Speedster Got Wet :: Advice Please

I brought my 1977 IM to my local shop for a tune-up, they left the car out in the rain for 2 days. Needless to say, the interior got soaked. I filed a claim with insurance, they want to total the car as the cost on replacing the interior would be greater than the value of the car, given the estimates I got.

My question is what is a 1977 IM, in fair shape with a salvage (water damage) title worth? $6-7k. Other than it needs a new carpet,it has a new motor with less than 500 miles, new top, new side curtains, and a banjo wheel. It is a fun little car. Thanks for your input.


Eddie
Portland, OR

None of this makes sense to me....how could your interior cost more than the car is worth? What insurance co. do you have.
Your mechanic is an a$$hole and should be sued for damages.
the worse thing is the Salvage Title..really puts a stigma on the car...

I got two qoutes on completely replacing the interior to like new condition from a couple guys in town. They came in around $12k. I would never pay that, I can replace the interior for myself for $2k. Anyhow, the insurance felt the car was worth $12k -- so they felt it was worth to pay it out as a loss.

I am trying to weigh whether it is worth it to buy it back as with a salvage title for $4k.

Carpet kit is about $400.00, seats can be redone for $4-500.00, and the rest will (should) wash out. Is the insurance guy looking at original speedster parts?

Resale on Salvage titles can be very bad

Vince is dead on. That's why they consider the car's repairs to "salvage" it. Resale on salvage titles is in the basement. Let's say the car's actual value is considered to be 12,000 with a clean title and good condition. Yours sounds a bit less than good, perhaps average would be a better description, plus hte salvage title. Now you are down to 1/2 to 2/3 of the clean title/good condition price. Another issue is that if the insurance company is considering the cost of a german square weave wool carpet as per Porsche 356 prices and the same with the seats/door panels, then bada bing bada boom - totalled.

Provide the insurance company with the costs of replica seats, carpet and door liners. See if that works.

But first, I would definately try trying out the interior. Shop vac is your friend followed with a fan blowing continously... You might even contact a business that specializes in water damage (they usually do water and fire/smoke damage) and see if they can help you out.

By the way. The mechanic is a butt hunch. I would file a claim against the shop's insurance.
angela

"how could your interior cost more than the car is worth?"

What is your Speedster titled as? VW, Specially Constructed?

That would effect the salvage title and the worth of the buy back.

Eddie,
Tell me what shop so I don't go there.

of course you should buy it back. It will be bought and paid for-free to you. Who cares about the resale value of free? Drive and enjoy.
And take a nice vaca with the extra. Where I'm from that's not called rain or trouble. That my friend is "Jewish Lightning"! Enjoy.

Ed, Half the speedsters that went to Paso Robles last year (07)suffered some sort of water damage, including mine, but I got it fixed and moved on, so quit your damn whining, have the interior pulled, replace it, and sue the mechanic for the damages.....sounds to me like your trying to take advantage of your insurance company, hell you don't even sound that pissed at your mechanic....Salvage titles are not the way to go...
You never mentioned who your carrier (ins) is, but this will be a hit against your insurance...

Let me add my .02 as I am familiar with auction salvage vehicles. If your insurance company wants to total it so be it, I'm sure that they will subrogate and recover the loss from the shop's insurance but do buy back the salvage title for the $4k, add toss in a couple of grand for the replacment interior (a weekend's of work) have the car gone over by the DMV to obtain a valid "reconstructed" title...
(many states title replica's as a Reconstructed Vehicle anyway.
All in all, it's perfectly legal, this type of claim does not fall under "at fault" and you'll still come out many thousands a head. ~Alan

Alan,
We don't do safety inspections in Oregon. It's probably a good thing given some of the vehicles driven out of the Lane Garage...

There are several ways to title a replica in this state and you to be very careful lest they brand the car initially. On this car, who knows if it inherited the salvage title as part of a donor car car (77 IM is a pan car), was mistakenly given the brand by an unknowledgeable DMV member, or if it occurred after it was built as a replica. In this state, it could have been titled as a Replica 195X Porsche Speedster.

Two days in the rain, even Oregon rain, shouldn't be permanent damage. Should be able to clean/dry this and be in decent shape.
When I took the spyder to Paso a couple of years ago, it rained for five hours straight. I had more than two inches of standing water inside of the car... Dried it out properly with no problems.

The last salvaged car that I bought back from my insurance company was my 76 Jaguar. Paid $75 for it.

Hey, how did the seats get that wet with the top on? I can see the floors and door panels, but the seats?

angela

Alan, I don't know about your state, but if I understand what you are suggesting is basically insurance fraud in California...Thats not to say that I don't bend a law or two, but to broadcast this over the internet and on our site is stupidity...but then so is trying to total your car for some water damage...

Howard Johnson is right, I mean Alan. We are talking about a 31-year-old car in sub-par shape. Take the money, buy the car, fix it or get it fixed and keep it for yourself. Leave it to your kids or grand kids and everyone is happy.

Vince, if the part about the mechanic is true, than this is in no way insurance fraud. An insurance company is not cutting a check for 12K on an old car without an investigation (especially for a water claim). In addition, the mechanics commercial insurance is getting the bill in the end.

Marty G.

Vince, I think you misunderstood what I am saying.
The owner's insurance is proposing to total the car. This per the owners first post herein and is based on the Insurance Company's estimate to repair the interior water damage. Their claims Rep. has made an inspection of the currect condition of the vehicle and reported same to the Insurance Company. I see no "slight of hand" ...... ~Alan

We probably rebuilt 20 salvage title vehicles, then re-registered them when they were road worthy. All wound up with branded salvage titles. There's no point in our state (Oregon) where they refuse to allow you to reconstruct, rebuild or just generally bullshit your way to putting a salvage/flood damage/wreck/theft recovery, etc., back on the road.

But the title will always be salvage therafter. Nothing illegal about it. Just accept that you are going to take a $$ hit when you sell it or if it is involved in an insurance claim.

Now "cleansing" salvage title is illegal. That can (and should) get you fitted with a pair of handcuffs. But this guy is not proposing that. His car already has a salvage title. Unless I really read his explanation wrong?

Oh by the way, most of the salvage cars we've put back together were from California. The higher labor rates in that state "total" a vehicle quicker than in Oregon.

angela

I'd pay $6-$7K easy for it, salvage title or not. If you can convince who ever your selling it to down the road that there is a salvage title on it because it got wet, all the better.

I still can't quite get how a car worth even $3k gets totaled because the interior got wet? Two days of rain isn't going to ruin a speedster interior unless it was total crap to begin with or unless it was leather, but who am I to tell an insurance adjuster his job?

I guess I don't get it...Sorry Alan...I know you are not stupid, but the suggestion seemed that way at the time...
If the car was on a salvage title in the first place, then that changes the whole picture....however, I've never heard of a car with a salvage title being totaled a second time, but I guess anything is possible...I would still like to know who his insurer is...I have owned several salvage cars in the past and sold them to party's in Europe, they didn't care at all......

Ed, shop vac, remove carpet and dry it, (or replace $400) glue it back down. Better yet have the moron who left it outside dry it out. Drive the car while you can.

"I still can't quite get how a car worth even $3k gets totaled because the interior got wet?"

Again . . . all depends on just what he titled and insured his car as!

Any car at all, once it gets wet, is considered "water damaged" and raises all sorts of issues. Not simply the seats and carpets, but the door panels and behind the dash board. They factor in possibly unseen damage to the wiring, clouded gauges, moisture in the heating and air conditioning., and especially MOLD ! ! !

Insurance companies are frightened to DEATH of mold and the health issues that go along with it. To their way of thinking, it's better in the long run to just axe the car. Then EVERYTHING goes away and they just "adjust" the owner's insurance rates over the next two or three years to cover their loss.

BUT . . . was the car insured as a VW OR 356 PORSCHE ? ? You can't find genuine rubber mats for any 356 these days, factory sound insulation, wooden floor panels, I mean an original pair of 356 kick panel speaker trim rings and inserts is almost $500 alone.

Then there's the mold issue that pops up when his kids begin school, allergies and blood irregularities "possibly" traced to mold spore inhalation and, "Oh yeah, remember when the car got wet . . . " and now an "as seen on TV" lawyer is chasing down the repair records to see if the car was investigated by and "sealed" by a Mold Abatement Expert and what was HIS EPA certificate number and . . .

BUT . . . the payout makes sense or is nonsense depending on just what was insured.

I have been hauling many newer bikes that have little damage, the isurance companies are totaling most bikes no matter what the damage i.e. "hidden" liability issues. I have a '07 Harley on the truck today that was knocked over in a parking lot by another car. Tank dent, side cover scrapes, handle bars bent and ......it's frigg'n totaled and this is not uncommon, go figure.
Also have a Dodge Sprinter van on that has the motor pushed back to the the rear of the front seats complete with a glump or two of blonde hair stuck in what was the windshield . ~Alan

Me thinks it depends on the Ins carrier, I had 5K damage on my Shovelhead that was agreed to at 10K and they fixed it...this guy still hasen't said who his carrier is......come on Ed, who is the idiot who totaled your car?

Jeeez Allan---what a gory story about the blonde hair. I guess you see everything in your work. Sorts the motorcycle wreck aftermath with finding a foot in a boot!

Ed--did you not have a car cover to put over the Speedster? Does your car have no convertable top? (Maybe it was up!?) After Carlisle last year and seeing that my cover was not water proof I bought a good waterproof one. Plus I am going to Scotchgard the convert. top this weekend.

---Jack

We had a hard front hit car that we redid some years ago. Steve was blowing the dust/dirt/glass out of the dash and heater assembly.

Several teeth came out still with the fleshy bits attached. Seatbelts. They help you keep your teeth...

angela

Car is totaled from getting wet? I

"Also have a Dodge Sprinter van on that has the motor pushed back to the the rear of the front seats complete with a glump or two of blonde hair stuck in what was the windshield ."

We have a really neat junkyard near here that has an area where the town stores the various wrecks, and most of the expressway accidents that the State is involved in towing. In the Summer, the various cars are just BLACK inside with all of the flies swarming around looking for blood and bits of flesh. A really different sound and smell, you know?

Insurance companies total a car when the cost of the repairs surpass a certain percentage of car value. This works to your advantage (nothing illegal about knowledge or effort) when you can do a lot of the "work" yourself and eliminate the labor costs.
Kind of like building a deck on your house. It's a $6000 project if done by a pro or $2000, 4 weekends and a sore back if done by you. I say get to work.

Bruce has it right.....
BTW, the larger insurance companies have a policy to have a vehicle burned after business hours in a tarped fenced in area that may have minute remains.
Younger drivers should be made aware of stuff like this as it is a real time end result. 99% of what I haul is for overseas parts - repairables and not of this catagory.

....And now back to the main thread: wet speedster.

Where is Ed???????????? Vince did you scare him off!!!!!! LOL

That was to easy....

V-e-l-l-y interesting thread. Juat one observation from a guy living most of his time in a desert climate. Oregon, and I presume Portland, can get more rain in two days than San Diego gets in a whole damn year. e.g. two days at 1/2 inch per hour = 24 inches!

I have my own wet interior situation.

My septic tank filled up and backed up out of a toilet. The nasty water leaked down through the floor onto my not yet installed seats, carpet and other interior bits.

With the house flooding my first priority, of course, was to rescue the Speedster parts. I sucked what water I could off the carpet with a shop vac. Everything looks ok now but I am concerned about whether I need to disinfect it all.

I am also wondering if the carpeting on the basement floor is safe to keep now that I have cleaned it.

Mike, that was popularly called the "Nitrogen Cycle" when I was in school. In today's green environment, I am sure it is against the law to intervene in any way with nature's own microbes and bacteria, as they may be endangered by your unauthorized disinfectant. An E.I.R. (Environmental Impact Report) is undoubtedly required before any action can be initiated. Call Al Gore for approval.

Per my wife the insurance agent:
NO do not use any of the water damages items. You'll need to get a company in the specialized in this type of clean up or the odor
(causd by bacteria) will remain. This is highly toxic...mold is also a concern..
Your home owner's policy should have an endosement to include drain and septic back up. ~Alan

Ditto what Alan said. You should remove the basement carpet and trash it along with (sniff!) the Speedster stuff. The chance of infection is too high. Your insurance should cover it.

We had a toilet back up at one end of the house, and had to remove all of the dampened carpet, plus anything that contacted it other than furniture, and discard it. The furniture, we were told, could be disinfected.

The floor where the toilet is is wood and the water leaked through the wood floor construction into the basement where the Speedster stuff was.

Do I need to be concerned with contamination of the wood?

It seems like the Speedster stuff could be disinfected. It is not like the heavy carpet and pad on the basement floor.

Some of the stuff is metal parts like carbs and linkage. The Speedster carpet is quite thin synthetic.

What about my shop vac that sucked up the nasty water? (I probably should empty it soon)

Anything that came into contact with the moisture should be disinfected or discarded ASAP. I'd call in one of those disaster recovery companies to deal with the wood. Some of it may buckle and need to be replaced.

Got Bleach?

sounds like a job for hazmat