Speciality auto sport

He creates his own less than admirable history over and over again hence he is, what he is and sadly at the expense of others... So it goe$......

That's it! I'm outta here! For sale to the highest bidder one SOC Corpse badge, the rest will go on to the garbage....

See ya, Nolan....

Nolan, chill out and put your big boy pants on.

Steve Lawing is a CRIMINAL! Yes, he built you and a few others a pretty darn nice car. But the leopard can't change it's spots.

Vinnie, welcome back? Don't ever leave because of "He", we love ya, man!

Jim---take the I-40 route and join the caravan from Hot Springs to Carlisle through 

Knoxville, Nashville, Christiansburg, and on into Carlisle.  Stay here a day or two to break up the trip and I guarantee you a great time!

Don't say "we" unless you're pregnant.

As someone that has been around since the Old Site, I too hate these threads as when they do evolve it's due to someone loosing their hard earned cash because they got screwed. I know if I did this with the speedster hobby I enjoy, I would be in the Grey Bar Hotel.

The owner's of the few completed SAS cars are great people whom I enjoy hanging with at Carlisle ...I'm saddened if anyone herein is offended by others who disclose the less than admirable business practices as it's not anyone's intentions to do same.

However, it's considerable a loss to others that could easily be kept to a minimum or possibly be avoided in whole if, words of caution could be clearly conveyed to potential Buyers.

It's well past due to to write off SAS advertising. I could use Corpse badge~

How much revenue does Theron get from an advertiser on this site?

Maybe we could take up a collection to make up the difference if SAS is dumped.

Jim,

You're bound to receive one hell of a rousing welcome at Carlisle!

Take lots, and lots of photos to document the trans continental driving experience so we can all vicariously participate in the adventure.

Look forward to meeting you Jim !

Likewise, I am looking forward to meeting all of the incorrigible reprobates that inhabit this site.

Jim:

You looking for a cross-country co-driver to Carlisle?

I'm confused Nolan. (No surprise though that I'm confused)

Are you upset because people are writing lies about SAS or the truth about SAS.  I don't know what your history or relationship is with SL or SAS, other than you have one of his cars, but if you have something to say to defend SL post it here and convince me he's not a criminal.  But someone who takes money knowing, or can't statistically build that person a car, he's a crook and should be locked up.

SAS has how many cars in the queue, 20+? If it takes 3 plus years to build each car that is 60 something or more years to build all the cars in the queue.  There's no way in HELL SL or SAS will ever build all the cars currently in the queue so he should STOP taking money on future builds.  It's idiotic and in many opinions illegal.

I've changed my stance on the ads and Theron should absolutely stop taking his money as it makes him complicit in the fraud.  IMHO

My friends,

Comimg from a promotional/marketing background I have a dissident view of SAS advertising on the SOS site...It will obviously be unpopular, but there's a rationality to it that I believe is worth consideration.

Advertising income is the life's blood of ALL media's prosperity (read: existence!) I have no idea how important any one advertiser is to Theron's maintaining this site but certainly loosing one limits Theron's capabilities that's directly proportional to the revenue lost.

I suggest instead that Theron posts (as many do) a caveat 'Endorsement Disclaimer' at the bottom of advertising along with the notice that 'Customer Opinions can be Accessed via the Vendors Forum'

And, I sincerely hope that you're all still my friends 

my question posted earlier really was not rhetorical -- i sincerely want to know how much money SAS pays to this site so we can appear to endorse his bad business practices.  by continuing to support his ads, we are complicit in his fraud.  this is not complicated.

Hi Gordon,

I won't be able to fit a right-seater.  I lost the rear compartment, which would be the engine compartment in a rear-engine configuration, to a new radiator with duct, fans, and a shroud.  The front compartment is almost filled with fuel tank, battery, electrics, and water pump and tank for the water-air intercooler, leaving basically the right seat for luggage, tools, spares, etc., since the back seat houses the engine.  Enough room for me, but not much to spare.

Here is what I said circa February, 2014 (on another thread about the same subject):

'I think SAS has shown a proof-of-concept that some other person or persons ought to "just get on with it" and build in larger numbers. I don't know Steve and mean no meanness to Hoss and other SAS people, but a 3+ year wait just seems excessive for a machine that a competent hot-rodder could build in a home garage in a year of weekends.'

Again. Again: Two guys with full-time jobs could, if they were energetic about it (and by "energetic" I don't even mean psycho-productive like Dr. Clock; I'm talking normal car-guy diligence) build two mid-engine Suby Speedsters or coupes a year.

They could do this on the side, while supporting themselves and their families with their day jobs.

What we're looking at here is a real opportunity.

I resemble that statement :~)

ed, i get what you say about howmany hours it will take a dilligent fellow to make on of these cars, but  i cannot understand the rest of your point here. whose side are you on here?

"There is no good side...

Or bad side.

No side of the Angels,

Or side that Devils may call their own.  

(Rod McKeown, 1974-ish)

******************************************

I take offense at being called "diligent"

Unless your remarks were directed elsewhere......Sometimes I cain't much tell.....and I don't like "hominy" much, either.  The real thing is much better, without the good stuff being leached out.

As you can tell, it's time this thread went off-track.  There is absolutely NO POINT in attacking Theron on this stuff.  Just leave it alone.

Hoss and nolan (especially nolan, it seems) want to be SAS/SAW supporters.  So be it.  I honestly believe that none of us care about that, one way or the other.  Nolan posts here, what?  Three or four times a year?  

meh...... 

What we DO care about is preventing, as much as possible, other unsuspecting people from getting involved with questionable business practices.  I sincerely hope that we, as a group, continue to do that and help people to understand that there are very good builders out there, some not so good and some that you should steer away from, for your own good, and LET OTHERS KNOW THAT.

If that's all we do here, then THAT is a public service.

Oh, and Jim - - - Too bad.  Just think of the riveting conversations we might have had!

Oh.....And after 16 years of unlimited bandwidth available for my super-nifty GIF emodium file collection, I found today that it has ended, basically because the owner of the site got bored with it - kinda like this thread.   

"Hasta la Vista, Baby!"

Here is a repeat of what I said previously.

"There is a big difference between Advertising and Endorsement.  This site accepts advertising and clearly marks it as such. Paid advertiser's user accounts are even marked in different colors so that their comments can be weighed against their own bias.

There are no paid endorsements to use any particular vendor or item.  You will not find and advertiser's products or business reviewed in a positive light just because they are an advertiser.  In fact the bottom of the manufacturer's page reads

"Inclusion of a manufacturer does not constitute an endorsement by SpeedsterOwners.com/SpyderOwners.com"

"

I really don't understand why I am being attacked when SAS is funding the site in which give you the ability to post these issues..  Would you rather not have a site to post these issues?  Perhaps we can just get rid of SOC, would that help future possible customers?

These threads are repeated over and over every few months.  The complaints are the same.  This site DOES NOT ENDORSE SAS any more than we endorse Carnival Cruises or Hair Replacement Therapy.  Yes, all of those advertisers contribute to members being able to get and share information about speedster manufacturers. 

In addition, google SAS and you will find that this site stands out with warnings from former customers.

-=theron

Damn!  Is THAT why my hair keeps growing????  

Seriously, Theron, I understand what's going on in running a web site (Hell!  In a former life, I used to be responsible for 42 of them!!)

None of this stuff is your fault from the aspect of being a website provider.  You're just trying to provide a service.  Thank you for that.

Sorry you got dragged into this, and I hope my last few posts help to re-direct the angst to where it belongs.

In the meantime........Has anyone heard if Lane has found whether his speedster can float or not??

If he used enough caulking for the body/pan seam it should...

In all seriousness- Guys, no where in any ones' criticism of Steve L's/SAS's business "practices" (in any thread on this topic) have I ever detected any sort of animosity towards SAS's cars (all I've heard is they're all top rate) or the cars' owners. You who have cars from SAS may have been treated fairly, but it's pretty obvious that you're the minority and you can't deny quite a number of people have been screwed over. If any of you believes that Roger (or anyone else on the "list") will be given his money back willingly, it's time to get your head out of the sand.

As for the site accepting SAS advertising, Theron has repeatedly stated that without advertising this site would cease to exist, and (I believe) has the caveats to soothe fears of endorsement. To quote Theron, "SAS is funding the site which gives you the ability to post these (very) issues". Maybe if more stepped up and became Supporting Members (it's really not that much) there would be the luxury of declining said advertising? Hell, if enough guys stepped up we could all take turns and only have to support the site every 2nd year...

Easy enough put up an anonymous site.. Cheap too

http://www.SpecialtyAuto~Fraud.com  would rank on a direct name search..

Just an observation as a side-note:

Did you ever notice that most of the guys banging the drum for "free-speech" and the right to post whatever pictures they want on this site are also the first to get all butt-hurt when somebody says something they don't like about their particular builder?

I have.

Yeah, I've noticed that, too, but didn't want to rub salt in the wounds on this thread.  It was bad enough as-is.

It's also occurred to me that over the past 25 years that I've been involved with "Kit Cars", you continuously heard about shoddy builders and yet you STILL saw their ads in the Kit Car and VW mags every month.  Kurt Scott started to 'out' questionable builders and his advertising base left him so his magazine went away.  Food for thought.  The ads pay for the magazine, just like they pay for a web site.  

Nothing has changed.

"I really don't understand why I am being attacked when SAS is funding the site in which give you the ability to post these issues..  Would you rather not have a site to post these issues?  Perhaps we can just get rid of SOC, would that help future possible customers?"

So you'll fund this site and display an ad for a company that you KNOW is dishonest.

That's morally wrong and you should know it.

Some newbie coming on to this forum will see this ad and think that if it's posted on this forum it must be endorsed by this forum, along with the other speedster manufacturers that have ads here.

If you think they won't then you're kidding yourself.

If Bernie Madoff was still alive and wanted to place an ad on this forum for retirement investments would you run his ad, knowing he's a crook?

How is the SAS ad any different?

Let me get this straight, if SAS where not a sponsor, the SOC would no longer exist?

VINNIE CALLED ME AND ASKED TO POST A FINAL GOODBYE TO U GUYS. I DONT KNOW WHAT HE POSTED BUT THEORN PERMANENTLY DELETED HIM FROM THIS SITE.

AND AS MANY OF U TOLD DUSTY AFTER OUR EVENTFUL WEST COAST MEET SEVERAL YEARS BACK. BBYE HOSS AND NOLAN

Well, if the Vinster is gone for good, a lot of us will miss his contributions to this site.  Not all of us, but many...

As for Hoss, he better still be here.

I plan to Bob, thanks.

Wasn't Vinnie a moderator for this site a number of years ago?  I seem to remember a time when Theron couldn't give this site the monitoring it needed, so he gave the job to Vinnie (or someone else) for a while.

OK I'll admit this is complicated, and I have some confused feelings here.  It sort of comes down to whose site is this?  Theron's, or ours, the great unwashed users who post?  This is a chicken/egg question.  The truth is you cannot hav e just one, each needs the other.  Theron's response seems to drift over towards his opinions/decisions are the most important.  I feel like it is the users who really define the site.  And in this vein I strongly second the opinion that if you take ad money from a known criminal, then you are endorsing that criminal's activity, whether or not you explicitly add a note that says you do not.  This may not be perfect leagalese, and not the way businesses are commonly run, but it is just plain common sense.  As a business owner/operator, you are free to refuse service to anybody you want, and so I suggest that Theron has the option available to him to refuse to "support" the SAS mission, and he COULD refuse to take this money, if he so chose.  He does not so choose, and I for one think this is a poor decision.  Is it enough to send me aaway?  No it is not.  I do not give a Royal sh** what SAS does or does not do, it does not affect me.  Steve L. has not managed to swindle me out of any money, nor will he ever.  Nevertheless, I cannot help but feel just a little tainted by the fact that at the top of every page I post in here is and ad for his company.  This does not sit well with me, and it should not sit well with any of the right thinking folks here.  I for one would gladly pay extra to replace the money that Theron gets from this ill-advised (my opinion) business decision.  I also believe that anyone who regularly posts here and gains a benefit of this site should pay the frieght.  If all who should contribute did contribute, maybe Theron could make his bread and butter without endorsing SAS.  Even though he swears he is not doing so.  The SOC is a much classier place 99% of the time. 

Just one man'sopinion.

ElFrazoo out.

How much does an add cost?

Ads are $50 a month for a standard banner.

Also, here is a survey for the site. I though about making it only available to supporting members, but then changed my mind.

https://www.speedsterowners.com...ising-money-from-sas

-=theron

Theron, thanks for the survey. Majority rules, and in this case, it's doing the right thing!

Thanks, Theron, for the chance to vote on this.  Most of the members here may feel sure about SAS, but I think we need to consider that this could be carried further, and maybe start to 'vote off' other manufacturers who actually deliver cars, but cars that don't always live up to what they advertise.

Could this be a slippery slope?  Just a thought...

I also appreciate the fact that I can have input on this issue.  Before we get carried away with slipper slope concerns, let's focus on what this vote means: we are voting on whether members want SAS as a sponsored ad on this site.  

This by no means indicates that we will be voting in the future on other companies.  We are not starting a popularity contest that will be enacted every time a member has a complaint with a manufacturer.  We are only voting on a single issue.  This is a great opportunity to participate in a democratic experiment.  Thanks, Theron

While I think it's great as well that this issue has gone to a general vote, a couple of questions and comments- are more people going to take an active part in keeping this site alive and become supporting members? I think we have to remember that Theron's the one that's put the work into it and accepted the financial responsibility of keeping this site running, so I don't know if I'd call it "majority rules". If people don't step up financially, how do we (Theron, actually) make up the shortfall? Do people expect him to support it indefinitely? And I think Bob has brought up a very good point- we have to watch what we're doing here. Al