Can you wrap some double stick tape on a stiff wire and get it down the "rabbit" hole?

Oh man, what a sad story!

I am about to about to take mine off to put bigger tapped holes in for bigger hoses.  Now I know to be extra careful.

Did you consider putting a stainless or copper pot scrubber in the box (maybe you already did)?

Do have the mesh screen at the oil pick-up? If so, maybe you can turn the crank pulley the other way to free up the nut so it can drop to the bottom of the case and just rest there.

DANG, Gordon! 

Maybe best to go Plan B. With all things considered, I think it provides higher probability of removing the offending nut (without sending it further into the bowels of the engine).

Best of luck, my brutha!

Tough luck Gordon! I woiuld start with plan A, you never know. Can't add anything else, other than hope you don't have to tear it all apart. Al

I really don't believe the old story about the apple.

I think it was something like this that led Isaac Newton to discover gravity.

Bill:  Nope, tried that.  Thought the vacuum cleaner mini-tube might work, but looks like it fell through already.  

Plan A is iffy, at best.  It all depends on how much clearance I need to get the pedestal off, so we'll see - others have teied this and failed because of the height of the cooling tower, although I have the shroud with the bump-out in the back that can be removed.  I'm tending to agree with Jim, though - Just pull it or I'll be screwing around and wasting hours on failed methods.  It could be out and on the floor in an hour and then get it on a stand to work on it.  On the stand, I can rotate the engine 360 degrees and maybe get the thing(ie) to drop down to the sump and then reach in with a wire or something and fish it out.  Right now, it's binding the crank when I turn it clockwise, so I know it's in there, just don't know where and I haven't turned it  the other way, thiinking it might be good to keep it on top of the crank - at least for now.  Further thought (and frustration) might move me in another direction.

So now the car is on jackstands and I'll drain the oil so maybe I can hear the nut when it falls (with my super-hearing, according to Grandson #3) but it's only a 10-24 so it won't make much noise.  Mike's idea is totally worth trying - rotate things the other way and see if I can get it to the sump, then go fish the damn thing out.  I was so pissed last night I didn't sleep for beans so I think I'll get the oil drained, call it a night and start messing with it tomorrow.  

It's always an adventure with these cars.......  

Gordon, if you need a hand pulling the engine and getting it on the stand give me a shout. I'm 2 hours away and I work for beer.

I'd love to come and give a hand, and I'll work for beer (_{and the plane flight}) as well. 

Man, that sucks!  One little nut and you have to pull the engine. 

Good luck Gordon.  Hope you get it out. 

Yikes!!!  I have been able to get the shroud off without pulling the engine (but it ain't easy), and have also been able to pull the alternator pedestal by just slightly repositioning the shroud.  That's sure easier than pulling the engine.  It must have been a very small nut to get through the vented plate under the pedestal.

Yup, a 10-24 nut is pretty small.   It doesn't take much in the right spot to bind up something mechanical.  But, it's gotta come out before it runs again, so there you are.  I WILL get this straightened out.  Just another bump in the road.

change oil, check sump plate?

Not that easy, Bob.....The nut is non-magnetic.

ANYONE could have used a regular, magnetic nut.  I had to use a stainless steel, non-magnetic one.  Nothing like making it harder than it needs to be - On purpose!

I expect that I'll have to remove the sump plate, then remove the deep sump just to get  a wire snake up in there to retrieve the damn thing.

So, for a motorhead, I guess that this is supposed to be better than actually driving the car?

NOT!

You CAN get the alternator and fan out without taking the shroud out.

Loosen the two nuts on each side of the shroud. Remove the alternator strap and wires. Remove the four screws that secure the alternator backing plate from the shroud.  You can lean the shroud back a bit... and pull the alternator up and back a bit. It's a bit like shuffling cards... where things come together at an angle and just slide into (or out of) place.

I've done it a multiple times. it can be done.

Man.

I'm really sorry, and I feel your pain.

When I was putting on the final touches of the twin-plug motor, I was building the sparkplug wire set (since you can't just buy one). The bottom plugs are accessed through little plates (about the size of a quarter) in the bottom of the rocker boxes (under the valve covers). The plates are secured by means of two very small socket head screws, which thread into the head between the valve-springs above and the pushrod tubes beside and down a bit.

While putting the cover back on #3, I lost one of the screws down a pushrod tube. I got that same sinking feeling you describe, when you know that something really routine has suddenly created the potential to require splitting the case.

What I did was to drain the oil, drop the sump-plate, and sweep the bottom of the case with a flexible magnet. After about 15 seconds, I came out with the screw. I looked at it, thanked the LORD, cleaned it up, laid it on the bench, and went inside for the night.

I know your nut isn't magnetic, but the principle remains. If this were me (and I've become something of a master at fixing my own self-inflicted gunshot woulds), I'd drain the oil first, and see if it washes to the bottom of the sump with the oil. If not, I'd strip the engine until the alternator stand is off. If you can't see it from the top, I'd put the sump plate back on, and put about a gallon of solvent (kerosene or something similar) down the oil fill hole. I'd put it in as fast as possible to possibly wash it to the bottom of the sump. I'd drain the crankcase again, drop the extended sump, and shake the heck out of it (the extended sump) over a clean towel to see if the nut comes out. If it didn't land there and come out, I'd run the probably try blowing pressurized air down the oil fill hole on top (close off everything but the hose with shop rags), and see if it blows out the bottom. I'd sweep the bottom of the crankcase with a piece of bent wire or something similar to try to bring it to the hole.

The idea with the solvent is to dilute the sticky oil that may be holding it somewhere in the case. It'd also be nice to flush the case with something to wash anything in there out the bottom.

I'd not pull the engine unless you've done all that. Pulling it would be a last resort, but I'll bet you can get it one way or another. I'm just sorry-- this isn't the kind of engine work that's fun.

Can't you just pull the motor (1/2 way off the studs) far enough to get the shroud off?

Bill:  If I can get it half way off the studs I might as well pull it right out.  It takes far longer to  get everything out of the way making ready to pull it out than it does to actually pull it.

Thanks, Stan - all good ideas that make sense.  Getting the deep sump off is job #1, then seeing if I can rotate the crank the other way and get it to drop into the engine sump.  Then I can get a wire or something in there to sweep around in the sump.  And I know what you mean about the stickiness of oil, and, of course, I use Brad Penn Green which is like running honey in there.  

OK, volunteer farming work is done for today and we have our biggest festival of the year tomorrow, our Harvest Home Festival.  This year we have 4 trebuchets (Pumpkin catapults) running so I hope to have photos or video to show you.  I'll get the sump drained and start my fishing expedition later today.

Stay tuned.

Success!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I GOT that little sucker!    

Just as I thought, it slipped through the louver plate and was resting on top of the Cam drive gear for the distributor.  MUSBJIM had it right - I pulled the engine and let it sit on the floor jack, then pulled the fan shroud and popped off the alternator stand and the louvered plate under it (along with what looked like a LOT of Blue RTV - What was I thinking????) and there sat that tiny nut.  When the engine was turned over gently, the nut got caught between the spiraled Disti gear teeth and the engine case.  

Reached in with a long hemostat ( a long surgical clamp - everyone has a few of those in their tool box, right?  They sell them at Carlisle! ) and lifted it right out!  The way the engine is designed, I don't believe there is a passage from that area down to the sump (I'll look tomorrow) so this was the only way I could have gotten it out.

I can not describe the felling of relief that passed over me when I got it out.

Here's where it sat, down under the oil filler stand - you can see the cam drive just below it:

And here's what it looks like compared to the filler's louvered plate - the nut is about 5/16" across:

But I GOT that little sucker!!!!!!!!!!!   

Just now, looking out on a beautiful, Tangerine sunset and hoping I'll get everything back together later this week, maybe at a slower pace.  Kathy's made a terrific-smelling Bison meatloaf (we can't eat beef) and looking forward to a peaceful night's sleep and a great Fall Festival tomorrow.  See ya!

https://newengland.com/event/harvest-home-festival/

Good on ya, Gordon!  All's well that ends well.

Yes!  Such good news, Gordon! 

You'll have to bring that nut to Carlisle, and it can become some sort of award (along with the Brass Thingy award) that is given out each year to some unfortunate - but resourceful - members.

Cheers!!!

I've been thinking about what a "Brass Thingie Award" might look like with the idea that I could come up with something for Carlisle 2017.  

This might just become part of it.

The more I wander aimlessly through life, bumping into stuff along the way, the more I think there is a reason for things like this.

Like finding out that spot on your X-ray is benign after all.

These things make your morning coffee taste a little better, they make sunsets a little rosier, and they make that drive down your favorite twisty road of a cool morning just a little bit sweeter.

Sleep well, Gordon.

Holy Crap! that's so cool you got it! I think we all cheered for you. Way to go Gordon.

I'm in process of changing my 550's alternator and I disconnected the carb throttle bar not knowing there was a tension spring inside the bar at each carb end. When disconnected it I heard that noise of something flying. Still did't know what it was then I saw a spring on the garage floor and figured where it came from. I said to myself god I'm lucky I found this and figured where it goes. Then that sinking feeling. Crap! there's one on the other side too. I thought, there's no way I'm going to find that one but I got real lucky as it was also on the floor of the garage on the other side of the car.

My Raby engine has a plastic louvered oil splash plate.  I'm thinking it's louvers are maybe a bit wider. There also was no gaskets the aluminum ones call for two gaskets one on each side.  Mine had some silicone type gasket goop. As soon as I disconnected my alternator stand I stuffed the hole with a clean rag to hopefully avoid a similar occurrence.   

Pete

Yes Gordon, we all know what a hemostat is. But most of the guys on here probably remember it being called it a roach clip.

Gordon- what a great relief. Sorry, I came in late on this tread. I was ready to look up schematics and cut-away of our engines and see what other options would be doable. But the core SOC's know these engines far better than I do.   

EXCELLENT news, Gordon! Now hopefully you'll get a good night's sleep! 

...and the next time " Plug your ALL the holes with paper towels " ..I learned the hard way too :~)

Glad you didn't have to tear it all apart, Gordon!

Well done Gordon......   We were ALL pulling for you....   

Thanks for the good thoughts, everyone!  I think I'll give it a rest today as I'm working the festival all day.  One of the Trebuchets was designed and built by the Mechanical Design team at Waters Associates to throw pumpkins across one of our fields.  This thing is over 30 feet tall to the top of the throwing arm and can handle 7-12 pound pumpkins!  It is mostly made of 2 X 8's and I'm hoping that they don't overstress it by trying to throw something too heavy, but they are about the nerdiest bunch of mechanical designers I've met and seem over-cautious and that's good.

About to get saddled up and head over to the "Barn" for a day of fun, so see you all later!

gn

I came into this thread via the ending post.  As I read backwards, skipping a few things here and there, I saw the picture of the hemostat with the doobie.  I kept reading backwards and thought Gordon had dropped a joint into his engine.  Bad X2.  You can afford to lose a nut, but not... 

Anyway, congrats Gordon.  I felt your relief and adrenalin rush.

What's all the Fuss ? Engine pulling is easy once you've done it enough times !....Bruce

Gordon Nichols posted:

.  One of the Trebuchets was designed and built by the Mechanical Design team at Waters Associates to throw pumpkins across one of our fields.  This thing is over 30 feet tall to the top of the throwing arm and can handle 7-12 pound pumpkins!  It is mostly made of 2 X 8's and I'm hoping that they don't overstress it by trying to throw something too heavy, but they are about the nerdiest bunch of mechanical designers I've met and seem over-cautious and that's good.

 

Trebuchets that throw pumpkins would be wicked! We're gonna need pics, Gordon. I hope you see this before all the fun is over...

craig posted:

I came into this thread via the ending post.  As I read backwards, skipping a few things here and there, I saw the picture of the hemostat with the doobie.  I kept reading backwards and thought Gordon had dropped a joint into his engine.  Bad X2.  You can afford to lose a nut, but not... 

Anyway, congrats Gordon.  I felt your relief and adrenalin rush.

I had a freshly rolled one fall down my defroster vent on my 61 bus once...it was sad!