Spark plug question

Downs runs a little "cold" for around town light foots....   Great for highway and contests of speed....Says the officer...  

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Got 3 of them out without incident, not even needing a swivel socket.  #1 is impossible, however.  It seems that the spark plug hole tin that covers cylinders #1 & #2 is misaligned and will not allow the socket to fit on the plug.  Gordon says I will probably need to open it up with a Dremel or a file.  I was thinking explosives, but he's usually right.  Needless to say, that carb, and probably the intake manifold, will have to come off. 

Lane, what if you just remove the tin screws? Then move the tin enough to swap the plug. Then re-install the screws. No big deal.

As far as replacement plugs, put in new of what you took out. I have 27K on NGKs, my engine loves them, Jake spec'd them, and they are EASY to get at bike shops. How many miles do you have so far Lane? Why mess with success?

Gordon's W8 won't fit your engine, they are 14mm thread. Stick with what Pat put in there. 

I thought of the "loosen and move the tin" idea after posting.  I'll give it a try.  By that point I was pretty much done with it for last night.

Psst. The tin, man. TAKE OFF THE TIN!

Hey Lane, are you getting platinum plugs?  I hear there are new (read more expensive) iridium plugs.  I wonder if there is any real benefit to either. 

The benefit, so I'm told, is a longer service life.  I'm considering it, but NGK's platinum or iridium plugs all have resistors, while the ones in the car do not.  Given that I have a great deal of respect for Pat Downs' choices, I'll probably just replace them with more of the same.

Stan - Taking off the tin appears to be a major undertaking including removal of the shroud (and alternator, etc.).  I'll check it out this evening, but it looks painful.

The benefit of the newer generations of plugs is that they take less energy (weaker spark) to fire, and so they "last" longer. It's said by some that a weaker spark doesn't always create a complete burn, and is not the best for maximum power. I would think it would be counter productive to use a higher energy coil and/or an add-on ignition box for more spark and then install easier firing plugs...Al

I'm running a Pertronix Flamethrower II ignition system with the associated high-energy coil.  That's an upgrade from the original Bosch 009 with Pertronix module.  If you have suggestions as to which way I should go (colder/hotter), please let me know.

Stan - We may be talking about different pieces of the tin.  The piece blocking the socket is the one over the cylinders that the intake manifold passes through and the shroud sits on.  Is that the one you mean?

Lane-

We are talking about apples and oranges. I know what piece of tin you are talking about-- I'm not talking about the cylinder tin. I'm talking about the enclosing tin-- the piece that Cary puts in ABOVE the valve covers, that attaches to the frame of the car (not to the engine). If you jack up your car, take off your passenger wheel, drop that piece of tin, sit on a stool, and look straight in-- you'll see the whole world in front of you. The #1 plug will be no more than 12" in front of your nose, no obstructions, and your hand should easily fit anywhere you want it to. You can bend the offending cylinder tin out of the way, but you won't have to-- your 18 mm deepwell socket will fit right on with a bit 'o persuasion, and you'll have the plug in your hand in a mater of minutes.

Don't take anything off the engine. Not the carbs, not the manifold, not the alternator, not the cylinder tin, not anything... until you take that piece of tin off.

Do it for the children. Do it for your country. Do it for freedom. Whatever reason you need to have to do it, just do it.

I wouldn't have to even take that piece of tin off if the !#$@ cylinder tin lined up.

Actually, on the Beck I'd have to remove the Sidewinder muffler and get under the car to see in.  The engine compartment extends all the way to the fenders.  Might still be easier.

Ok, now I've finally figured out the communication problem.  Stan, the Beck car doesn't have that piece of tin I think you're talking about.  It's a piece of the fiberglas body and is not removable - at least not without power tools.  There is a large piece of rubber that spans the gap between the fiberglass and the cylinder (and front and rear) tins, but moving it won't improve the access situation.

DONE!

Turns out I was blocked by an errant allen bolt that someone (probably me) lost from removal of the shroud when chasing  the oil leak.  It had fallen next to the plug and prevented the socket from going on.  That was easy to see and remove once I had the manifold out.  Glad I checked the manifold, as the nuts were not very tight.  I didn't need a swivel or anything fancy for the plugs except my miniature ultra-short travel 3/8" ratchet drive (one of my better purchases from Griot's Garage).  Whew!

Now on to finish the brakes.  If I'm lucky, I'll have the car ready for Cars & Coffee in the morning.

WAIT JUST A DARN MINUTE!!!

This is FRIDAY!

You're supposed to be at WORK!

WHAT'S GOIN ON HEAH?!?!?!?!?

Decided to take the day off and get the car put back together.  I'd had a very busy, but successful week, and decided to reward myself with a personal day.

Got the plugs in and everything buttoned back up.  Cranked the car up and then checked and topped off the oil.  I had changed the oil and adjusted the valves last week while the car was on jack-stands.  Then I put the leaky wheel back together with new brake shoes after a thorough cleaning.  Borrowed a friend's son to stand on the brakes so I could torque the big nuts down.  My 175 lbs on a 2-foot breaker bar damn well oughta be enough torque, doncha think?

Finally I cut and glued in the sound insulation in the luggage area behind the seats and then re-glued the carpets.  Getting them up last weekend was a real biotch.

After all that I reassembled the interior and gave the car a quick wipe down with Speed Shine.  Should be good to go for Cars & Coffee tomorrow.

Gordon.  Government worker ;-)

Nope.  Employed by a private company, but have plenty of vacation time I can burn.

Even worse! Government supplier charging for those $20K toilet seats, or software or some such :-)

Lane, I recommend the next time you take off the manifolds, check your gaskets. Are they from CB? My CB gaskets would squoosh out, then the manifold would loosen up and leak. I bought some HARD gasket material, cut my own, and put Loctite 517 anaerobic gasket stuff on both sides. It has a compatible and required spray primer that sets the glue action off once tightened up. That stuff and those special 10mm wrench-size nuts(use Loctite thread locker there) for the intake manifolds, and that problem is SOLVED! My manifolds have been on since 2008, at least 20K miles, have't come loose at all.

Btw, Glad you got the plugs changed out, Lane.  

I would assume they're from CB since Pat Downs built the engine.  I'll look into making some gaskets.

On a related note, I have yet to tweak the carbs.  Really the only thing I've noticed is that the car sometimes seems less smooth than it did after you worked your magic, and I have a little occasional popping.  Now I'm wondering if it all could be due to very slightly loose manifolds.  I know Gordon had something like that a while back.

Yes, it could.Those carbs sitting way up tall have a lot of leverage and put a lot of pressure on those two little 8mm bolts. Any extra vibration due to out of sync makes them come loose even quicker.

Anyway, I can fly anywhere, and work for free!!

I can straighten them out in Carlisle again no problem.  

May just wait until then.  This time howzabout I wrench and you instruct?

Ok.

Lane & Danny,

Please count me in as a note taking observer!

Wow!  The tightened manifold (still gotta do the other) and new plugs make it run much more smoothly.  Brakes seem fine as well.  Almost ready for Carlisle.

Lane:

I've noticed, in looking into engine compartments at Carlisle (I know....It's a 'guy thing'), that some of them have regular nuts with no lock-washers holding both the manifold to the head and the carb to the manifold.  BIG no-no....  At minimum, they should have flat washers and lock washers on the nuts, and at best they should have flat washers and nylok stop-nuts.  Otherwise, the torque arm of the manifold is enough that they keep loosening up with the vibration of the engine.

Glad things are coming together for ya.  Sure begins to decrease the anxiety before leaving, doesn't it?

Yup.  I may invest in a set of lock washers as it doesn't currently have them.

Just had one of my manifolds come loose.  It presented itself as a super annoying squeal, and more of the popping etc.. than usual.  Once I figured it out and tightened it the car sure ran better.  Now I'm contemplating my plugs...