Soob Conversion progress

I got a chance to slide the Soob under the rear bumper and while the engine is sitting about 1" too low in the picture, all looks very promising size wise. I can't believe the useable space on the firewall, plenty of space for the electronic ignition bits. The coolant reservoir isn't as big as it looks. You can't see it very well (black as is the firewall) but the heater bilge blower is just to the right of the reservoir. Still waiting for the Kennedy adapter and exhaust header system. There'd be room to add a couple of baggage bays left and right but I've got to think about weight and you know who's shopping habits.

Nice

that aircleaner looks tiny for a turbo, surely there is something better

There is no turbo, Bob. That's a standard air cleaner for a Weber progressive 32/36 carb. I only used it because I know how to jet it and it was sitting here on the shelf anyway. I'm starting slow with this engine, the internals are stock. It'd probably do well with a pair of Kads or Webers too. With a single carb, the manifold can be adjusted later for twin carbs. You can't reverse that process though.

Does this weber have an idle circuit and a choke? Would make life alot easier if it did.

2.5?

angela

It has both, Angela. The choke is electric. I may change out the choke to manual though if it proves necessary. When this Weber was previously run on my type 1 1915 engine, it was sitting on a Scat manifold which had hot exhaust air running through under the carb base. It did make the manifold warm to the touch. This iteration has no heat going to it and may become an ice machine. We'll cross that bridge if it happens. This engine is a 1995 EJ22. The 2.5 litre engine is wider overall and would not fit between the frame rails of my older IM. Here's a link to the ignition system. Can't believe how simple it is. http://www.autosportlabs.net/Megajolt_Lite_Jr.

David: Only a word of caution from experience with a progressive carburetor like yours. I had installed a dual throat progressive carb on a Gazelle, it was a big change over from the single I had started with. I let the car sit in the garage for nearly six months before taking it for a run. When I tried starting it, I heard it back fire through the carburetor and before I could push the blazing car out of the garage, the garage was filled with black smoke and I nearly passed out. I ran into the house and grab my cordless phone and called 911 then ran back outside to try to douse the fire with a garden hose. The Fire trucks pulled up and put out the fire. The Gazelle's rear end was melted and there was soot inside the house coating the walls. Luckily there there was no structural damage but did I ever hear a ration of $hit from the wife. It seems that the long sitting period must have evaporated the fuel in the carb's float chamber and caused it to stay at the bottom when I tried starting it, adding to the problem was the electric fuel pump that just kept feeding fuel before I had a chance to turn off the ignition.

Wow...quite the story and good advice. We'll be sure to have an extinguisher on hand. I had a surprise fire once when messing with an engine. I removed the gascolator ( fuel filter ) sump from the firewall which was full of fuel. Inadvertently, I contacted the live side of the master switch. The spark made me jump and spill the fuel as it simultaneously lit the fire. Luckily, the steel garage door was open and right above the fire so it acted like a firewall. I got the fire out quickly, then sat down and had quite a talk with myself after that close call.

Cant just tee into the hot water line to provide intake manifold heat ??

I just LOVE saying "hot water line" on a 95% aircooled site !!

You sure could, but there's no water jacket on the intake manifold to send it to. There's an old trick we used on 1/2 VW aircraft engines years ago and that was to wrap copper oil line w/ epoxy as required around the intake manifold for manifold heat. It cooled the oil too. We'll see if we need it first. The tranny/engine adapter plate finally got shipped this week so the engine should go in on the 26th of Nov. Finished the heater box today. Everything else is about ready to fire so we'll be making noise soon.

FYI but you probaby already know, the return water manifold sitting under the intake manifold can be reversed so the the outlet points towards your fire wall. Additionally, I believe a Lexus thermostat housing can be used it too points the hose end towards the firewall.

Thanks for that, Larry. I've left the coolant manifold in the stock orientation as my rad is mounted athwartship just ahead of the rear bumper. It measures 11" x 32" as is from a Jeep Cherokee so the stat housing and coolant manifold point in a convenient direction as is. The rad's fitted with a puller fan and we're starting with a 180 deg stat. We'll see how this simple setup works and go from there.

The Kennedy adapter kit arrived today and took less than an hour to install on the motor. It's a beautiful piece of work and a bargain at the $440 price which includes the adapter and a custom made flywheel which is basically a one piece lathe turned item with a VW type 1 clutch area and a center area that bolts to the Soob crank. It's dished a bit deeper also to make up the space of the adapter plate itself. I bought a Stage 1 clutch package at the same time. Couple of pics here : http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee361/beezered1/ couldn't upload to this site this time. Happy Turkey day, Y'all.

Good for you David. I am following this with interest...let me know if you need any Megajolt help, I am pretty good with that stuff, got it on my Raby 2165. I am DannyP over there, Brent and Kelly Picasso are great people to work with :-).

Thanks for that, Daniel. It's noon here Thursday and I just got the engine installed...a pretty nice fit really. I've got a buddy coming over Saturday and he'll help me put the finishing touches on the details to make it run. We should be able to fire it up then. Meantime I'll be connecting up the intake, rad hoses etc. My Megajolt module won't be here till next week so we'll run it on the limp home mode for starters and see how it all comes together. I'm a total klutz with computers so I may call on you to help fine tune that module. Enjoy your holiday.

hi David, looks like a great project..... what are your intentions regards radiator cooling placement etc.. I found a Toyota Hi Ace...late model slipped into the front nicely
Regards Bill

Giday, Bill. Thanks for that. I'm mounting a Jeep Cherokee rad, 11" x 32" across the back under the rear bumper with bottom end canted forward and up a bit with a puller fan on one end to start with. My battery is up front in the well and I'm trying to avoid reclocating it. We'll see how that works first.

David - If you find you must relocate the battery, get an Oddysey gel-cell. I have one and it is small enough to be carried in one hand. It ways around 10-15 lbs, and can be mounted in any orientation except inverted. It doesn't leak, and could even be mounted in the interior. Heck, as small as it is you might be able to leave it up front. I can shoot you a picture in a couple of days when I get home, if you want. Mike McKelvey has one and should have a picture of his ultra-clean installation in his gallery.

Any pics of the engine mounts?

~WB

Not sure if you'd call these engine mounts Bill, but take a look here:
http://s1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee361/beezered1/ and you'll see the Kennedy adapter plate. The plate gets bolted to the engine,the clutch pack gets installed and then the plate gets bolted to the VW bellhousing just like you'd install your VW engine.

I can just see Bill's cognitive wheels turning...


mmmmmmmm.......Sooby!

Ya think Joannie would notice here engine missing from the Impreza?

Here is the battery Lane mentioned.

Dave, your gonna need some back up tires if your car jumps off the line like this. Might need to re-gear your tranny.

I saw the adapter plate. Looks like a great piece, but was wondering what kind of support you made for under the other end(under the crank pulley end).

I gotcha, Bill. Nothing planned for the rear end. I checked a lot of sites and haven't seen that any are in use on a Type I. The Westfalia is a common Soob conversion and they do use an aux mount. The Soob mounts are fairly close to the front end anyway but I'm always open to suggestions. If you have or know of any, please pipe up. ( I need all the help I can get....)

Ja! IIRC, Pete Venuti from MA. got a coach roadster from IM and neatly tucked a Soob engine in. Haven't found any pics yet, but he had a cradle mount that spanned between the rear frame tubes. I looked at it closely and liked the form and function of it. Looked like 1x1 tube, angle cut down from each side with a piece level under the engine with two rubber mounts. It was one piece affair that bolted to the side frame rails. Not sure if Henry made the mount for Pete.
Anybody with pics of Pete's motor chime in!

~WB

http://www.smallcar.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=29789

Pete knows the details but I think this is the mount. Its being used on my car too.

Yeah looks like it. All that's missing are the tubes that extend out to the frame side rails on each side.

I see what you're getting at lads. My Soob is an older (1995) 2.2 litre and has no such rear mount setups as in the picture shown. I have seen pics of these older engines going into a VW van with somewhat of a transverse type support which swings aft a bit on each side. I checked and could fab up a similar rear mount system as shown in the pictures but if my engine type didn't have one in the first place, I won't start with one right away.

So at this point, the 2.2 will mount and hang from the transaxle just like a VW engine does, yes?

~WB

It looks like that to me, Bill.

I can just see Bill's cognitive wheels turning...


mmmmmmmm.......Sooby!

Marty is correct that mount from small car that he posted is what we are both using on the engine. It bolts along either side of the oil pan and the cross member hangs off the end just under the pulleys. On the cross member you install four small rubber mounts(vanagon part) that isolate the bracket that bolts to my side rails.

Here is a photo not the best as it doesn

David--What is the weight difference between a Type I and your Suby?

Jack, That's a good question that's tough to answer. Generally speaking, a 2.5 turbo will add about 100-120 lbs, including radiator and water. Exact numbers are tough, since type 1 and Subi weights vary, swaps sometimes use different trannys, radiators are put in different spots, with different lengths of hose, etc.

Part of the weight gain is used to offset the imbalance of rear-mounted engine cars with most rads toward the front.

There are many factors to consider in an engine swap (cost, reliability, parts availability, wiring harness, ecu remapping, power gain in torque and hp, mileage, etc), but, from my perspective, weight increase is not a major consideration.

I've done lots of research on the subject. Seat-of-the-pants analysis is that you gain at least 1 hp for each added lb of weight. You can get very reliable 260 hp without extreme mods, unheard of for aircooled. Add hot water heat, efficient air con, decent mileage, and my child bride of 44 years is now happy to be a right-seater again.

There are lots of sites that deal with Subi swaps, including Vanagons, aircraft, VW's, etc. Some VW sites also have a separate blog about conversions. If Jake's doing research on the subject, you know it's got potential.

Jim---at some point--and it's already starting--the Subaru engine is gonna be the standard. So many advantages vs. aircooled. Right now I am still thrilled with my type IV and do feel that this will be my car for life but you never know. Jake and I have been talking about his new venture and it's very esciting, plus completely bypasses the chinese stuff that we are seeing now. At least my engine is 100% German parts with the quality they are famous for.

I asked about the weight of a Subaru vs a TypeI because I read that the Suby can hang from the tranny "just like a Type I". I see a beautifully constructed brace in Marty's car which seems preferable
to just dangling the engine "out there". I have the stainless steel
CSP brace on mine and it works to perfection. Surely no one would just hang a Suby from the tranny would they? The torque from that engine would really twist the engine/tranny combo without a brace, wouldn't it?

I wonder if Subaru will ever sell a crate engine? At present they all seem to be sourced from low mileage (hopefully) wrecked Subaru's.

It's still a boxer engine --that takes care of tradition for me!

JIm wrote: "Add hot water heat, efficient air con, decent mileage, and my child bride of 44 years is now happy to be a right-seater again."

Of course, tooling her around Tropical Fiji in a Speedster with the A/C on doesn't hurt, either.

You know, JIm.......You could adopt us. We could work for food. We could even bring Pearl!

No real need for a Subbie crate engines as Japan has such strict vehicle inspections system that old cars there are rare! They end up scrapped around year 6. Surprised US govt hasn't thought of same concept as a job stimulus package here. Read NY Times article below. What a boost it would be to car manufacturers, repair shops and inspection stations. Less emissions and faulty equipment accidents to boot.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/09/12/world/why-the-cars-in-japan-look-just-like-new.html

Hi Gordon,

Yes, we live and work in a spectacularly beautiful place. We came here to "retire" 10 years ago, ended up building an eco resort and dive shop, and have never worked harder. 100 hour work weeks are pretty common. The car will live in California. Fiji is a right hand drive country. We are in the process of building a "granny" unit at our son's house in Santa Cruz.

We live on Taveuni, Fiji's third largest island, which is only 24 miles long, with about 15 miles of paved road. Within the next few years, we hope to start spending half of our time in California with our son, daughter-in-law, and two grandkids.

If I count high school jobs, I've been in the work force for over 50 years, and it's all invested here. No guts, no glory, eh? Life is good, and I'm a lucky guy. I do notice, however, that the harder I work, the luckier I get.