squeaking like a squeaky thing.......

Hi Ger,

 

Worn bushings are usually the cause of squeaky noises, particularly sway bar bushings.  You can try spraying on a lube of your choice to the bushings as a temporary fix.  If it quiets things down, worn bushings are the cause of the noise.  Very soft, stock rubber bushings give a soft ride, while harder bushings are more performance-oriented, but may give a harder ride.  If you bring a sample to your local supplier, he should be able to give you some options.  Best of luck!

It misses balmy (not so this week) FL weather!  Do you have rubber gaskets on doors and lids?  Fiberglass on fiberglass makes an awful noise.  Also grease the front beam.

Thanks folks.....

 

Come to think of it, I just put it all together using the parts supplied......it had been sitting unbuilt in a garage in FL for a long time......I'll hit the beam with some grease and spray the swaybar bushes. What about the rear, any possible suspects there?

 

Weather has been really crap here for weeks on end......raining hard most of today ! 

Gerry,  more places to look:

 

 

The rear torsion bar bushings may be dry.  The book tells you to dust them with talcum powder, but I have much better luck with CV joint grease.  If you have an IRS rear, the diagonal arm bushings may be dry, too.  Silicon grease on those if you've got urethane bushings, CV joint grease of they are stock.

 

Another place to look at is the sill, just outside of the seat cushions.  That is about where the two body halves meet and if they are not perfectly joined with gobs and gobs of fiberglass resin they will separate and then chafe and squeak With movement.  Check under the sill beneath the car there, too.

 

Another squeaky-thing I've found is shock mounts.  Penetrating oil should work on those (they may require regular re-squirts).

 

Another one is the door latch bumpers - those little black rubber thingies as part of the latch.  Silicone spray on them silences them - in fact, if you're using rubber door weather strip, try spraying the rubber with silicone spray.....it's good stuff!

 

It might also help to bring along a passenger who can discriminate different noises and crawl around the cockpit while underway to try to pinpoint the sources.  There will probably be several different sources.

someone previously mentioned bushings.. can you make the car squeak when it is parked?? If you try and move the car while its parked will it squeak. I had to pull myy front and rear sway bars off and apply some grease to the urathane bushings. I also found after a few hundred miles that I needed to re torque my bumper mounts both on the bumpers as well as where they mount to the chassis.

Rear torsion bar bushings can cause squeaks also..... ( How do he know ? )  

I worked for two weeks chasing down a squeak om my Intermecannica wide body and greased the crap out of the outer torsion ring. It would go away for a couple drives and then come right back. Ended up being the inner bushing on my car and wouldn't ya know it.....there was an installed grease fitting from Im and with a shot of lube the squeak disappeared.  Install a fitting and see.  Tom

Yes, yes, yes! I have the same problem. I talked to Roland R. about replacing the bushings and install the grease fittings to keep it lubed and make it last.

 

A little lube goes a long way... know what I mean?

 Yes Yes Yes drill and tap and install grease zerks at all moton points including the foot petals and the rear trailin arms between the rear wheel bearings on thoses  cars with IRS.  and even the steering colum

 

Makes for a lot of easy mantainace

I didn't notice any squeeks when last driven, but did hear a squeek while rolling it about in it's winter hibernating state. Taking 'oldyeler's' suggestion I may drill and tap obvious motion points for lube nipples...but I'm concerned about extracting any metal flakes from that process.

 

Is there a very thin magnet that can be inserted to pull those flakes out? If not, how would I go about magnitizing a nail to do the job? 

Thanks for all of the feedback folks !

 

I have a few days off work so as soon as it stops raining here, I'll get out with the grease gun !

 

Regarding spring plate covers, these are just an unbolt, grease replace operation? I'm not gonna end up with a face full of springs/washers.circlips when I unbolt the cover.........

 

Cheers

Gerry

No springs but you may have to pry it away the rubber

The trailing arms / flex plates will keep you from removing the seals....  You can nudge the seals around and massage grease into the gaps....  The lube nipple idea would seem to work in the rear / flexplate area....   I used RU-Lube, a rubber lubricant I got from my local tire store....  Worked if you used it 2 - 3 times a year...

OK, first things first:

 

HAPPY NEW YEARS SPEEDSTAHFOLKS!!

 

Carl:  You need a magnetized screw driver.  I have an electric magnetizer/demagnetizer in the shop, but one of these would work just fine:

 

 

Next, the trailing arm bushings:  The cover is removed by removing the four bolts holding it on.  There are no springs, levers or anyting that will jump out at you.  There are two rubber bushings, each the size of a Bagel (or a large scone, for you folks north of Hadrian's wall), one on the inside of the spring plate and another on the outside.  The inside one is relatively smooth with nothing but friction and pressure holding it in place.  The outer one has small ears moulded into it that are received by corresponding depressions in the cover - it only goes on one way. W/O removing everything, they are almost impossible to grease unless you've had the forethought to drill holes in them to line up with a grease fitting added to the cover and to the back side of the torsion bar cover area.  Even then, it's difficult to get grease down there to the bar end.  I pump a bunch in there every so often and hope that the pressure pushes it in between the bushing and the bar.  Honestly don't know if it does or not, but I don't see any coming out and it doesn't squeak.  I suppose these passages/fittings could be added w/o removing the cover at all (pull the wheel, though, for more working freedom) and metal shavings can be caught with a magnet.

 

This can, potentially, be a wee bit of work but might make your rear suspension quieter.  I would ascertain for sure that those bushings are squeaking before I go to all this effort.

Gerry - one more thing:

 

In order to even SEE the inner bushing you have to remove the outer cover, then pop the spring plate off of the down stop in the torsion bar housing (there is a lot of stored energy there and it can be dangerous unless you do it right), then pull the bar/spring plate straight out as far as possible (on a CMC that's about 6 inches) and THEN you can see the inner bushing.  The only way you can replace that bushing on a CMC is to cut one side, open it up and pull it out.  The new one going in must be cut on one side, opened up, placed around the bar and then super-glue the ends back together before liberally greasing it and pushing it into the receiving cup.  Then the spring plate has to go back exactly where it was (it has inner and outer splines) to keep your ride height the same.

 

Sounds less and less likely that the squeak might be there, right?

 

I may have a step-by-step guide to do it with pictures.  I'll look around and see if I can find it (it used to be on the now gone "Speedster Shop" web site).

 

gn 

"Sounds less and less likely that the squeak might be there, right?"

 

Gordon, that didn't bubble coffee out my nose...but came damn close.

Grease for bearings, metal bushings, and a compatible grease for urethane bushings. Rubber bushings don't use grease, they're made to clamp solidly to both parts and the rubber itself twists for movement. Greasing them can wear them out prematurely or the grease can disintegrate the rubber.

Thanks for all of the replies folks, I still have not made the time to get out and get under.....Far too cold out there !!

One degree C and 83% humidity at midnight, your time.

 

Yeah, I guess!

 

Stay under the blankets, Ger!

OK So I finally got around to looking at this issue......Pulled the cover plate and ended up with a handful of plastic !!

 

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Guess replacement of this bush will be my starting point,,,,,,,,Though now I'm worried about the state of the inner bush......

 

Not having a VW shop close, I'll get a pair of bushes ordered up.

 

Also have another small issue with hub runout....I'll start a new thread

Yikes!

That seems to be a built-in safety feature of urethane bushings.  They magically tell you it's time for replacement through a wondrous thing called "catastrophic failure."

 

Ger:

 

Hope I'm not too late, but I never use Urethane bushings on the rear torsion bars.  They send a lot of road noise back into the car and ride a bit (lot) stiffer.  If you can get the rubber version, use those.  If not, just live with the Urethane kind.

X 2; I believe the VW Service Manual instructs the use of talcum powder when installing the OEM rubber type. Like Gord says the stock type gives a smoother ride and is probably the preferred kind in these lightweight cars. Apart from the urethane type there's a "middle of the road" type called Prothane which is gloss black and made by Bugpack, I believe. The urethane as well as the Prothane use a proprietary lubricant that comes in the package; obviously use it when installing.

I have formally given up on Talcum powder on these bushings.  Partly because modern "Talcum" powder has no talcum in it (it has a whole bunch of synthetic stuff in there) and partly because the modern stuff works for about 6 months and then dries out and squeaks again.

 

I've had MUCHO better luck with CV joint grease.  Seems to last years, is pretty easy to apply and is readily available everywhere.  I have played with adding grease fittings to the area around the rear bushings, but haven't quite perfected the concept yet.  It's a great idea, though, so think about how you might get some grease in there between the torsion bar/spring plates and the bushings and make it work.

 

Oh!......and the only difference between the Red and Black urethane bushings ("Prothane" or otherwise) is the color.  I believe that Prothane is made in America (both colors and others) and is only sold as Prothane by resellers like CB Performance and others.  If they say it's Prothane, it probably (might) be.  If not, it's made in Asia and probably (might) fit.

Interesting about the Prothane. I thought it was different because Bugpack markets it as different being that they also manufacture the red urethane ones.

not ordered bushes yet but I will be using rubber for sure !! ( I always take the line that the manufacturer usually knew best !)

 

I'm not really that keen on tackling in inner bush if I can get away with it, gonna do the outer bushes first and see how it goes. Are they all the same size? Whats difference between knobbly and smooth bush, whats best for road only ?

 

However. looking on worst case, any comprehensive guides out there??

If I remember correctly the smooth round one goes inside and the knobby one goes outside. You'll be perfectly fine with stock rubber; and it's usually cheaper too.

If I remember correctly the smooth round one goes inside and the knobby one goes outside. You'll be perfectly fine with stock rubber; and it's usually cheaper too.

i'm with Gordon on this.  OEM rubber with a thin coat of wheel bearing grease.

 

and mine goes up and down a lot.

OK, so I couldn't shift the spring plate.....

knobbly rubber bush would not fit on my adjustable spring plates, (since found out that they use a non stock, urethane bush. I used a stock, rubber smooth bush instead.

 

Anyway I squirted in some silicone spray where I could and rubber grease on outer bush.

 

Result.........

 

Silence !!!!!  What a difference in driving experience Then the sun came out and I went for a wee run, even managed to get the wife to come along :0

 

thanks for all of your input folks

That's strange; you shouldn't have a problem with the fit on those parts; even with adjustable spring plates. Anyway, I'm glad your problem went away.

Have a look at step 3 on this link... Definite need for oversize bush...

 

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/...hp?f=51&t=137122

 

there was no way the oem rubber was going to fit, knocked out coverplate holes by 1/4" (even with long bolts it just would not align)

Very good article. Exactly what it says; ironic that the spring plates on my car look identical to the ones on your car and in the article and yet the stock bushings fit. God knows.

there were many diferent size bushings,some big Id some small Id ,somme had knobs some were just a round donut.just getting the right parts is what is required.or remachining them,I put a set on my lathe to open up the id.I wont use the "special grezzee" on my 356 ,but rather synthetic greezzee witch isant stickey&thick, dont use any wd or petrolium oil on poly it can be disasterious. also use some anti seezzee on the threads of the bolts&adjuster bolt.I put the snazy chrome covers on mine so it would be fast,I also went from the long torsion bars to the short bars for tire clearance issues(tires wouldnt go on the long bars were in the way)short bars no issue & stiffer rate.ill put the short bars on my 356 too with taller tires.

Yes there are several different bushings depending on year/parts.

 

URETHANE GROMMETS FOR REAR TORSION SUSPENSION
SWING AXLE FOR STOCK SPRING PLATE
YEAR        VEHICLE        INSIDE          DESCRIPTION          OUTSIDE          DESCRIPTION
1950-1960   Type I         6588-13         1 7/8” Round         6587-11          1 7/8” Knobby
1961-1968   Type I         6587-11         1 7/8” Knobby        6587-10          1 3/4” Knobby
1965-1968   Type III       6587-11         1 7/8” Knobby        6587-11          1 7/8” Knobby

IRS AXLE FOR STOCK SPRING PLATE
1969-1979   Type I+III     6587-11         1 7/8” Knobby        6588-12          1 7/8” Round
1968        Auto-trans     6587-11         1 7/8” Knobby        6588-12          1 7/8” Round

 

Bugpack part numbers:
6587-10 Knobby Type Grommets, 1-3/4” I.D.
6587-11 Knobby Type Grommets, 1-7/8” I.D.
6587-12 Knobby Type Grommets, 2” I.D.
6587-13 Flanged Grommets, 2-1/4” O.D. x 1-7/8” I.D.
6587-14 Flanged Grommets, 2-1/4” O.D. x 1-3/4” I.D.
6587-15 Flanged Grommets, 2” O.D. x 1-3/4” I.D.
6587-16 Flange Only Grommet , 1-7/8” x .187”
6588-10 Round Type Grommets, 1-3/4” I.D.
6588-12 Round Type Grommets, 1-7/8” I.D. IRS
6588-13 Round Type Grommets, 1-7/8” I.D. Small O.D.

6587-16 Grommet is designed for custom torsion housings only and is used between the spring plate and the torsion housing (inboard side) while the 6587-13, 14, 15 grommets are used on the outboard side of the spring plate when utilizing custom torsion/spring plate cover.

All Sway-A-Way™ regular spring plates use 1 7/8” outside and 1 3/4” inside grommets. All Sway-A-Way™ adjustable spring plates use 1 7/8” outside and 2” inside.

Prothane may not have any difference between colors, but Energy Suspension's black versions are graphite impregnated for better lubrication whereas their red are not.

Ger:

 

That silicon oil shot in there should work for a while (half a season or so) and then you may have to get in there and give it an update shot from time to time.  I've used that trick, too, and it seems to work well.  As far as I can tell, the spring plate surface metal against the rubber bushings is what's making the noise, so blasting a lot of silicon oil in there makes them wet enough to quiet down.

 

Besides, it's cheap and easy to apply often, if needed.  I wonder how well "KY" oil would work?