Speeder project update...

If you have used the "Torquemeister" with 35 lbs of force ...this equates to 240lbs  or so it isn't going to come off easily …You may have to use torch heat than the Torquemeister and or cut the nut through as far as you can and slit it with a chisel then back it off the stub axle. 

I recently removed my axle nuts and I'm not sure they were on with even 100 ft lbs of torque. Both sides came off easy. I was prepared for a high degree of resistance so I left the tires on with the lugs nuts loosened but finger tight, put on the 12" breaker bar and socket, took the handle off my floor jack and slid it over the breaker bar, had my son hold the socket in place, and when I went to put some pressure on it, it came right off with very little effort.

After I change the axle seals on both sides I reversed the process and this time I pout some real force on it and probably got it to three hundred or so foot pounds of torque. Then just a tiny bit more to fit the cotter pin in the hole.

Alan Merklin posted:

If you have used the "Torquemeister" with 35 lbs of force ...this equates to 240lbs  or so it isn't going to come off easily …You may have to use torch heat than the Torquemeister and or cut the nut through as far as you can and slit it with a chisel then back it off the stub axle. 

Hi Alan,

I'm skeptical the impact wrenches are going to work tomorrow by itself. That being said I'm looking at purchasing a torch. I've seen the "Bernzomatic" offerings and they have models specifically for rusted bolts situations. 

Do you have a preferred torch you use? I want a small handheld that I can use on occasions such as this. 

This is a link to the Bernzomatic type. 

https://www.bernzomatic.com/ge...elect-Torch.pdf.aspx

Robert M posted:

I recently removed my axle nuts and I'm not sure they were on with even 100 ft lbs of torque. Both sides came off easy. I was prepared for a high degree of resistance so I left the tires on with the lugs nuts loosened but finger tight, put on the 12" breaker bar and socket, took the handle off my floor jack and slid it over the breaker bar, had my son hold the socket in place, and when I went to put some pressure on it, it came right off with very little effort.

After I change the axle seals on both sides I reversed the process and this time I pout some real force on it and probably got it to three hundred or so foot pounds of torque. Then just a tiny bit more to fit the cotter pin in the hole.

Double lucky, you were able to remove the axle nuts easily and no mishaps for being so loose. 

As far as tightening the axle nuts I plan on using the Torquemeister for that. I'll be able to use a 3/8" drive torque wrench for that part.

Those axle nuts can be tough to get off. I have a tool VW shops sell that is a wrench that is made to be hit with a big sledge hammer to loosen the axle nuts and this has worked well for me over the past 30 years (BFH ). Oh yes and some torch heat applied to the nut as needed. Good luck getting yours loose.

If you get a torch and want a lot of heat, Propane won't cut it (no pun intended).

Get a MAPP torch - yellow cylinder, different jet size, LOTS more heat, about the same cost.

I always use an 18" long 1/2" breaker bar with a 6 foot piece of pipe on it, along with a resistance bar attached to the hub bolts.  Heat the nuts up and hang on the end of the pipe and they should slowly loosen (and I only weigh 160 lbs!)

Just a note about the cast axle nut thing Jimmy posted a picture of- it works best if you're hammering on it while there's a breaker bar attached and a friend putting pressure on it. I've heard of guys wondering why it doesn't work even when hit with a fair size hammer, and when asked how much weight they were putting on the breaker bar with it all they could say was "huh"?.

As Gordon said, a cheater piece of pipe over the breaker bar is your friend; I think mine's 4 or 4 1/2 feet long.  Al

Jimmy V. posted:

Those axle nuts can be tough to get off. I have a tool VW shops sell that is a wrench that is made to be hit with a big sledge hammer to loosen the axle nuts and this has worked well for me over the past 30 years (BFH ). Oh yes and some torch heat applied to the nut as needed. Good luck getting yours loose.

Jimmy, I have both the 36mm and 46mm tool. I used the cheater bar on the 36mm. I tried using an eight pound hammer but it didn’t budge. I tried different angles striking the tool but was concerned about hitting the fiberglass body. 

Gordon Nichols posted:

If you get a torch and want a lot of heat, Propane won't cut it (no pun intended).

Get a MAPP torch - yellow cylinder, different jet size, LOTS more heat, about the same cost.

I always use an 18" long 1/2" breaker bar with a 6 foot piece of pipe on it, along with a resistance bar attached to the hub bolts.  Heat the nuts up and hang on the end of the pipe and they should slowly loosen (and I only weigh 160 lbs!)

Thank you for the tip on MAPP gas torch type Gordon. That’s the route I’ll take  

I’ll try the cheater bar again, this time with a longer extension attached. I thought a 3’ extension would be enough, I guess I need more leverage. I definitely have the weight! 

I went to my P mechanic and borrowed a 3/4 inch breaker bar / 6 point 36 mm socket and a 4-5 foot heavy duty pipe and I put my weight(250lbs)  on the end and bounced and it came off.  The 1/2 inch bar broke off, two of them.  I had to use a lock bar between the studs and anchored on the floor of my garage to counter the force I was giving.   It was a really heavy bar. 

Anyone use this helping hand ?

A 3' bar won't even begin to loosen it, heat or no heat (unless your torch is a big Oxy-Acetylene).  You can get a 6' to 8' piece of heavy wall black iron pipe for under $20 bucks.  That, with your weight on the far end of it, should loosen pretty much anything.  Don't jump up and down on it, just put your 2-hand weight on it and lightly bounce it and ride it slowly down.  I can't remember a rear castle nut suddenly breaking loose in a bang or anything - they usually just slowly let go with the proper length pipe extension.

So let's say that the nut is corroded on and you'll need 450+ foot pounds to overcome the corrosion (that's pretty common).  Let's also say that YOU weigh about 180 pounds (stay with me, here...) 

If you have a 6' extension on the breaker bar (and that longer length makes all the difference, here) and you plop your 2-handed 180 pounds out between 5' and 6' from the pivot point, then you'll be able to exert a maximum of 990 ft. lbs. of torque.

But you won't exert ALL of that torque unless ALL of your weight is on the bar (feet off the floor).  Most likely, you'll start pushing down on the bar, the end will arc about a foot and then the nut will just start to turn.  (If it doesn't, I just go find a longer piece of pipe and start over).

That's how it works.  

Archimedes was right.  

"Give me a lever and I can loosen the world" (or something like that).

Gordon Nichols posted:

A 3' bar won't even begin to loosen it, heat or no heat (unless your torch is a big Oxy-Acetylene).  You can get a 6' to 8' piece of heavy wall black iron pipe for under $20 bucks.  That, with your weight on the far end of it, should loosen pretty much anything.  Don't jump up and down on it, just put your 2-hand weight on it and lightly bounce it and ride it slowly down.  I can't remember a rear castle nut suddenly breaking loose in a bang or anything - they usually just slowly let go with the proper length pipe extension.

So let's say that the nut is corroded on and you'll need 450+ foot pounds to overcome the corrosion (that's pretty common).  Let's also say that YOU weigh about 180 pounds (stay with me, here...) 

If you have a 6' extension on the breaker bar (and that longer length makes all the difference, here) and you plop your 2-handed 180 pounds out between 5' and 6' from the pivot point, then you'll be able to exert a maximum of 990 ft. lbs. of torque.

But you won't exert ALL of that torque unless ALL of your weight is on the bar (feet off the floor).  Most likely, you'll start pushing down on the bar, the end will arc about a foot and then the nut will just start to turn.  (If it doesn't, I just go find a longer piece of pipe and start over).

That's how it works.  

Archimedes was right.  

"Give me a lever and I can loosen the world" (or something like that).

Gordon, this reply will alter my commute route home tonight. I’ll try to catch Lowe’s before they close and buy a longer pipe extension along with the MAAP gas torch. 

I’d rather have the tools available than waiting another day. I’ll first give the impact wrench a try tonight since the socket I ordered should be arriving today. If any anything, maybe it will jar loose any rust binding the nut. 

I’ll use the 6’ pipe extension, heat if necessary. One way or another that axle nut is going to come off. 

Thank you for the feedback! 

Gordon leverage is KING...    I have to confess I thought I would never get the nut off myself seeing is was stuck in there with Locktite on my car but LONG BAR and 3/4 inch stuff is strong and my whole 250 went on the end bouncing.  The only thing I am Sorry about is that I could not give you a visual of an Orangutang on the end of the bar  

Gordon Nichols posted:

 

Archimedes was right.  

"Give me a lever and I can loosen the world" (or something like that).

Which reminds me of the difference between "simple" and "Easy"

It's simple to move a 50 ton boulder.  All you need is a big enough lever and a fulcrum...  It's not always easy to find a big enough lever.

Man proves this here

It took me about 800 ft.lbs of force to get a rear axle nut off a while back. Turns out that the "expert" that over used an impact wrench putting the nut on actually damaged the threads on the shaft so badly that it has to get replaced. For that reason, if something like penetrating oil and heat don't help enough to get it off with more moderate force, I'd consider cutting the nut off rather than going straight to added horse power. 

Once upon a time,  I had a 5' pipe on the 1/2 breaker bar with just about all my 190 lbs on the end of the bar...the end of the  breaker bar in the 36mm socket snapped off... ( now visualize this)  I went the entire length of the shop dragging the bar,  tripping over my own feet while trying to keep my balance.  The shock that went though my back was unreal a couple of couch days made it better.  

After breaking 2 x 1/2 bars the 3/4 had no problem handling the stress. Let's say that I think a 3/4 inch socket and bar is the way to go.  

A 650 ft/lb air impact did nothing. 

Ray wrote: "The only thing I am Sorry about is that I could not give you a visual of an Orangutang on the end of the bar"

Actually, Ray, I have that visual.  My brother was roughly your size, Ray, (same first name, too) and we were trying to get a few rusted/salted on lug nuts off of a truck wheel with a 24" long, 3/4" drive bat handle with an 8' piece of pipe on it with my brother bouncing up and down on the end.  The visual is appropriate.

Stoddard Solvent is what most garages used to use back in the days. Because of  the ingredients it was removed for use as a cleaning solvent. We used to put some ATF in it when we first changed it out for some new because it burned the back of your hands.I am a participant in a study of the  long term effects of this product for life. Testing on me is done every 5 years now. It used to be every year but as I got older and didn't die from it, they only call me in every 5 years now. They suspect that the minor "heart block" I have may have been caused from my contact with this solvent. 

I would highly recommend that you weld on some fold-out,out-riggers on your engine test stand so the whole thing doesn't tip over when you "goose" the throttle a few times.  Don't ask me how I know these things.

If you need the little piece of a VW bell housing to mount your starter up on the flywheel, let me know, I'll ship you one for the postage.............Bruce

Just as an aside, a mixture of 50/50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone is about the best-working penetrating oil I have ever used.

@aircooled PM sent.     

Because of my experience with woodworking, I use lacquer thinner to clean just about everything.

Todd M posted:

Because of my experience with woodworking, I use lacquer thinner to clean just about everything.

Cleaning paint etc from your hands with lacquer thinner seeps into your skin's pores ( I did this for years ) it is carried into the blood stream and over time builds up as a toxin in the bladder, kidney and liver. ... With my past history I have read up on a lot of this .  It's a must to wear gloves 

Gordon Nichols posted:

Just as an aside, a mixture of 50/50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone is about the best-working penetrating oil I have ever used.

Dextran 3 or 4 ?

Mercon 5?

Whatever that silly Quickjack uses.  I bought a gallon of the cheap stuff at Walmart when the lift was still leaking.  Should have enough mixed as penetrating oil for the next ten years!

Pretty much any ATF will work, so get the el Cheapo brand and el Cheapo Acetone, too.  Get a little oil squirter to dispense it, too.

aircooled posted:

Stoddard Solvent is what most garages used to use back in the days. Because of  the ingredients it was removed for use as a cleaning solvent. We used to put some ATF in it when we first changed it out for some new because it burned the back of your hands.I am a participant in a study of the  long term effects of this product for life. Testing on me is done every 5 years now. It used to be every year but as I got older and didn't die from it, they only call me in every 5 years now. They suspect that the minor "heart block" I have may have been caused from my contact with this solvent. 

I would highly recommend that you weld on some fold-out,out-riggers on your engine test stand so the whole thing doesn't tip over when you "goose" the throttle a few times.  Don't ask me how I know these things.

If you need the little piece of a VW bell housing to mount your starter up on the flywheel, let me know, I'll ship you one for the postage.............Bruce

Hello Bruce, I thought about the stability of the stand too. The guy I bought it from used it for his Baja Bugs motor work. I have another stand I’m working on that is much more stable. 

I’d like to take you up in your offer for the bell-housing metal piece. I will send you my address information. Let me know what cost is.

Thank you!  

I run engines on a plastic milk crate with a folded moving pad under the crate to keep it from moving around when running. 

Alan Merklin posted:

Todd M posted:

Because of my experience with woodworking, I use lacquer thinner to clean just about everything.

Cleaning paint etc from your hands with lacquer thinner seeps into your skin's pores ( I did this for years ) it is carried into the blood stream and over time builds up as a toxin in the bladder, kidney and liver. ... With my past history I have read up on a lot of this .  It's a must to wear gloves 

I like working with lacquer and with lacquer thinner, but I discovered a long time ago that I did not like thinner on my hands, so I wear rubber gloves.  Didn't know that it could do harm through skin though.  I clean paint from my hands with that orange mechanics hand cleaner, or I just leave it on.  It falls off within a day or so.

Alan Merklin posted:

I run engines on a plastic milk crate with a folded moving pad under the crate to keep it from moving around when running. 

I think that technique is called out in John Muir's VW manual.

George...I'll ship the VW bell housing out tomorrow.  Send the money thru PayPal.....Bruce

aircooled posted:

George...I'll ship the VW bell housing out tomorrow.  Send the money thru PayPal.....Bruce

Sounds great! Bruce!  Just let me know the shipping cost. I really appreciate you taking the time and effort to do this.

I received my socket order today. They sent me a 30mm 6pt instead of a 36mm 6pt. I guess I'll wait a couple days. 

Meanwhile, I stopped by Lowes's and grabbed a 6' pipe for my cheater bar. I thought I'd try it without applying any heat from the torch. It didn't budge one bit. I'm a 225 pounder. Oh... it bent the drive pivot point. 

I'll get back to it this weekend. Stay tuned fellas.

Jesus....

The no heat approach is to have someone rap hard on the socket with a short handle sledge hammer while you are applying weight on the pipe... this usually will shock it loose.

I did exactly that on the pinion nut on my trans rebuild! See that short black steel between the wood block and the gear puller? I hit that with that big sledge while leaning a good amount of body weight on the cheater bar. Bent the torque bar on the ground LOL,  but it did break loose!

I just caught an email from TRG Motorsports (the outfit Chris and I worked for as spotters) and they're selling off surplus and/or no longer used equipment.  One is a set of four Paoli DP 4000 Impact Bias (forward/reverse) wheel guns, all 1" drive, just like they use at Daytona, at $15,000 for the set!

I didn't know anyone offered something this robust at 2,250 ft. lbs. of torque with a 1" drive, and I immediately thought of @IaM-Ray and @vdubuslife.  Lord knows how you'll get 250 pounds of air (and enough volume to drive one of those puppies, let alone four at once - They use Nitrogen bottles at the track), but YOU can have the very same Impact gun as used in the Rolex series, ALMS, Indy-Car and at LeMans (but pro'bly NOT the LeMons series) for HALF PRICE!!!!!

So I looked them up and that really is the spec, but the price new, at around $7,600 smackeroos EACH, just blew me away:

https://www.hrpworld.com/pao-4...-1-square-drive.html

I guess no expense is spared when you're racing to win.

Lots of other stuff for sale at TRG (like a racing Cayman), so check out their ad page:

https://mailchi.mp/adoberoadwi...-835331?e=0274707ee7

I guess they include a Rolex with the gun  

Gordon Nichols posted:

Just as an aside, a mixture of 50/50 automatic transmission fluid and acetone is about the best-working penetrating oil I have ever used.

Sounds kind of like Ed's Red, which I believe is a concoction of ATF, Acetone, Kerosene and mineral spirits