Spring-loaded pushrod tubes?

No experience with CBP's, but I have had the Jaycee spring loaded pushrod tubes before and they work well.

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Gordon, I also had mine replaced with the JayCee ones (JC-9102-0) about a year and a half ago to fix leaks (and they seem to be working OK).

However, Anthony noted that when they removed the old ones, they noticed oil seeping past the rocker assembly studs, so they replaced some o-rings and used sealant on the studs. Life often works out to be more complicated than we imagine it will be.

Also, they had to pull the extended sump to get access to the tubes.

But, funny, now that my pushrod tubes are dry, I seem to focus more on the other parts underneath that seep oil. They're not leaking, of course, just seeping.

Did you know that seeping oil can be easily removed with Brakleen and a rag?

Just saying.

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Well, what I had in there for the past 7 years slowly gave up the ghost and was way beyond "seeping".  They were adjustable, but not spring loaded, so I ordered a set of Jaycee 9102-0 jobbies from AA Performance - The last order from them took 5 days to arrive ( UPS ), so the end of next week.  

Thought I was going to get the engine back in Pearl this weekend, but I'll be finding more things to "fix" while waiting.  

Thanks, guys!

I am a fan of the JayCee "guaranteed no-leak" pushrod tubes. I've used them on my engine and that 2276cc I built. They don't leak. But everything else on a type1 leaks.

JayCee also makes a BEAUTIFUL aluminum sump cover with a recessed Allen bolt drain plug, in either stock 6-bolt or CB extended-sump 8-bolt style.

Gordon, the springs on the tubes are STOUT, so eat your Wheaties before you put them in. Good thing your motor is on the stand, makes it MUCH easier. Wear gloves to get a good grip and protect your fingers. Or, loosen the head studs, put it together, and re-torque. I recommend you install the silicone seals bone-dry, no matter which way you install. It is more difficult to get a good seal if the head is torqued but not impossible. Just pay attention to centering the tubes and seals.

Mitch, the lower head studs are often a source of leakage, as well as the rocker studs. Oil seems to like to come out of the cylinder spigots, where they go in the case as well.

My engine was leaking from the valve covers, the gaskets must be getting thinner. I probably should have replaced them, but I have bolt-on covers so I simply tightened them up.

I do have a good-sized seep from the oil cooler block-off. But that is under the fan shroud and is a real PIA to get to unless the motor is out. I have an aftermarket 911 shroud and a real Porsche fan and ring. With the manifolds and throttle bodies on, it is just about impossible to take the shroud off.

It will be attended to this winter.

@DannyP wrote: "But everything else on a type1 leaks."

Boy...  You've got THAT right...  

They're about as bad as a Norton Motorcycle engine.

just a FYI...  brand new 70's era  AMC HARLEYS "seeped" on the show room floor,,,,go figure...some things just go with the territory

Well, I finally got the engine off of the stand and onto a floor jack when I decided to go to the new push rod tubes, which are due here in a few days, so back on the stand it went.

At least now I have my new shop stand mount to play with.

If we're doing push rod tube replacement and not pulling the heads, we use JayCee brand spring loaded "guaranteed no-leak" and I've had really good luck with them.  They are STOUT as Danny mentioned.  We use 2x long zip ties, crossed in an X and pull them to aid in collapse while installing and that really helps things along.  And as Danny said, REALLY pay attention to the seal as it seats.

All of that said, someone recently told me that JayCee was bought out by EMPI, not sure if that is true or if the quality will change, but just what I was told...

@chines1.

Thanks for the tip!

I woke up around 2AM, designing in my head various ways to compress them in a controlled way and, of course, I way over designed it before I gave up and went back to sleep (think old-school coil spring compressors, just way smaller, like a pair of pliers - I haven't given up on that, yet, either!).  A couple of Zip Ties make a lot of sense.  If I come up with a way to ease them into the end seal pockets I'll post it, but don't hold your breath - So far I've got Bupkah.  

The last tubes on the flywheel end will be the worse, as I cannot remove the headers (they are rusted together, after 25 years, so I'll have to cut them off if I ever remove them) and that sled-shaped tin is captive by the J-tubes and cannot be removed,  just angled down quite a bit.  🤬

I haven't received the JayCee tubes yet.  Once I can see them I'll see how the Zip Ties will work.  It's always something on these cars......

On the "Who's buying who", the same thing is going on in the Hot Rod world.  Guys who've been around forever are now OLD or gone.  Heck, I'm pushing 75 and I'm just a kid.  Most of my Hot Rod friends are in their 80's and selling out most of their car collections and/or Hot Rod businesses and finding other interests.  New Rod owners are mostly in it for the investment, and that's sad.  Time marches on, I guess.

Empi bought out Jaycee more than 5 years ago.  Jack was working for Empi for several years, but now builds the Empi long blocks under contract for them.

Jack's interview with EMPI

Thanks @LI-Rick  in that case I haven't noticed any difference in quality since EMPI bough them, which is good.

AFAIK, the parts are all made in the same place and the same way, EMPI just owns and runs things now.

So my JayCee spring-loaded push rod tubes arrived and I am very impressed with presentation of parts in the box and the quality of all parts - Everything is first class.

While waiting for them to arrive, I made a spiffy tool to compress the tube springs to let me install the tubes and then slowly crank them out to seat in the case and heads.  The concept was terrific, promising more control than the @chines1 suggestion of a couple of Zip-Ties.  My spiffy tool (made with lots of love ) really sucks and has been abandoned for a bunch of reasons.  I can hire great tool designers, but I need more training to be even a mediocre one.  ☹️

I also found that it’s impossible to install these tubes with the headers still installed, especially the exhaust J-Tubes, because they’re totally in the way, so I spent an hour messing with my 25-year-old headers to get them to release from being rusted together and get them off the engine.   I also found that I can follow the JayCee installation instruction sequence and compress the tubes with a rubber strap wrench cinched up tight enough to get the first one in there.  It still takes a lot of effort to get them in there, but it works, and that is what counts.  That’s as far as I got, today.  

The saga will continue…….   After today’s football games.

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One tube a day, Gordon.

That’s all we ask.

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I am no where near that level of production…….yet.   😉

And I have gone from an assembled (leaking) engine down to a long block with a single push rod tube installed in about a week.  

Pitiful….  

I have heard that these things are less than ideal. That is, not a panacea. Sounding like the right thing, but not really sealing . Will stay tuned to hear the 5¢ racing assessment. Is one tube a day like one toke over the line,??

Well, Carey Hines,  Stan G and Mitch from Sacramento all endorsed them as leak-free as advertised provided that you pay careful attention to cleanliness during install and making sure that the end grommets are installed properly with no bunching or disfiguring.  That I intend to do.  They look well engineered and should do the job.  

Getting tired of seeing the engine on a shop stand so it'll be a push to get this done and back on the road this week, as long as Life doesn't keep getting in the way.

@El Frazoo posted:

I have heard that these things are less than ideal. That is, not a panacea. Sounding like the right thing, but not really sealing . Will stay tuned to hear the 5¢ racing assessment. Is one tube a day like one toke over the line,??

From whom? Sometimes information sources are more important to discern than the information needed.

As I've stated, the springs in these things are stout, and the quality is there. Carry on, Gordon.

Don't let the Maryland Naysayer deter you.

Not a nay sayer. Go forth, multiply, you be you, all is good. I recall several years ago, pinging the group here about these things. I have a few weepy PR tubes on my Type 1,  and was thinking to go the route chosen by Gordon. I recall some less than glowing reports (residual O ring leaks) , and I'd swear one of those came from Piperato himself. It would be useful to know if he has in fact ever used these spring loaded devices and so has first hand knowledge. Just like the replacement split swing axle boots that claim to avoid a full tranny r&r to repair a leaky boot, these kind of things can have issues. I applied some of those split axle boots on my 356 back in the day, and they were not perfect.

Likely, the key to godliness is, as stated, cleanliness, and careful work. The list of positive endorsers here is convincing. So many miles of smiles, they say.

Gordo: as is usually your wont, lay on some pertinent pics of the project. Your how-to's are the best.

OK, so here is the infamous (and rejected) tube compression fixture.  Do not build one of these and do NOT try this at home.  It grasped the tubes where the angled O-ring seals slip onto the ends:

So you slipped one end on and then compressed the tube by hand to slip the other end's crow foot on:

Then, just crank the turnbuckle to compress it.  The trouble is, everything tries to rotate as you un-crank the turnbuckle while trying to hold the tube in place on both ends and it is quite difficult to keep things lined up.  Also, that crow's foot on the head end has very little clearance to some of the head's strengthening fins near the tubes, making it impossible to use.  It also pulls slightly more to the turnbuckle side, so it is less than ideal.

A great concept, executed well but simply doesn't live up to the desire and too many variables in the way.
I'm at lunch, but I'll get a couple of shots of the new process and how easy it has made installation.  The rubber strap wrench (and liberal amounts of Brake-Kleen on the tubes for added grip) works like a charm.  I installed the remaining three tubes on the first side in under 20 minutes.  I'm finally on a roll!!

Stay tuned.

@El Frazoo posted:

Not a nay sayer. Go forth, multiply, you be you, all is good. I recall several years ago, pinging the group here about these things. I have a few weepy PR tubes on my Type 1,  and was thinking to go the route chosen by Gordon. I recall some less than glowing reports (residual O ring leaks) , and I'd swear one of those came from Piperato himself. It would be useful to know if he has in fact ever used these spring loaded devices and so has first hand knowledge. Just like the replacement split swing axle boots that claim to avoid a full tranny r&r to repair a leaky boot, these kind of things can have issues. I applied some of those split axle boots on my 356 back in the day, and they were not perfect.

This thread is specifically about the JayCee brand and they do not, in fact, leak(when properly installed). Other brands do, and that is what I previously had on my engine. I think they may have been Bugpack brand(but I don't remember).

"Details matter"- Jack Reacher.

And here is the rubber strap wrench in action...   I wipe the rubber strap down with Brake-Kleen and also wipe the tubes to get any oil off and get a good grip, then use the wrench for leverage to compress the tube with both hands and it goes right in.  Got one side done, rockers back in and adjusted and now doing the other side.  Things finally got easier when I figured it all out.  They're a really cool product.

The rubber strap wrench is cool enough that everyone could find uses for it, but the straps have a limited lifetime of several years before they age and crack and can possibly break.  Lowes and Home Depot sell replacement straps online, but probably not on display in the stores.  A kit of 1 large and 1 small wrench is under $20 bucks.

My local Home Depot is scaling back their hand tool department - It is now less than half the size it used to be.  ☹️  Much of what used to be held "in stock you now have to order on-line for free delivery to a nearby store or to your home.  Bummah....

That picture is worth, well, you know.

Looking good Gordon, and I know you are a bit closer to a leak-free VW engine.

Danny, copy that.  JayCee brand . . . got it.

Gordon: "... figured it all out."  Well duh, isn't that how it always works?

Halloween hanging decorations are a little strange this year…..

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Halloween hanging decorations are a little strange this year…..

What paint did you use, Gordon?  How did you prep the pipes? 

Rustoleum high temp satin black (for painting grills )

Prep was lightly sanding them with 150 grit sandpaper, wipe them down with a rag, wipe them down with Brake-Kleen, hang ‘em and paint them.  Real low-tech.  

Thanks, Gordon.   I’m going to do the same at some point.

Good on ya, Gordon!

Yeah, but all these "little" side projects (and there seemed to be many) really slow things down.

I've rounded Third and headed for home!

And just like that, I have a re-assembled engine ready to get back on the floor jack with the leaks fixed, new pushrod tubes (and newly adjusted valves), new rocker stud o-rings (thanks to Danny for reminding me), new crank seals, paint touched up and even the thermostat adjusted.

Now where's my neighbor "Big Mike" when I need him to move it again??

@Wulfrik (John) I think I would find some other paint than Rustoleum High Temp Satin (It has an outdoor grill on the can).  It goes on kind-of weird and has strange shimmers when dry, making the finish inconsistent.  Try looking for Krylon High Temp instead (available at Lowes, Amazon, ACE and maybe others).  I've used Krylon in the past and I think it's a lot better than the Rustoleum, which has now said "Buh-Bye" to my shop and "hello" to the trash bin.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Krylo...BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Oh, and @DannyP - That engine mount from AA Performance is the Cat's Pajamas.  The only issue I found is that my clutch disk centering tool has a loop on the back end that is just that much too long to get everything in there, so I'll assemble the clutch when on the floor jack (I have a 48" torque bar against the floor to help tighten it ).

It's always something with these cars.....   🤨

@Gordon Nichols — thanks for the tip, Sir.  You and @edsnova have given me great information on this.  Much appreciated.  

@Gordon Nichols, if the clutch centering tool fits through the tube(and it should) just stick it all the way through from the other end. Or cut the loop off. Mine is made of plastic.

If I had the engine on a stand, I would also reseal the cylinder bases(if that oil I saw was coming from there) and reseal the washers and nuts on the lower head studs inside the rocker boxes.

But that's me. I have this same task on my agenda for winter, along with building my mountain close-ratio trans and resealing the oil cooler block-off.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

The rubber strap wrench is cool enough that everyone could find uses for it, but the straps have a limited lifetime of several years before they age and crack and can possibly break.  Lowes and Home Depot sell replacement straps online, but probably not on display in the stores.  A kit of 1 large and 1 small wrench is under $20 bucks.

That’s weird. I’ve had the same strap wrench for 25-30 years and it’s still fine. But I only use it for oil filters. Mine has an aluminum handle with a red strap that looked like it’s a 1/2 nylon strap coated with some red rubberized material. It’s a Klein tool.

Klein makes great tools.  Mine is black rubber and you get two different size wrenches in the package for $17.  Probably, if I had sprung for a Klein 20 years ago, they would still be good!

And Danny wrote: "if the clutch centering tool fits through the tube(and it should) just stick it all the way through from the other end."

Duh....  

Now I feel like a Doofus...    

Nah, don't feel like a doofus. I had the same thing happen years ago and had to scratch my head for a moment. Now you don't have to...

On an un-related note, my neighbor, "Big Mike" (because there are several "Mikes" around us, but he is the biggest) has been over three times now to help me move the engine from floor jack to stand and back.  Mike is a buyer for a MAJOR producer of sneakers (that just might start with an "R"), including buying for their factories in Europe and Asia (Vietnam, mostly).

On one of his appearances we got to talking about "work stuff" and he told me that most sneakers made in his facilities cost between $12 - $18 to make, all in.  Most of those then retail from $60 - $300 per pair.  

That is one incredible mark-up.  That sounds like Porsche pricing!

In many ways, I'm one of the most conservative people I know. My politics as they regard freedom from what I perceive to be tyranny (you might consider it simple "regulation") put me in an extreme minority in this country. I really want to be left alone.

I'm the son of probably the last renaissance man the western world has ever produced. Dad could lay block, pour concrete, frame houses, was licensed in all all 3 mechanical trades (plumbing, HVAC, and electrical) at one time or another, hung and finished his own drywall at 70+ years old, trimmed and painted. He subdivided and developed bare property into streets and lots. He put in municipal city sewer and water. He did all the plumbing for our hometown's public swimming pool. He learned to program by buying a book and teaching himself. He did his own books and taxes.

He taught me the value of doing everything possible for myself -- and that when we learn to do a thing, we can gain an appreciation for the difficulty of doing it well, and stop underappreciating the people who do it for us. Just because a thing is simple does not make it easy.

And so I believe very strongly in siding with the undervalued and the truly oppressed people in this world. There is a biblical injunction to do it and protecting people who need protected runs very deeply in my bones. The trade policies that have allowed Reebok and Nike and all the rest to take a 1000+% markup by riding on the backs of what amounts to slavery ought to at least bother us. People on the left give lip-service to social justice, et al, but still go shopping for the cheapest widgets made in the most dire hell-holes in east Asia. My friends on the traditional right hew so closely to the "market fixes everything" Eloi/Morlock ethos that they don't see how making literally nothing here is going to be our ruination, just like ancient Rome's.

This is not to give cover for the victim mentality of people too lazy or stupid or evil to actually apply themselves to the business of acquiring and employing skills both they and the market wants -- it is simply a statement that somebody as smart and hardworking as I am, whose only shortfall is living in a place where the prevailing wage is $5/day ought to make a wage commensurate with the value they provide me.

Henry Ford was a Nazi and he understood this. I wonder why the entire western world has such a hard time understanding it.

I've made it my ambition to try to pay people what their service is worth to me, which is almost always a bit more than the market says they're worth. I don't haggle over a subcontractor's price and my guys are paid above union scale. I may have missed some money along the way, but my house is paid for and my conscience is clear.

Buying sneakers is harder. I don't think this is a thing for the government to regulate -- I think this is a thing for decent people to recognize as a problem. A rising tide really ought to float everybody's boat. A race to the bottom ends up drowning all of us.