Speedster won't start

Describe the noise while trying to start it.

Is it actually turning over the engine or making some sort of different noise than a normal start.  Or is it just "clicking" a lot? 

Never heard of a starter "screw driver test".  What, exactly, is that?

Gordon see attached for video

Whoa...

Try out it in 4 gear ign off. Then rock the car back and forth then try starting.

Car is up on jack stands.  I put a stocket on the generator bolt and turn the engine crank over.  The car did leave a puddle of gas on the driveway.  Still no go

Can't really tell if that noise is the solenoid clicking or is the motor turning over?

do you have a electric fuel pump?

call me if you want.  Difficult to figure out thru posts

1-916-255-7996

STOP! Before you do anything, find and fix the fuel leak.

Sounds like the starter gear is not fully engaging - seriously, try tapping it with a hammer a few times. Solenoid is not pushing the gear out far enough to engauge the flywheel.  You could take it off and clean it.  

The screw driver trick is to by pass the ignition key to turn engine over.  The starter is heaviness electrical drain item on car so all terminals and grounds must be clean and tight.  Check those on the starter since you have it on jack stands.

Nice of wife to push it in garage while you steered! 

Sounds like the starter gear is not fully engaging - seriously, try tapping it with a hammer a few times. Solenoid is not pushing the gear out far enough to engauge the flywheel. You could take it off and clean it.

That is exactly what it sounds like to me as well.

Ok, it is the solenoid.  Did the screw driver jump and starter roared to life.  

Now have starter out.  It says it was a re-manufactured.  got know how old it really is.

You can get a reman starter for a VW auto stick for $40 exchange at Auto Zone tI always use the auto stick starter has it's own supported nose bushing . My local AZ usually has one in stock.

Bobby, inquiring minds still want to know why the puddle of gas!!!?

I am not sure.  Car is in the garage now up on stands. I check the fuel lines and not locate the source.  It is not doing it now.  Could it have been the carbs were flooded from trying to start it so many times?  The car has smelled like gas in the garage before all of this happened.  I thought it might have been the vent tube.  So I raised it up, made a little hill 5 inches tall or so to stop any gas splashing.  What else do you think the gas could be coming from?

Ok,  for a new starter.  I called auto zone.  And of course they wanted to know what year make and model the starter was for.  They can seem to look up vw type 1.   So I said 1970 vw bug.  He can order one for me for $40M just like Alan mentioned.  Is there anything special I have to tell them to make sure i get the right one?

Wolfgang
My drive  way is on a hill.  My wife steered while my two boys 13 & 14, myself and my big farmer boy body pushed that thing up the hill.  That went I did a face plant on the drive when my foot hit the gas puddle on the blacktop.

Make sure you get the one as Alan said for the semi-auto stick shift VW.  The drive gear is self supporting (doesn't have long end that connects to bearing in the trans).

This one -

NOT this one -

Ok

The guys at Advance Auto parts need more info.  What year and make should I tell them?

wolfgang 

mine looks like the bottom one you said not to get.
 

Here is a pic of my starter  Notice the scrape marks.

The auto starter is nice but keep in mind the solenoid is clocked at 11am instead of 1pm

What year was the semi -auto stick? Bug or Bus?

on my 2387 a ordinary starter wasn't cutting it, got a smaller hi-torque starter and it was marvelous, a quick turn of key and presto...

I could get this one from Jeggs.  Their warehouse is only 3 miles from my house.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Powermaster/713/9534/10002/-1

It is a lot more the $40.

Ok, Advance auto parts can special order the Bosch SR17X -12 volt for me at $119M.   Would get it on the 13th.   Do I do that or get the Jeggs high torqure?

Bobby, get out your Taro cards and see what they recommend.   Just be sure the black Queen of Solenoids doesn't come up. 

Let your keyboard do the walking....

Done, ordered the bosh SR17X.  I am still wondering about the gas leak.  Do the bowls on the carbs have an overflow that spits the gas out?  We did try to start it numerous times on the inclined drive way.

Noooooo  Auto Zone starter for the auto stick  has higher torque than stock and the self supporting nose gear bushing  just tell them   VW Beetle 1970 automatic any more info will confuse them young 'ns :~)

Bobby D posted:

Done, ordered the bosh SR17X.  I am still wondering about the gas leak.  Do the bowls on the carbs have an overflow that spits the gas out?  We did try to start it numerous times on the inclined drive way.

I asked earlier if you had a electric or mechanical pump.

If they are webers or the empi copies the float must be set properly. if it is too high-two things may occur. fuel spills down into the engine, and leaks out of the carb to ground.  I recently had a customer that the key did not go completely to the off position and filled the engine with fuel.

check the hoses, clamps and filter.

as for the driveway-was the fuel tank near full. that fuel may have come out of the tank vent line?

Your starter was cleaner that what I expected (used to well used old VW ones).  Usually they are greasy from trans/engine oil and covered with clutch disk dust.  That looks new. No idea on scrap marks on the bendix spring - it throws the gear out to engage the flywheels.  The shaft is often rusty/dirty/worn/dry which causes it not to fly all the way or or to drag coming back. Trouble with reman is they clean and test - if they find something bad they fix that part and move to next one.  It could just need grease or brushes (or bearing or solenoid). 

Humm the gas?  Do you have a mechanical fuel pump?  If you it could have a bad diaphragm that filled  engine with gas or carbs filled cylinders?  (Electric pump could thru carbs too). That could cause hydrolock and the starter would fail to turn engine over.  Definitely a worse case scenario but I'd pull plugs to check it out or check oil level and sniff oil for gas.

We have an electric fuel pump.  You can hear it start to hum when you turn the key.  I am pretty sure the gas did not come from the tank vent tube as the tank is only half full.   It must be coming from the carbs.  When I get the starter back, I will get a closer look with the car running up on the jack stands and see if it leaks.  My wife has been complaining about the smell of gas.  I just thought it was something you get with these types of engines and carbs.  We never had a puddle on the floor until now.  I think the numerous attempts to start it revealed the issue.

I really appreciate all the helps you guys have given me.  Its great to have this community available.

Here are some videos of the starter test.  It does not seems to be very smooth.  I don't know.  Maybe I was just burning it out holding current to it for so long.  What do you guys thinks?

I can't give an informed opinion on the starter test .  Guess it should spin as long as you have current and ground.

I had a similar starting problem once.  The starter was intermittent and would click and  finally, nothing.  The battery had plenty of juice and I bump started it to get home.  I jacked it up and checked connections to the starter etc.  Long story short,  it was the ground from the battery to the chassis was loose and greasy.

I apologize if you've already eliminated that problem .  Best of luck with your madness.

Sounds like starter mis-engagement to me.  It could also be a hydro-locked motor and the starter was chewing teeth on the flywheel.  The excess fuel will eventually seep past the rings and it will free itself, however it goes into the oil and 1) thins it out and 2) overfills the oil.  Check your oil and see if it smells like gas or if it is much fuller than when you last checked it.

Here are some things we'd do if the car was here for service;

#1-figure out where the fuel leak is coming from.  If it is under the engine or exhaust, then your carbs are leaking down into your cylinders and will cause hydro-lock.  Any other leak should be simple to trace by inspecting lines, filers, and fittings

-I'd look for stuck linkage or another fuel system issue

-verify fuel pressure to make sure you aren't over-pressurizing the carbs

-inspect and clean/replace the needle and seat to make sure you don't have fuel slipping past them

-replace basic carb gaskets while they are open for inspection

-inspect the flywheel to make sure it has all of its teeth (you can do this through the starter hole and have someone spin the motor at the crank so you can see it all)

-

Alright!  

The new starter did the trick.  She fired right up.  Still going to keep my eye out for any gas leaks.  I ran it in the garage for a few minutes then inspected around and under the engine, no signs of gas.

Thanks guys for all your help.

Please check your oil level - If the carb bowls overflowed it is possible that some gas got past the pistons into the crankcase.  If so, the oil level will be higher than the "full" mark and the dipstick will smell like gasoline.

Never hurts to check.  If both of those are "true" then do an oil change and you should be fine, but I suspect that it was just flooded from trying to start it and you're good to go.

Flooded to the point that a puddle of gas was left on the ground? Was the car on an incline?

Bill

You guess it.  The car was on an incline and the starter was bad.  Every time we try to start it, it just flooded the carbs.  

Gordon

I checked out the dip stick and it did not smell like gas.  I will double the level to make sure.