Started my build - removing the gas tank

Starting with 1977 beetle and am generally following the CMC manual that is on this site.

I am removing the gas tank but the manual doesnt really mention the two additional tubes *below* the gas tank that connect to either torsion tube and what looks to be a fuel filter. These prevent me from removing the gas tank.

What is the best way to remove these tubes? I am trying to find something that I can use to plug these lines below the tank but I dont know if they make some rubber stops or something like that for these lines.

One is the FI return line - is other the feed line? Tank isn't still filled with fuel is it? If so I'd simply drain it to a gas can.

Theres some, not a ton, of gas in there. maybe half a gallon

Best way to drain it?

You can pinch off all the lines (vice grips)and then remove the tank and pour it out from the top.

You may want to consider a new tank for your build. The old ones are usually filled with crud which will make your first drives just a nightmare.

exciting to start a new project!

i have to say, and please don't take this personally, it get a LOT harder than draining and pulling a gas tank. My site has over 1500 photos that document the build of my ride. It should help in the troubleshooting / problem solving area. there an infinite number of ways to do things on these cars. It's helpful to see how others solved a problem, then with your tools and experience at your side - you solve as you see fit.

for the tank - just plug the line with a bolt and stick on a hose clamp. Pour out the gas when the tank is out.

also - if it is a fuel injection tank - that's good. That will leave you all kinds of options for fuel injection or gas heaters when the time is right.

Do you have a body?

I understand that its going to get a lot of harder than pulling a gas tank, and I'm OK with that. I'm starting this project both because I like Speedsters and for the learning experience of it all (I know more than most, but I don't know a ton about cars). Glad to have a resource like you guys to help me through it.

If you mean a new body, then no, I do not have one yet but will most likely choose the flared by JPS. I'm taking my time in restoring the chasis, getting the front & rear just right (air ride, just like yours) and building everything else up from there. It's not something that I hope will come together in 2 months, but I do want to make a concerted effort at it.

If you mean a beetle body on the current pan, then yes, it's still in place. I'm following the CMC manual for now and will most likely sell the beetle body once done.

i meant a speedster body.

Also - I'd recommend not cutting the pan until you have the body. i spent several night trying to get the body to fit the pan perfectly.

Ask all the questions you need on the air suspension (and anything else for that matter). I couldn't find any help when doing my air setup. vendors keep this info close to their chests.

DS-

I recommend that you think hard about this. Really, really hard.

This is no small undertaking here. I know the promise was 40 hours or some such pipe-dream in the CMC manual, but honestly- unless you've got a lifetime of skills and tools to call on, you'd be worlds ahead to work a little extra at what you are good at, and pay somebody else to do this for you.

Forewarned is forearmed.

With all due respect, and I do mean this nicely, your statement is just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

If I paid someone else to do this for me then I wouldn't be learning anything else than what I already know . . . and what kind of fulfilling life would that be? Spare me the Adam Smith theories of specialization. I've got two hands over here - I'm capable of keeping my day job and then tooling around in my garage at night, you know!

"A man is made wise not by what he knows, but what he realizes he does not know".

i totally agree - i'd never have paid someone to build this car for me. not cause i am a cheapo, but cause i wouldn't have learned anything.

It will take you a lot longer to learn and do - unlike "the doc" on the site who has build a lot of these speedies and can build them with his eyes closed and one arm tied behind his back.

My build took a little over two years of evenings, weekend and holidays in a full stocked garage and i have a lot of mechanical experience and am a certed welder. like mentioned above - forget that 40 hr pipe-dream unless you want a car that looks like you slapped it together in 40 hrs.

You would not believe the number of people who said I should have not even thought about tackling my project on my own! And I mean "on my own".

Well, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person here with some common sense! :)

The whole point of building a car is to *learn* something. Besides, I have various personal reasons for doing this.

I am an extremely talented (and modest!) computer programmer by day. I can make *anything* happen with a computer. I'm gainfully employed and very happy with it. However, it's a very unique kind of engineering because I just press buttons to make my code work - how it actually happens with the electrons and what-not, is not visible to me. I just trust that it works. But I need my engineering to be a bit more physical than that. I like to see what I'm doing and actually see things work.

As I was telling a friend earlier, if I take two gears that are 10-inches apart from each other and they're both supposed to turn, then I can actually *see* that I'm missing something. It's obvious it won't work. But with computers, you don't always get that level of insight and that's what I'm looking for . . . insight.

there is something seriously rewarding to building something from scratch with your own hands. the more physical the better.

I own a commercial refrigeration service company- we work on supermarkets, and the like.

I work with my hands every day. Over the years I've accumulated a large heated shop with a MIG welder, several torch sets, a big compressor, a blast cabinet, a pressure feed sandblaster, a soda blaster, a powder-coat gun, three paint guns, a 2 post lift, two work benches, a drill press, a bench grinder, a heated pressure washer, 2 roll-away chests full of tools, and a lifetime of experience with mechanical stuff.

With all this at my disposal- there are quite a few things I pay somebody else to do, precisely because they do it better, faster, and cheaper than I can do it. I'm good at what I do, and people pay me well to do it. I'm WAY ahead to do just what I advised you to do, and let somebody else do what they're good at, while I do what I'm good at. I've done all of it, but I've distilled down what I'm good at. I do those things, and leave the frustration for somebody else.

If it's a matter of picking up some skills, then by all means- knock yourself out. But if you for a minute think that you are going to do this faster, better, or less expensively than you can pay somebody to do it for you- you sir, are mistaken. Nearly all skills of this type are learned well before your 30th birthday, most are learned before your 20th. Your crazy-skills in one area are likely only going to highlight your lack of them in another, and frustrate you.

If it's cubicle-therapy, then go ahead- but keep in mind that you've got a long haul ahead of you, and a couple of lines on the gas tank is just the tip of the tip of the iceberg. I'm guessing that 6 months from now this project won't seem too much like therapy. I hope I'm wrong. But for every 50 guys that starts a build in his one car garage with $200 worth of Harbor Freight tools and a dream, there's one that finishes.

It's harsh, but true. Dumb? I'll concede it was dumb when you finish.

FWIW, your quote proves my point, not yours. Something from H D Thoreau would have been better- perhaps: "If one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."

Perhaps. But, I'll stick with my advice- forewarned is forearmed.

You know how NORAD tracks Santa during the holidays for the kids?

They just came out with a special report on The Grinch and he's currently being tracked over Tremont, IL . . .

Amen! I think the Magician should chime in here. I would call him the foremost expert on home built or rebuilt kits. But opinions are that, just opinions. In addition, most of the garage built kits I have seen in person and on the net look like "elcrapo" not to be confused with El Guapo. Once in a while we some awesome work like the cars from Mango, Gordon, Alan, that dude from Australia, and a few I am sure I left out. Some farming out may lead to a better product in the end. Good luck with your build, the fun is endless in these cars once they hit the road.


Marty G.

Stan,

I don't think I can agree with you on all your points. I don't have all the fancy tools you do. Heck....I don't even work with my hands for a living...just my brains while sitting at a desk all day. My hobby is just that...a hobby. I bring old neglected kits back to life. I have never lost a penny on any of them. Haven't gotten rich either. But it keeps me and my wife happy and my kid can still go to college in a few years.

I got my CMC as a wreck for $2500.00. You can see...it was WRECKED. Henry at Intermeccanica was nice enough to ship me a replacement fender. I did the rest of the work. Was it as nice as a Vintage? Heck no....of course it was 1/3rd the price. Did it drive well? It sure did. Did it stop well? It sure did. Was it safe? Yup...safe as these things can be. In fact, the Kelmark kit that I sold right before this was purchased by someone in North Carolina. He flew to Massachusetts with a small overnight bag, bought the car, and drove it back in two days to his home. The only thing that happened was a hot air heater hose slipped off. Not bad for its first shake down run!

I do all my own body work. I have never had any training. I have a decent spray gun, but several on my early cars were painted in my back yard with a $20 gun and a little compressor that has its own wheels. There is no way anyone could have done all the body work I did for cheaper. Impossible. Faster? Maybe. But not cheaper. The same with most everything else. Faster? Almost certainly. Cheaper? No way. This paint job and all the materials for the body work (less fender) was $400.00.

Another aspect is wiring. Nobody can wire a car cheaper than me. That is if you can find someone to do it in the first place. Same thing with rebuilding the suspension. Other than pressing in new ball joints (which I pay $40 for), there is no one that can do it as cheaply as me. Faster? Maybe...cause I do work for a living, but not any better nor any cheaper.

Now if I want a fancy interior....I would go to a pro. I had my Mom sew a little detail into the door panels on my car (it cost a hug) and she made my shift boot and e-brake boot for the same hug.

Its not that I don't find some wisdom in your response, its just that it is such a blanket statement. You don't have to be a German mechanic to build one of these. You need to be someone who wants to, and doesn't mind asking for some help.

Nice job Jeff, be very proud of what you've done...We'll expect you at Carlisle 2010. ~ Alan

Oh! And a couple of current, "In Process" pics:

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/speedstahguy/DSC02997.jpg

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/speedstahguy/DSC03000.jpg

And my current favorite (it looks like sooooo many other unfinished kits):

http://i593.photobucket.com/albums/tt14/speedstahguy/DSC03043.jpg

I'm with Jeff - again!

I used to be like Stan, though, when I was working for a big company, the kid's college educations were all paid for and money wasn't anything I thought about. I even tried to find someone, anyone, who would finish my kit for me and came up almost empty. In the end, as I was getting super-frustrated that it wasn't getting done and I wanted a show-quality finish to the body, I realized that, while I can paint a car pretty well, it made a LOT more sense to have a professional shop do all of the body prep work as well as paint it. It cost a small fortune and far more than I would now pay in retirement but I had the money to throw at it back then, so....what the hell.

DS: You and Simon Hambly have a LOT in common beyond wanting to paint components different colors. He's a software weanie, too.

I managed New Product Introductions in Engineering groups for 30 years - both hardware and software. Managing several product intros at the same time in my last company, as we experienced over 300% growth per year and were trying to shorten intro times from 24 months to 11 months, sent me to the hospital and almost killed me. My doctor (and also my mentor at work) convinced me to get a hobby, so I built a Speedster (I had built a slew of dune buggies back in the 60's and 70's). The idea was to get my mind off of work when I got home, so, in a way, I didn't really have a completion timetable but expected it to take about 6 months (it was a CMC). In the end, with work interruptions, expansion of the job and LOTS of international travel it took about eight (8) years to get the thing done.

Did I care about the delays? Well, yeah, but in a way, working on the car was a lot of therapy from daily stress and I needed that badly, at the time. I'm a good mechanic and builder and I had a lot of fun learning about these little cars and putting my own character into mine. I also gathered a lot of nifty tools!!

As Jeff wrote: "I had my Mom sew a little detail into the door panels on my car (it cost a hug) and she made my shift boot and e-brake boot for the same hug."

Well, my mom is 90, now, and hasn't sewn in years, but my wife is a semi-professional quilter. She would NEVER use her quilting or embroidery machines to do upholstery, but she found me a used, commercial sewing machine and showed me how to sew with it, and I'm almost getting to the point where things I sew don't suck. By the time I get to the upholstery in my current kit, it should look really good!!

So do what you like. Ask questions on here and the other Speedster forums. I'm sure you'll get a lot of help - I sure did! Enjoy your build and, as Stan mentioned, if you get into something that you're not comfortable with, ask around at car shows and either find out how to do it or find someone to do it who is comfortable with it.

Either way, have as much fun as you can!

Gordon,

I don't know how your gonna fit it all in the Speedster ....but I bet it is sure gonna be quiet with all that insulation...and warm too!

Alan,

I wish I could be at Carlisle with the Speedster....unfortunately that car was sold weeks after I finished it 5 or 6 years ago.

Now maybe I will be there with m Autodynamics Deserter or my cherry little FiberFab Aztec 7 project if I ever get the Avenger done!

I mostly agree with Gordon and Jeff, plus Stan. How is that, you ask?
I don't do bodywork or paint. But I can engineer, build, and wire almost whatever I set my mind to. I do believe most of your skill set is learned before you are 30, but not all. I never looked at multiple carbs until I was 38, and they weren't on a running car until I was 41! You can always learn, I learned to weld at 40, and align a car too. So while a basic skill set is a nice bonus, if you have the intelligence and desire, you really can do whatever you want.

I day dreamed in school of someday building a cool car...
Some 38 builds later, I still get a different idea in my head and make it a reality, engineer it, build motors, wrench, previously did my own body work & some paint work. Still do all my electrical and some upholstery too.
I've said: " I'm done, my last one, a few times to date " ...........but I still have one more idea yet to materialize :)
Six more years until I can retire, we'll buy a new single wide in a warm and sunny state that will have just a small shed.
While on my screened in porch and guzzling down a cold Smirnoff, I'll show the kid that mows my little patch of lawn my scrap book of builds... "Yeah kid, when I was your age I built cars, lots of them ...."

Yeah, when pigs fly. ;-)

If you don't try it ...you won't learn a thing .And mistakes can always be fixed. What always pissed me off were guys that asked me do you know what you are doin? I always would respond with I ain't got a *^#@+> clue. Though I think my el crapo Speedster turned out OK . As for the new builder this site can help you if you hit a brick wall during your build. No question is a dumb question . It's all about learning! I do applause those who took the challenge to build . It is a rewarding accomplishment that should never be discouraged. Even by the wife. What makes the home built car different from the turnkeys is they are custom. Little changes and improvements customize it to your personality. You may acquire additional tools down the road .. so what! Hell I rebuilt my first car with a $100 craftsman tool set.
If you need help just ask.
Time to feed the flying pigs!
Joe

The sound of Joe's Raby motor is just incredible. And Joe's car is fast as S_ _ T! Joe's car is totally custome and has a supper cool paint job. If you have the skillz, the sky's the limit. Carlisle 2010???? Merry Christmas.

Clarification: The "flying pigs" remark was directed at Alan's assertion that he would EVER stop tinkering with cars.

Now back to our regularly scheduled thread.

"...regularly scheduled thread" ...looked up the phrase, doesn't exist.

Anyone who has built several cars will always tell you, "Every one is different".

You also learn new stuff with every build. However, I find that I tend to retain less as time goes on.

I learned Hebrew when I was in my late 40's. Got pretty good at it, too (it was a sub-language in a lot of our Engineering meetings). I would be surprised if I remember 20% of it now, just 15 years later.

Just goes to show if you don't use your skills they tend to flutter away.

Happy Holidays, everyone!

Gordon
The Speedstah Guy from Beaufort, being held against his will in the Frozen North!

D S, it can be done. If I can do it, so can you.
My best advice is to find a VW-savvy local mechanic you can trust, preferably one without bad habits.

I could be wrong here, and I really hope I am

... but the common theme among guys like Joe, Mango, and Gordon who have successfully completed a nice first-time build (from the ground up) is that they had a pretty broad skill set to draw on before they started. Gordon had built several buggies in his youth, Joe and Mango are certified welders with obvious fabrication skills.

What touches a nerve with me is the idea that these skills are easily acquired. Welding, painting, and mechanical work require quite a few expensive tools, and a lot of experience to do acceptably well. Just because welding and painting have come to be low-wage jobs does not mean they are low skill. They're not something you pick up from a book, or a website- and do just like a pro right away.

Everybody crawls before they walk. A full-on ground up speedster build is not crawling- it's a major undertaking. Farming out some of it is just smart.

I wish you well, and as I said- I really hope I'm wrong. Merry Christmas, and good luck in your endeavors.

If there is a will there is a way.

I never really tinkered with cars much. When I was younger my hobby was the beach and surfing. I didn't care much for oil and grease.

I planned on becoming an architect but I settled for being a draftsman. I didn't care for school much.

Soup to nuts. Pretty much did everything on the project although I had a little help from a couple of friends. One thing I didn't do was the welding of the pan. I paid a certified welder for that one.

This project was a lot of firsts for me. Did I ever work on a VW. Nope. Did I ever rewire a car. Nope. Did I ever body work and paint a car. Nope.

My point is you can do anything you put your mind to. For me I love to create stuff. Dare to be different. And the sense of accomplishment is my high.

Just take your time and think of the finished product during the build.

DS, just go ahead and start your build. If you've got enough determination, you'll be driving your Speedster one day - skills or no skills. Sure, somethings are difficult to do in a home garage or without the skills or equipment (though there are plenty of chaps on these pages who can do all those things), but you can always pay somebody to do those bits. Your finished Speedster may not be of as high a standard as some turnkeys (though some of those are clunkers also!) or as some of the perfectionists here, but you'll enjoy it. As others have said on this post, DON'T underestimate the time or cost to build - it always takes a lot longer and costs more. I hope your wife has a sense of humour - these things simply are not as reliable as a modern car - one day, she will spend time on the side of the road!

I'm sure that everybody on these pages shall help you.

;)

I think that it has been cold in Colorado lately...........