Spark plug question

Unfortunately, Lane-- nothing's standard with the heads. I use 12 mm 3/4 reach plugs, and they take an 18 mm deep-well socket. It's not a "standard" spark-plug socket size.

Giday, Lane. My NGK plugs on the shelf sez use a 13/16" plug socket. I checked and it fits. Just checked again and 18mm is smaller than 13/16".

You run a Subaru engine, Dave. Apples/oranges.

Lane, maybe Bill Demeter can chime in.  I know that it's a special plug socket.  If I remember right (doubtful), it was thin walls and is deeper.  I just went poking around and found this http://www.justanswer.com/clas...e-replace-spark.html 

Nothing special there, Lane.  Just a plain old 13/16" by 1-1/2" deep socket with a rubber puller inside.  I had to go out and take a look to remember if it was metric or something wierd, but it's just a standard, English, S-K plug socket.

 

If you're having troubles getting it onto the plug, try removing the rubber puller from the inside of the socket.  Just remember to replace the puller before the plug is totally unscrewed or you'll be fishing around for it where you can't see it.

 

Bill Demeter had a plug socket that accepted a swivel-end extension which, he claimed, made it easier to get the socket down in there to get it onto the plug, rather than using a universal adapter.  I've never used the swivel-socket, but am intrigued by anything that might make this process easier.  I hardly ever mess with Pearl's plugs but have changed plugs on other cars and it usually takes a selection/combination of 2", 4", or 6" extensions and maybe a universal joint or two to get something that works on each plug - and they all seem to require something different.  

 

I've often had to remove the rubber puller inside of the socket in order to get the socket on the plug in the first place.  Try that.

Right, Stan but I only mention it becacuse I thought those plugs were out of my defunct 1915. I'm sure not trying to confuse things, but I went back out to the garage and found an old bag of four Bosch plugs with RO 282 on the porcelain and they have W8 AC and Brazil stamped on the metal part. Still fits the 13/16th sockect. Sorry if I've added any confusion.

No cornfusion here, David.........Porsche/VW only used one plug size and that fit a 13/16" socket. Other manufacturers used the skinny profile plugs (Ford was a big user of the smaller plugs), usually because of head or exhaust manifold clearance issues but I've never sen them on a VW product.  Maybe Porsche used the slim-profile plugs - I'm just not aware of it.

Head porters often use 12 mm plug threads to leave some meat after installing larger valves, as this is where cracks often form. If you've got a head that's been pushed a bit, it may (probably) have a smaller thread plug, and therefore the "standard" spark-plug socket won't work.

 

Really.

So..antiseize or not ?

NGK says "no". I don't use it, but I doubt it hurts. They're worried about twisting off 8 or 10 mm plugs.

sometimes ive had to use a 1/4 extension, with adapter from ratchet to 1/4 then from 1/4 up to 3/8 for the socket. bill

Pretty sure Lane's heads are CB, and not stock at all. Lane, do you know what plugs are in there? They should be specified in your engine sheet info from CB. If they are 12mm thread NGKs, like mine, they are 18mm and take a thin wall deep socket. I don't worry about the rubber insert in the special spark plug socket.

Perhaps Gordon will believe you, Danny.

Anti-seize insulates the plug from the head causing heat dissipation issues and poor plug performance due to plug running cold. That said I use a tiny bit on plug thread and run them in on my Volvo (292K) and my 911 with no issues with regard to performance that I would notice. The issue of heat dissipation for me is a small price to pay to prevent temper dissipation over a stripped head.

Michael

The heads are CB 044's and I have tried a 13/16" socket, but it feels as if it's too large.  Obviously this is done by feel as there is no way to really see what's going on.  I have a small mechanic's mirror that I will try today, but I am not sure if that will help.  Keep those ideas coming folks.  Eventually I'll get a plug out.

I've read that some use Milk of Magnesia. If nothing else that should cure its upset stomach.

Funny, Doug!

 

http://www.aircooledtech.com/044_upgrade/

 

Lane, if you have 044 heads, you have small spark plugs. My heads use NGK motorcycle plugs, which use the 18mm socket. Go to Sears and buy one, geez, be done with it already!

 

And also, if you got a turn-key CB 1915, here are the specs, which CLEARLY shows 044 heads:

http://www.cbperformance.com/S...lts.asp?Cat=138#1915

 

Lane, I have CB044 heads and the spark plugs are 12mm thread and require a 18mm (11/16") deep socket with 3/4" reach, just like Danny said. -- Syl

I said that in the second post of this thread. It's an 18 mm socket. Really. Honest.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/for...o-t--t-482960--.html

Look a couple of lines down

Sounds like we have a quorum on 18mm.  Stan, I guess I just missed your post somehow.  Now what would be the recommended gap?

What's your ignition system? Coil? CDI box or no?

Unless you have a "High Energy" after market dizzy and ignition controler, You can use .028 / .032 as a plug gap....  Works well with Bosch and that C.B. Perf unit you have....

I switched to a Pertronix Flamethrower II system a couple of years back.  It came with a different coil and is supposed to be higher power.  That would mean a slightly larger gap, right?

If you wanted to, you probably could run a slightly bigger gap, but .030 would be fine.

Picked up an 18mm deep well socket and a set of spark plug boot pliers at lunch.  I'll try 'em out when I get home.

Those boot pliers - Do they fit Wellingtons or are they special for German boots?

Dunno.  These boots are from Pertronix.  They use an unusual looking leather IMHO.

The hell with the boots, Lane! Did you get the plugs out or not??

 

0.030" is fine.

Got one of 'em out (#4).  I think #2 will also be easy, but #1 and #3 are going to be a bee-atch (beeyotch?) unless I remove the carbs.  I've gotten pretty proficient at doing that, and it might be easier than trying get the plugs out with the carbs in.  Give me a chance to give 'em (the carsb) a good cleaning while they're out.  IIRC, the plugs are NGK D6EA.  The one tip looks slightly eroded, but clean.  Probably replace them with the same unless someone has a better idea.

See how a 2" extension and "U" joint work....Or, if you can find one, a short extension with a "swivel" type square end...  ( drive end is ground to allow socket to pivot. )

Lane-

 

That's a pretty aggressive way to gain access to those plugs, sir. Do you re-sync the carbs after you take them off? I think those plugs will end up taking you the better [art of a day to change if you do it like that.

 

Just take the tin off above the valve covers. You'll have great access to the plugs.

Guys, take note of what Leon said; instead of a regular bulky "u" joint, a swivel or "wobble" joint- http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=hand&item_ID=642329&group_ID=674830&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog and short extension on the ratchet makes changing plugs much easier. Cut down the spark plug socket 1/2" (don't forget to shorten the rubber holder as well), and (depending on the manifolds) rounding off the head of the socket can help also, again, depending on how bulky the manifolds are. With the right tools and a little practice you should be able to change plugs without pulling carb/manifold assemblies. And as Stan said, every time you disturb the carbs and linkage you have to make sure they're sinced properly again, so it's worth the trouble... Al

I wouldn't pull the manifolds, but pulling the carbs is a snap.  Maybe it's because the Beck has more room to work, and the CSP bell-crank linkage just pops right off, but I can get a carb off in 5 minutes, max.  I don't change the adjustments when I do that, but I check the airflow anyway.  So far, no changes needed.

 

That said, I'll try it with them on as I need to know how to do it.

I love Snap-On stuff. I own almost none of it, as I can't seem to hold on to a hand-tool for more than about 30 seconds or so before I leave it laying on a bumper, or in the grass, or in one of about 15,000 other places that will ruin beautiful tool. My theory on screwdrivers is that if I leave enough of them laying around, eventually everywhere I go will have one.

 

For chronic tool losers like me, Harbor Freight sells "wobble" extensions similar (in a "Made with Pride in East-Asia" kind of way) to the nice one Al posted the link to in a 2-piece set for $3. A man like Lane could buy a set, get a cup of joe from Micky D's, and get a couple pennies back from his fiver. He could (hypothetically, of course) mail 'em out to me as compensation for all the free advice he's been getting here.

 

The Harbor Freight version that fits Lane's shiny new 3/8 drive 18 mm deep-well actually uses a 1/4" ratchet, making it even easier to fit your entire hand back in the 1-3 hidey-hole. You'll have #1 and #3 out faster than you can say, "I don't know why I ever considered taking off my carburetors."

 

Don't do it. Step away from the carbs, Lane.

 

I'm still advocating for removing the tin above your valve-covers if you're having an issue getting to the plugs. I know I've said it before... but since I talked about the 18 mm socket apx. 450 posts before Lane went out and bought one, I thought I'd just say it again. Ixnay on the arbscay.

 

Psst. Take off the tin.

You have far more room back there than any of us have on our CMC's and I have never needed to pull a carb off to get any/all of the plugs out. (are you seriously considering doing that??)  

 

I have a Snap-On 3/8" universal that I put on the end of either a 2" or 6" long ratchet extension (depending on plug location) with a plug socket on the end of the universal and can get all of the plugs out and changed with new ones in about 30 minutes - including setting the gaps.  The "Wobble" extensions, though, are the bomb.  My brother had a bunch of them and loved them.  I, on the other hand, have not yet become that enlightened and prefer to "tough it out."

 

Just get in there, contort the hell out of your body to get the socket on and spin 'em out......

Ok, ok, I'll leave the carbs alone - maybe.  I think they're due for a cleaning, but I'll do the plugs first.  I seem to recall some of y'all recommending a particular NGK plug on another thread.  Something like "W8AP", IIRC.  Any reason to choose that over what Pat Downs had in there?

I pulled my plugs once for winter fogging...never again.  My friend who stored my car was an old VW guy (not Bill) & told me that I had to hug the engine to get at the front plugs.  Sounds crazy, but that posture worked.  It also helps to get the battery out of the way on Becks.

"Hugging the engine" actually works.

 

It's just geting harder as I get older (the last time I just fell asleep).

 

W8AP is a platinum plug, and is what I am running.  They're good for about 100,000 miles and, if you have a coil putting out over 40K volts you can open them up to .035" - .040" and they're fine with that.  40K or under just set them at .030" - .035"

 

Pearl likes Bosch plugs.  Don't know why, she just does and I've always run Bosch in AC VW engines with very good luck.  I always ran NGK's on my trail bikes 40 years ago and they were the best for that (Greeves, Yamaha and Bultaco).  I guess it's whatever floats your boat.