Specialty Auto Speedsters

Stan, my friend Bernie told me it would help your business if you sorta leaked to the press the names of a few Hollywood celebs who are already on your waiting list.

I heard Bernie M is in charge of the lunch money in SC, LOL.  

Stan is a man of his word......pick one word.

Hey Stan, there's a Nigerian prince who wants to invest a half a million in your new car company.

the check is on the way and he only needs you to send him $10,000 to cover his business and banking fees.

Another SAS spin here:

Cumberland Gap Fiberglass Bodies

sas needs to hire some people.and possibly fire some people.build more buildings to assemble if necessary.there is no reason for this kind of waite.....or do they waite for somebody to crash thier subie??

That might be what an ethical business would do.   Do you think SAS has the credit to expand?   This is CLEARLY  a situation where Peter is being robbed to pay Paul and the principle is riding the business down as it crashes and burns.   He's going to take any fool willing to climb on down with him and with no regrets or so it certainly seems. This is not that uncommon.   I've had this occur in my business.   People know they are going to declare bankruptcy and they come into the office and purposely run up a bill getting as much as they possibly can from me and then next month I get "the papers".  Criminal in my mind but I've smarted up to it and I don't get caught anymore.   This is not just a fellow having a rough patch.   You think so you've never been in business.  This guys knows exactly what he's doing and what he is doing is working the system and stealing from folks. Can't see it any other way.  

John has nailed this one perfectly.  Five business names that I count so far.

Can we say fraud by conversion?

some people have good intentions but cant run or manage a bizzness.and thus need to hire the right guy to do so and make it profitable not by screwing the customers and suppliers but by volume&quality. Ive seen places go down just becasue the owner was 1 a moron or 2 had no clue as to how to run/ manage any thing.when you combine the two your a gonner for sure.and the guys left are unemployed/unpaid as are the suppliers and the guys that made a deposit on the car of thier dreams.

      If I didnt not own my home's and have somuch stuff and my fully ac&heated fulley equiped shop and want to live nowhere else but paradice I would entertain on a move to knoxville tenn.....as my grand son and his expecting mother and father both Dr's live in Kingston just out side Knoxville.

  SAS needs a good wake up call by somebody that can turn things around.

Stand corrected on Vintage.  As I said, I'm not that familiar w/ their operation.  That said, I'll wager a month's beer money that Kirk is thinking about Subbies, and might have one some day.  It is the future.  Just MHO.

It seems that everyone, including myself, lusts after a Suby but efficient plumbing and piping is going to cause many a nail biting and sleepless night so long as each installation is uniquely assembled from scratch from widely available but dissimilar hardware.

Someone should either market a 'plug n'play' kit... or provide a detailed parts and assembly worksheet(s) of their successful conversion...One of our own has put thousands of Canadian kilometers on his conversion to the point where I'm sure all the nail biting has been solved...and there's thousands of trouble free kilometers left! I for one would love to be able to cruise sweat-free beyond my towing radius.

Speak for yourself, Carl. I have no such lust.

I'm not in the market for one, but I've had the water cooled Subbie discussion with Kirk a couple of times and I just don't think he is interested in going down that road.  He is busier than ever building air cooled cars and really doesn't need additional sales.

I'm not sure I agree it is "the future," but there is no question that we will continue to see more and more of them.

Air Cooled has and will always work for me ~

That makes two (at least) of us Stan, I have no interest in a Suby

I am completely satisfied with my VW.

    Aaaa Stan,

    That's because through trial and disappointment you've at last found air-cooled Nirvana!...the perfect combination of minutia that rolls your wheels anxiety-free to the point that you can confidently head westward to smell the Pacific Ocean!

    With a Kennedy adapter and a bullet proof Ej22 (that rivals your HP) such an adventure is within reach...without the anxiety of driving beyond towing radius with an eye glued to the cyl head temperature.

    Someone, somewhere, is going to come up with the bolt-on plumbing kit that makes it possible for the mechanical dunces to confidently explore the far horizons and show off their enviable replicas and harvest a lot of 'thumbs up'!  

Someone has.....his name is Jake Raby, but if anyone goes that route they better have LOTS of cash.

I was thinking about going with a Subie power train when I restored my IM and contacted Jake.  At that time a complete Subie engine conversion kit was, if I remember correctly, in the $25,000 range.

Eventually, I'll have a water cooled Coupe!  Not pan based either (If possible)

From my perspective, it's more complicated than plug-n-play.  In the larger context, all of us have one-off platforms.  When you increase HP, you increase waste engine heat.  Add a turbo, and the heat dissipation problems increase exponentially.  The radiator size that worked for a 2.5 turbo engine in an Outback, for example, will not be sufficient in a conversion, since rad placement and efficiency will be compromised.  The vanagon conversion guys estimate you need from 1.5 - 2 times the surface area of a stock Subi rad in a vanagon to get the same level of cooling. 

Ideally, the rad is in the front of the car with vertical placement and unobstructed air flow.  However, that's usually not possible for several reasons, including bumper and/or body design conflicts and aesthetic concerns.  Then, you need to get the rad fluid to/from the rad back to the engine, without exposing the plumbing to road obstructions.

Porsche 996 and its ilk have shown that front-mount rads on mid-engine cars are the most efficient means of cooling, but it comes with the expected trade-offs in cost and complications.  My system, when completed, will have 4 heat exchangers or radiators: one large rear unit and one small front unit for the engine, one large rear unit for the air-water inter cooler, and one large unit for the a/c system.  I have also taken other steps to decrease unwanted engine heat, including a turbo blanket, quality ceramic coating for up/down pipes, hot side of turbo, headers, etc.

There is information available online concerning multiple radiators, conversion systems, etc., but, like all internet info, some of it is VERY valuable, but much of it isn't.

Think of all the talented, smart, hard-working owners on this site, many of whom have been experimenting for years, trying to cool our engines, both air & water-cooled, and up the HP.  If there was a magic bullet, someone would have found it by now.  We are the engineers, like it or not. At least it keeps us out of the bars, eh?

Jim has detailed a very good description of the issues.

The electronics and basic plumbing are detailed all over the 'net.

What is seldom found are reviews and articles of successful conversions that

really address the cooling issues that most are faced with. Radiator/fan/A/C condenser placement and the long cooling tubes must be a balanced system.

In the U.K. and Australia seem to have pioneered some very successful conversions.

We offer a 230hp EJ25 watercooled Coupe. Just sayin... Even offer air conditioning. That engine package is NA, no turbo, streetable, tuned for the street. Our radiator is not placed vertical in the front, that would not be the most efficient cooling. All coolant lines are -16AN aircraft fittings with braided hose. Heat shields are placed where needed. 

The design has replaced some customers JPS Subaru swaps where JPS would use a bunch of cut/welded together tubes in place, wasn't efficient cooling.... and that was on their 170hp Subaru engine. If ours cools our 230hp engines, you'll have zero issues. 

Ron, I am sure it can be done, not sure for how much less.  Then you have guys like Dave Stroud who can do it all himself but if you need a builder, you have to be ready for a lot of work to convert, not just the frame, but possibly the tranny, etc etc. At times converting cost gets close to selling yours and paying the difference for a new build. You just don't see it as it just creeps up on you and your budget got away from you.

I opted for a new build, sold my 2110 last summer and got a subie 356A build from Henry. the 356eh is for the Canadian version.... Ray

After reading all of the posts I've decided SAS stands for Sh!&ty A$$ $ervice.

E-mail sent, thanks.

"At least it keeps us out of the bars, eh?"

You can't be serious, Jim. 

I realize this is an older thread, but I am surprised that with all the SAS bashing the OPs of this site are allowing SAS to advertise here. I was just on THE SAS site from ad here.

The more I read the more I appreciate my Type IV!

Ancient Mariner, is that Rhyme Of? LOL

This has been discussed on here before, but in the end, there is that 1st Amendment thingy. If they pay to advertise, they get to. But we can bash the living crap out of the BAD business tactics as well. Sweet, isn't it?

Actually, in my understanding, that's not quite how the first amendment works, Danny. As I understand it, the Bill of Rights doesn't enumerate a right to say anything you want, anywhere you want. There are actually quite a few limits on "free speech", and always has been. The right of an owner of a website to restrict speech is settled law, so... there's no hiding behind that bush.

Theron owns this site: it's his right to refuse advertisements for heroin, elephant tusks, Nazi paraphernalia, or fraudulent speedster builders if he wants. He doesn't, or the SAS ad would be down. 

But what do I know? I'm a pipefitter. I did take a civics class in high-school though, so I guess I'm as much of an arm-chair jurist as the next guy.

Stan, I don't think 'Civic Responsibility' is taught in high school anymore...It's been deleted along with a respectful 'pledge of allegiance' in grammar school.

Civic responsibility is incomprehensible to the majority of high school youths, and pledging the flag is uncomfortable to a growing minority in grammar school... who we're providing a free education and free lunches for.  

Carl - RIGHT ON!  My step daughter came home from Fairfax County High School years ago and told us she had RIGHTS - we couldn't go in "her" room when she wasn't there (looking for drug paraphernalia/drugs, school teacher notes or missing homework assignments and books).  I told her to tell her civics teacher that in MY HOUSE she had the right to find a job and pay for her own keep if she didn't like my rules.  

As I get older I'm no longer biting my tongue - my opinion has just as much right to be heard as the guy espousing the opposite - TS if they don't like it.  I pay my fair share (and it seems then some) and will exercise my rights. Look at heat Donald Trump is getting for stating his seeming very well documented views!  

GOD BLESS AMERICAN and pass the ammunition!

You're right Stan. Forgive me for not stating this to your standard. For whatever reason, Theron takes his dirty money from SAW/SAS. But we can dissuade prospective buyers who come on here and ask the questions. There is nothing wrong with referencing history and advising people to go elsewhere.

It's like if I recommend aircooled.net over CB Performance. And Theron can certainly censor me or censure me. That is his right as owner of this site. But it is also my right to tell people to RUN away from SAS. Whether they listen or not is up to them.

Carl,

You forgot:

Breakfast

After school snacks

Medical clinic on campus, 1 to 5 pm daily

But daily pledge of allegiance. (Surprised me when I just now asked)

This at my wife's school, (K-8th grade) 25 yr. veteran teacher in sunny Calif.

All this chat about a "bolt-on kit" to Subify a Speedie... got me thinking . . .

I might just do one for sale, if I can get a used one for the right money. Stroud's cooling system def. works, so copy that. I'd run the stock ECU though, like I did in Bridget. The Rancho with the 3.44 R&P seems to be the ticket. Keep track of all the metes and bounds, drive the car and sort it for a season, then sell it, turn over the plans & cut pipe & etc. for a modest fee...

This'd be for a 2.2 and/or maybe a SOHC 2.5 though. 140-180hp, not double that. I'd leave the 300 hp Speedies to Kevin Zagar and the other lunatics. 

Only hold up is...most of the guys who would build a car or do an engine swap don't need that kind of hand holding, and most of the guys who would conceivably need a "kit" and illustrated instruction book would much rather go with a turnkey. Amirite?

Pondering...

Ed,

I think you answered most of your own questions.  I'm not sure what percentage of owners have built their own kits, but I'd guess less than 10%.  There are lots of reasons for that low %, mainly the past availability of already-built project cars that were being sold for a decent price.

"One size fits all" is a misnomer for our replica hobby.  While Vintage seems to supply the majority of plain vanilla replicas, as soon as you upgrade to the higher end of the market, individuality abounds.  Many of the mid & upper end purchases are from buyers who already had a stock build, and now want more: more HP, more suspension, more mod cons, etc.

I think Subi buyers would fit into 2 broad categories: 1) the engineering type, who wants to do his own conversion (machining, fitting, welding, planning) etc, and 2) the check writer, who wants to buy and drive.  You really need a third category to buy your services, the guy who just needs a little guidance on what to buy, how to assemble, etc.  

You need to determine a way to estimate the market share for those services you would offer prior to investing time and money into development.  I think you may need to refine your business plan.    

I think Jim really nailed it.  The DIY conversion is not for the faint of heart, or checkbook.  A balanced cooling system and gearbox choices will really ring up the cost depending on the chosen level of power and performance desired.  Chassis mods, brakes, etc. all add up pretty quickly.  Would you use an unknown JDM engine?  Probably want to go for a full rebuild with proper oil rings and head gaskets.

901/915 trans, Subie modified trans?   Ca-Ching!  No way to keep it simple.

    You're right...

Jim Kelly did "nail it" in that there are two ways to accomplish a Suby conversion. You can write a check...or you can follow the example set by David Stroud. I'm sure there are many other examples but Dave's pops into mind and is especially inspiring because he successfully did it on a shoestring budget!  There's a need for Ed's proposed "conversion kit" based on proven successful DIY examples.

    As for the installation of a 901 five speed, there are at least two very explicate 'follow the dots' Youtube videos for the faint of heart. 

I agree that it is not for the faint of heart but then if you CAN build your own car, then you should be able to figure it out.  The level of complexity will certainly be much higher with all the variables, different motor mounting points, and all the plumbing issues.

Then comes the engine and tranny choices, I've driven Type I, 901, 915 tranny's and I prefer the standard shift pattern of the 915, but I much prefer the Subie 5 speed which I have now. The time involved to commit to such a project will increase dramatically I would think depending on your choices. 

I want to wish you guys a happy 4th of July. Ray

Ed, it is a nice idea, but not very practical IMHO.