i just read that Bernie Madoff just became part owner...
I give up.
Stan Galat posted:I give up.
Seems like the wisest course of action at this point.
Stan Galat posted:I give up.
DITTO
Banzai Pipeline posted:When a gentleman, who recently purchased a new VS suggests that his wife might steer him towards a STARKE.......his budget has MORE THAN DOUBLED...and is a wink away from TRIPLED........so LET'S BE REAL....
These are APPLES and ORANGES...NOT APPLES and APPLES
Agreed. Apples and Oranges. There's no way I would put $80k into a VS (or Beck or IM for that matter). Nor would I buy the real thing (apart from a trailer queen investment).
I think these Speedster/Spyder specialty cars are priced appropriately for what they are. But for those looking for something different than our 80yo car tech, the Stärke looks to fill a niche between modern cars that look like everything else you see and these old beauties from a different time.
I think the reality is that WE (SOCs) are the minority. As much as I love my Speedster, and give friends and family the opportunity to drive it and experience the joy, I couldn't really see any of them pulling the trigger on one for themselves. Not because of budget. It's a special person that wants to own our cars. Lots want to look at them, take pictures with them, and ride in them, but very very few want to actually own them (even those that can afford to do so).
Yes $80k is a lot of money. But looking out at my office parking lot today I see a whole lot more $80k cars than I do Speedsters (or the like). Maybe I should go tell them what a waste that was? That they should by a VS instead? Of course not.
Look, I get it. When you love something, it's hard to understand why people might love something different. Especially people with different budgets than you. Just the same, I don't understand why someone would spend any of their hard-earned retirement getting worked up about something like this. But maybe I'll feel differently when I retire. You do you Banzai.
Keep innovating @Starke Speedsters! Plenty of us are looking forward to seeing more next month!
There are a lot more people with bigger toy money than us replica owners...
Bill Prout posted:There are a lot more people with bigger toy money than us replica owners...
YES INDEED...but putting STARKE aside, I dont know how many of them are going to DROP 80K on a look-a-like speedster with a USED Boxster engine/chassis? Sure they can buy a PORSCHE 911, ALFA, BENZ, LOTUS.......CAYMAN, LEXUS, McClaren...etc. I guess another option wont hurt...I'm eager to see how they fare......or not!
Banzai Pipeline posted:...I dont know how many of them are going to DROP 80K on a look-a-like speedster with a USED Boxster engine/chassis? and blah be blah be blah....
Just wait a month and we'll see if they have something at SEMA. And if they do, a year or so and we'll find out how enthusiastic the public is. If there is a (somewhat) finished car at SEMA I'm betting there'll be enough interest that they build a couple. Whether or not they can make it work long term, we'll just have to wait and see...
While it may not be for everyone, there may be a huge group of people who will think it is cool. Modern components, with a retro look will really grab peoples attention and more to the point their pocket books. Price point be damned by the guys and gals who want it. There is not shortage of niche vehicles with high starting points. One of my favorites is The FJ Company, with a starting point of 75k and escalates to 120k very quickly. I am not sure you have the data that says the biz plan is flawed and I would guess people ripped IM, Beck and likes in the beginning for building high end replicas. I look forward to seeing what they can do and commend them for taking a risk.
Banzai some may find your 60k plastic potato silly and rip you for wasting your money on a glorified go cart. Just give it a rest man... oh and lay off the caps.
Just imagine how long it will take them to pump out the first five cars...People could wait years, sound familiar?
Joe Fortino posted:While it may not be for everyone, there may be a huge group of people who will think it is cool. Modern components, with a retro look will really grab peoples attention and more to the point their pocket books. Price point be damned by the guys and gals who want it. There is not shortage of niche vehicles with high starting points. One of my favorites is The FJ Company, with a starting point of 75k and escalates to 120k very quickly. I am not sure you have the data that says the biz plan is flawed and I would guess people ripped IM, Beck and likes in the beginning for building high end replicas. I look forward to seeing what they can do and commend them for taking a risk.
Banzai some may find your 60k plastic potato silly and rip you for wasting your money on a glorified go cart. Just give it a rest man... oh and lay off the caps.
I was a missionary in Papua New Guinea in the late 80's. The "bucks up" missions and the government had FJ40 Land Cruisers- we had Suzuki "utes" and a couple of Daihatsus.
The 'cruisers were certainly no better- just bigger.
$75K, huh? More power to 'em.
Those Fj40 are tanks!
Wow. The FJ Company is awesome. Thanks for pointing it out @Joe Fortino. Looks like there's plenty of market to support $75-$150k cruisers since they employ 150+ engineers, technicians, and craftsman in a 75k sq.ft. facility. I've never visited VS, Beck, or IM, but I would guess their combined resources wouldn't touch what FJ.co has accomplished in the past 8 years.
It sure seems like there's plenty of room to grow for companies like Stärke. I welcome the innovation. As far as I'm concerned, future owners are welcome here. I'd have a blast chasing a Stärke through the hills. Looking forward to its release. Eager to see it in photos and in person.
Then there is ICON. When they first released their cars no one thought the market could bare a 120k-160k FJ40s. All their cool cars now start at 6 figures... and the line to have them build a car for you is around the corner,. They started w/ FJ40's and years later they still deliver FJs, and have expanded to virtually anything you want modernized! And their business is booming!
They created the 6 figure FJ market space... go figure!
There is a lot of $$ out there, and guys/galls love their toys. There are definitely buts for every seat, across all price points. ....And cars are cheap compared to boats and planes!
Cant wait to see what Starke comes up with.
Cheers
Final words: BLESS YOU ALL...be SAFE......but it AINT HAPPENIN
Banzai Pipeline posted:Final words: BLESS YOU ALL...be SAFE......but it AINT HAPPENIN
Lol, "The Hate is Strong" with this one...
There are a lot of 'kit cars' out there. Cobras, GS Vettes, 917's, Ferraris, Fj's, Willys, Speedsters, Power Wagons, early Broncos. Full on custom hot rod builds, prerunners, etc. Some may start as a real body, or frame, some not. They all fuel the gear head in us, as most all of us here are. I like 'em all. I can't throw my money at all of them lol, but power to the person that spends his (or hers) beaucoup bucks on their lusted after custom vehicle.
It is American excess to throw money at some lusted after object of desire. I say go for it! ...While the stock market is at 22K!
And our 'plastic cars? Many kits cars are plastic. Fiberglass or more recently carbon fiber. Corvette made a career of it.
I don't get the rub. Sure, we all could spend our money more wisely.
Now I do have an issue with Barrett Jackson inflating prices by wealthy guys ridiculously throwing their money at anything and everything. B-J (or auctions in general) have single handedly driven old car prices (and motorcycles too) out of the average joe's affordability.
Now where's that watermelon...
Bill Prout posted:Banzai Pipeline posted:Final words: BLESS YOU ALL...be SAFE......but it AINT HAPPENIN
Lol, "The Hate is Strong" with this one...
ONLY LOVE....with a splash...
You guys seem very scared of the impending Stärke Speedster! I always knew it was a great idea but now I know I've hit the nail squarely on the head judging by your nervous reactions. Be prepared to be silenced gentleman.
Hey, I only see (or more correctly, read) one guy here who's blatantly negative!
We're all hoping you succeed. As President Stan says, it's a big tent, and there's room for you too!
Starke Speedsters posted:You guys seem very scared of the impending Stärke Speedster! I always knew it was a great idea but now I know I've hit the nail squarely on the head judging by your nervous reactions. Be prepared to be silenced gentleman.
That's as funny as a ONE LEGGED MAN IN AN ASS KICKING CONTEST
I have an idea. Starke should invite BANZAI to SEMA to see the finished car...
Starke Speedsters posted:...Be prepared to be silenced gentleman...
Silenced?
This group?
We may be rough. We may be rude. We may be righteous, reckless, or just plain wrong, but it's unlikely we'll ever be without words.
Bring on the Starke! I think we'd all like to see it and to see it succeed, although it's not likely to woo us from our silly, plastic cars.
For the most part, we are anomalies. We've fallen through life's cracks. We're outside the lines on most Venn diagrams. We don't play well with focus groups. We think there's such a thing as too much progress. We like a little oil on our hands and on our garage floors.
But don't let that discourage you. Many people with common sense and uncommon style should find a lot to like about the Starke - if it looks like your artwork and drives like a Boxster and costs like what the ad copy says it will.
Please, stop reading rambling posts like this. You've got a lot of work to do and the clock is ticking.
It seems someone will be eating crow come late October. Whomever it turns out to be, I hope they have the integrity to do it publicly.
As I've said before, I hope you succeed, but I don't see myself driving a "357".
Only a couple of people out of the hundreds who frequent or lurk on this site have taken you to task.
Maybe not a good PR move to paint us all with the same brush in your last post, but it is consistent with the bombastic nature of your marketing copy, and therein may be the source of the backlash to your campaign.
Contrary to your original post "the world" hasn't been waiting breathlessly for sixty years for you to develop this car, and, I can't fathom why you think anybody should be "scared" of what you are doing. If there is a niche for your product, the market will tell you. The current established manufacturers of replica Speedsters will probably continue to do just fine regardless of what you do.
Some folks are interested, and welcome your efforts, but the sun will probably rise every morning in October and every day after whether you deliver or not.
Take a breath, assess your place in the world, stay enthused, but hire a professional to write your ad and marketing copy, and focus on delivering a nice prototype at SEMA rather than bouncing back with insults at all of us.
You didn't ask for this advice, but you might consider it. Rarely a good idea to put insults in writing aimed at your potential customers. I assume, since you have paid for ad space on this site and posted numerous times about your product, that you consider us potential customers.
And, I doubt anybody here will be silenced, with either their praise or criticism of your "357".
Humble works!
Panhandle Bob posted:And, I doubt anybody here will be silenced, with either their praise or criticism of your "357".
Humble works!
The PLAIN and SMALL of it...for me...is SIMPLE: I, like many others, enjoy the look of yesteryear and the bath tub, now readily available in a rustproof body with modern conveniences that largely make it more comfortable AND outperform the original! If I wanted something else, like a BOXSTER, 911, or (?), I would buy one as I have in the past. Many have mistaken my Speedster for an original but I LIKE IT because it brings back time.......and drives like a 911.
I really dont mind the 357 despite the fact that it does NOT look like a 50s tub nor would I EVER MISTAKE one for one......just as the FORD TBird of the 2000s. I just would NEVER buy one(357 or TBird).......and its hard for me to extrapolate a good reason for buying a used BOXSTER with a 357 body. I AM curious as to WHO might plunk down 80K plus on a used BOXSTER that does NOT look like one, NOR looks like a 356 but there are probably a few.....
I am having trouble grasping the SIZE of that niche and the BUSINESS MODEL long term. It has NO appeal to me but I also HATE asparagus and goat cheese....altho neither costs 80K AND I do like broccoli, kale, and swiss. I AM curious like many others and eager to see how many are sold and whether they succeed where John deLorean and Homer deSoto failed. STARKE may succeed which is fine....I have my doubts but I AM fine with it......just entertained and opinionated about the prospects.
IF WE LET YOU HAVE THE LAST WORD, WILL YOU STOP?
^^^What Stan said^^^ You've made your point- you don't think it's a good idea and you don't think anyone will buy it. We get it. You've been very opinionated right from your very first posts, which is fine (everyone is entitled) and we all know where you stand on this one. All it is at this point is more blah be blah be blah and you've done that already. Let's wait and see what happens.
ALB posted:Banzai Pipeline posted:...I dont know how many of them are going to DROP 80K on a look-a-like speedster with a USED Boxster engine/chassis? and blah be blah be blah....Just wait a month and we'll see if they have something at SEMA. And if they do, a year or so and we'll find out how enthusiastic the public is. If there is a (somewhat) finished car at SEMA I'm betting there'll be enough interest that they build a couple. Whether or not they can make it work long term, we'll just have to wait and see...
Starke Speedsters posted:You guys seem very scared of the impending Stärke Speedster! I always knew it was a great idea but now I know I've hit the nail squarely on the head judging by your nervous reactions. Be prepared to be silenced gentleman.
Here's what is really behind all the doubters... There have been many fly by night companies that have come on here touting their product and they take large deposits of money from people then they don't deliver and disappear.
Because you have never produced a photo of your product but are willing to accept deposits you have put yourself into that spotlight of scrutiny. I think it ridiculous to think anyone here is scared of your product, on the contrary, we are all waiting to see what you got and are excited about it.
I also think that for most of us this car of yours is not a fit but it is interesting to look at and talk about. The feedback that you get here may help you improve upon it's features. You can expect a few on here to shred you and your car in these posts but trust me most of us are patiently awaiting it's arrival!
Once you have a few cars produced and the owners have given reviews the doubters will still doubt but you will then have some street cred here. So stick around and keep up the fight and the posts because the majority of us are with you and want you to succeed.
Just wanted to clarify with an explanation....I wish all good health and success but apparently rubbed some folks the wrong way with the enthusiasm of opinion. As a scientist, I sometimes try to offer perspective and rationale. My apologies to those who take offense.....no more from me......be SAFE.
Not for me, but I really would like to see Starke succeed.
We just have a different audience here.
Not to take away from Starke, as it is an option (when it shows real cars being produced). But if I was to do an on the cheap Boxster (my next door neighbor just got a fully maintained, IMS bearing already replaced, fresh brakes, cherry 2001 Boxster for 7K), I would put a body kit on it, giving it some more aggressive 911 queues. Done deal.
If I was going to spend more money, a real '70-'75 911 in nasty outlaw fashion would be my desire (yes to throw some money at )
But I will settle with my to be plastic coupe. That will be enough car for me.
Seeing an aggressive Starke could be some real eye candy though.
First ever 357 Speedster spy photo? This was online but the site will no longer connect.
I took a fresh look at the Starke website just now.
I was struck by the cost of the upgrades.....
$15,000 for wood trim in the cabin
$2,000 for plaid cloth seat inserts ($1,000 per seat)
etc..........
WOW!
Holy $hit! $120K + and you have to provide the donor car...
I SAY NOTHING(LOL)
Bill Prout posted:Holy $hit! $120K + and you have to provide the donor car...
While I'm likin' it, Bill, it's still just pictures...
This just in Starke found the last known plastic sealed Cheech n Chong's ...Big Bamboo album and is still ...inhaling it.
Starke is probably Steve Lawing's brother-in-law!