Sorry, SAS guys.........

http://www.wate.com/Global/story.asp?s=7845917

WOW
i would want my money back

Snappy detective work. The link is to a story that appeared online six months ago. Those of us that own or are waiting for an SAS car are well aware that Steve is, to say the least, not speedy. The waiting time is legendary. And all present and future SAS owners that I

wow
Paul, i can understand your concerns regarding this thread as much as I did the JPS thread. But these are criminal charges involving an arrest and also I would assume a trial. I would assume you are not arrested unless the DA is pretty sure he has a case and is going for a conviction. Could be wrong but from all the attorneys I know they would be going for a win. I hope I am wrong

The first tipoff on this article comes in the first paragraph concerning their lengthy investigation. If I asked to come and tour your shop for about and hour and talk custom cars, does that strike you as a lengthy investigation? Pretty much the same scenario for the DA's representative.

I do find it interesting that six months later, it is the SAS lawyers that are pushing the agenda. As Paul correctly states, there are usually two sides to most stories. My advice to the bloggers on this forum is that if you sign a contract for a custom built car, you had best read and understand the contractual terms and specifications.

IMO, this is much ado about nothing and nothing will come of it. BTW, the SAS Creme Brule coupe was delivered in May 2008 and made an appearance at Carlisle.

charles
your baby is awesome, steve made an incredible car
but i would think the average person would think that the delivery of other peoples vehicles will not occur if this business is interrupted with only two builders. trials are lengthy and costly. is this trial not taking place september of this year. if so and i was involved with this trial i would need two things cash and time. my own stupid two cents.

I believe there is some type of hearing or trial later this month on the civil side. As best I can tell, I would not expect this to be a lengthy process as not much compelling evidence has been presented by the complainants, who in many cases cooked their own goose by making numerous changes to the contract based on the latest SEMA gadget. If the civil case falls apart, the criminal implications are likely to disappear as well. It is my understanding that it is the DA's office that has been dragging its feet. Does that tell you something?

I also like to think that the 'presumption of innocence' remains in tact in this country. I can tell you that Steve and Tom and their several subcontractors are at work daily making progress on new SAS deliveries. IMO, the SAS guys will be just fine.

charles
that is good to hear
as musbejim would say
peace on

Charles
what r u workin on it must be 3am there and i am working on a tax return here :)

Gerd, Nothing particular - just a product of the aging process. Nap during the day; surf (the Internet) all night. I just couldn't find a good movie this morning.

Hey Paul,
I didn't post the article for any other reason than I felt it was interesting and related to this site.
I'm familiar with Steve's abilities at turning out great cars. I had the privilege of seeing Michael Guthrie's beautiful fat boy cab at Morro Bay. I was impressed how it handles as Michael was able to keep up with Eddie and I. I'm sure if his wife wasn't in the car with him, Mike would have passed the two of us with that beast.
I know Steve builds a great car but I'm not clear on his business practices. If he is asking for a substantial deposit (more than 10% of total build cost) and receiving additional money without meeting a progress schedule then I would say his business model is suspect. If that's not the case and the majority of his customers are happy then this trial won't amount to much.
I'm looking forward to meeting you and seeing your car soon.
Forget Foster's, let's meet up at the Auburn Brewery and celebrate over a pint of stout. My treat!

You've got a deal, Terry. I'll shoot you an e-mail when I'm on the road. PR

I'm at the end of the SAS queue and not worried yet. I read this "cutting edge investigating article" before I gave a deposit. SAS may be guilty of major delays but are certainly not thieves.

I'm sure it must be difficult to build cars with suits, court appearances, and attorneys to deal with. Hopefully, this will be resolved soon so SAS can devote its time to building.

There is often a difference between the facts and the truth. Time will tell.

All this talk about two sides to a story, and the difference between fact and truth. The only problem I see in this is you guys are accepting the word of one guy, the accused, as the truth. Now it may turn out that he is in fact telling the truth, but that's a pretty big gamble. I really hope all us naysayers turn out to be the ones that are wrong on this one, but if it was me, I'd be really nervous!

On the plus side, with all the negative attention he is getting, it's in his best interest to be on his best car-building behavior if he hopes to survive the court stuff, or survive period.

Yikes.

Yes they do produce great cars when... they get built. Both Hoss's car and the coupe at Carlisle are two wonderful representations.
I posted this information the other day under the Newbies section ... I also thought it would be of interest however, there were those that felt that I was being biased for posting this public news story.
I certainly hope that future buyers don't get burned and the proprietor does infact, make ammends with all parties. However I also feel for the previous clients that have not received zip for their monies. When the reporter questioned the status of the many cars that wet undelivered the response was ..."Oh those cars were sold off". This will be an interesting tale to follow.

I Love this site, and the people of course....But to be honest, I think I would have a hard time handing this guy thousands of dollars knowing the history....and to keep defending him.....
But that's me

drclock: I dont think you were being biased and are only expressing your opinion. It's only that I dont understand why there's such a concern over a car builder that didn't build their car and hasn't made actual contact with the builder. Maybe I have a different stance about commenting on a builder or his product when I dont have one made by him. The comments I prefer to believe are those made by owners of said vehicle and how he has been treated by the builder. Each builder may or may not have had issues and buyers may or may not have had issues with the car or the builder. I've read good comments as well as bad about quality and service. I have, as well as other SAS buyers, looked into the allegations and I even contacted city, county, and state's attorneys and found no criminal case being filed. So much for the NEWS MEDIA always reporting the truth or only part of it. It seems that the law suits were brought about by fear that SAW would go bankrupt and the buyers wanted to protect their investments. The charges of theft were exaggerated and the only issue that remains is the completion or sale of a couple of unfinished cars (not 356s). Now if a SAS buyer wishes to tear into SAS or Steve Lawling I would be more than glad to hear about it. Now can we please bury this horse? It's starting to smell and causing me to think less about some of my fellow SOC members. By the way check and see which builders are contributing members of these site. Now peace out...

HEY VINCE F OFF
WE DONT LIKE U :)

Since this story first came out in Feb 2008, I've seen cars delivered to Mike Guthrie and Charles Gardner and Paul Robins will be getting his speedster in short order.
The cars involved in this story are all street rods, not 356's. The bottom has dropped out of the street rod pricing run-up of the past few years- just watch Barrett-Jackson on TV and see how anemic some of the bidding is these days. Some of these cutomers might be using the slow build times as a way to get out of their contracts. Some may have even contributed to the dleays with numerous changes in the build. We are seeing that in the high-end housing our company is building on Maui. These guys are frantically looking for loopholes so they don't have to take posession of a $ 3 million condo that they can't even sell for $ 2 million in today's sluggish collapsed market. I don't find it hard to believe that some of these street rod cutomers would resort to anything to get their money back, including duping a politically expedient DA into filing sensational charges.

Vince: I still like you bro... You might be dinky dou but you still numba one GI. Just got my Vietnam Vet license plate frame from Parris Island's Marine Museum.

NOLAN I CAN APPRECIATE HOW YOU SPEAK. BUT FROM MY CPA BACKGROUND I WOULD AGREE WITH VINCE. THE AUDITOR IN ME IS SUSPECT AS TO WHETHER SOMEONES CASH IS GOING TO FINISH SOMEONE ELSES CAR FROM A COUPLE YEARS BACK. IT HAS A LOT OF PYRAMID SCAM APPEARANCES.
HOPE I AM WRONG THOUGH

Sorry Gerd, I just put my shovel away and place a headstone over the horse's grave. Flowers will be appreciated.

I'm trying to scrape up enough to by me a used speedy, and I don't even care who built it.....I want to keep my ghia, so selling it is not an option.
So I am amazed how some of you just hand over thousands of dollars for something you may not see in a year or more, and to then find out the guy has charges against him, true or not, it has to make you think real hard, and of course to do it knowing in advance about the charges is even worse. Nobody builds a car that good in my book...
Nolan, Thanks, we are still Bro's, I just won't hand over my finances to you in the near future....

Nolan - I believe you meant to say Vince was BEAUCOUP dinky dou!!

Bwaaaaaaaa Haaaaaa Haa! WOW I can't believe that its been almost 40 years since SEA for me! YIKES I'm getting old!!

Jimbo, how I miss the smell of Nuk Ma in the morning, smells like $hit!

I agree with Gerd- it appears new customers supply money to finish other cars that are in the early stages of completion.

over 40 for me

VINCE WERE U IN WW1?

Maybe in a previous life....

Hmmm! Why does analyzing a manufacturer's business acumen or business practice over the internet by a person in Arizona with a CPA background remind me of Senator/Dr. Bill Frist analyzing Terry Schiavo from a video tape?

HEY VINCE IN THAT PRIOR LIFE WERE YOU A CPA FROM ARIZONA?

NEVER....I put CPA's just slightly above a Lawyer and below a used car salesmen.....

BBBWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !

I am an attorney, sorry Vince. The news of an indictment against Mr. Lawing is very worrisome for me. I was thinking of contracting with him for a 356 in the future, but I really cannot bring myself to do that now.

You have to remember that according to the news story the indictment came from the grand jury. That means a prosecutor presented evidence of crimes to an assembly of regular citizens. The regular citizens of the grand jury are told the elements of the crime and then they look at the prosecutor's evidence. Finally, the grand jury gives the prosecutor the indictment if the evidence presented matches up with the elements of a crime.

All in all Mr. Lawing deserves his day in court. Obviously he does produce some great stuff - albeit slowly. I will be very curious to see how this one shakes out, and I will refrain from any comment that may be hurtful towards him.

Aside from the possible criminality, this outfit sounds a lot like a former employer of mine in the aviation business. The company was under-capitalized, and after a time new sales revenues were indeed going to fulfill old orders. We were limping along this way while wooing investors. One guy decided to panic and contacted Lycoming about his fears of not getting the $30K engine he had paid for. Lycoming, hearing this, decided to rescind the credit we had for an engine we had previously received and applied Mr. Panic's money to the existing balance and refused to deliver another engine without another $30K. And that was the end of the company.
It could very well be that SAS has a terrific product and has every intention of filling every order. It could also be that they are this close to financial collapse. One little thing like a called note or unpaid supplier account, or and unpaid tax installment, could doom the whole operation. I hope they continue to plug away and all of you faithful enough to put down a deposit are rewarded with a wonderful car. You should probably avoid paying any more until you see substantial progress on your build. Probably ought to figure a way to buy and keep unencumbered your engine also. It would be bad if you bought a motor only to have it seized from SAS's shop by a creditor with better attorneys than you can afford.

If TN is anything like RI, a Grand Jury would indict a ham sandwich. This post has ended up indicting the man, putting him on trial and then convicting him. You'd think by reading this post that most of the posters were prosecuting attorneys, forensic accountants, judges and a jury of his peers with FULL knowledge of the facts. What a joke! What's the next thing we can set on fire? Talk about mob psychology.

Sorry David, nothing personal, a lot of bad ones make it very difficult for the few good ones.....
You obviously have above average intelligence, not to want to do business with someone under indictment.....
He is not the only one who is able to produce a fine product, there are many choices

gee,

I didn't know lawyers ACTUALLY show up in court rooms before real judges. I thought that just happenned on TV

tim