Steering "Clunking" and Skipping

You likely broke the steering rag joint coupler.  If you have a red urethane one, do not replace with another.  Get a factory style couple.  Your life depends on it!

Sounds like the pitman arm is loose on the steering box shaft.  Getting that properly tight requires a serious pry bar and is not easy to get to.  I'd check that first.  Event if it seems tight, it may not be, but with that much movement, I'll bet you can tell.

I bet there are quite a number of familiar names on this forum who can probably point directly to one of maybe three failures that could have caused this.

But with only 850 miles, I would simply forward your post and picture to the speedster's builder and politely ask for it to be resolved.  I have no doubt they would eagerly send a flatbed and take the speedster to a repair facility they will have lined-up for the service.  Probably, they would prefer for you to do this rather than repair it yourself, considering their exposure if they knowingly entrusted this type of apparent defect in manufacturing or materials to the hands of an amateur for correction.

Good point.  The car looks like a Vintage, and I know Greg is known for his after-sale support.

Here's the video I referenced above: 2023 VMC Speedster Replica Steering

I checked and all the steering and suspension components are good to go; no surprise, as I do a safety check before each drive the way pilots do before they fly.

Luckily I found a mechanic 1/2-hour away that can take the car in 2 weeks. Until then, I'll do what I can to get the car there without killing myself.

I got under the car and saw that my steering box was leaking.

@LI-Rick @Lane Anderson @RS-60 mark

Thanks for the info. I will say this: I still have yet to understand what a Pitman arm is. I guess I must learn what it is now.

The one thing I'm for sure of is the steering box leak is a NO GO! So that will be a quick, easy win.

I was thinking of replacing the steering box regardless. I was thinking of splurging on this: Airkewld OEM-PRObuilt Steering Box

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Pitman arm is located at the bottom of the steering box, attached to a splined shaft. In the pic I uploaded, it appears that all the torque markings are still aligned.

It is one of a few things.

1. Steering box adjustment(and please verify box clamp bolts to beam)

2. Pitman arm clamping bolt(This needs to be tighter than 43 lb.-ft. factory torque, more like 60-70, but that's me)

3. Rag joint failure(DO NOT USE URETHANE)

4. Steering column bearing or crush cage failure.

5. Check ball joints, trailing arm bushings, and tie rod ends.

It is very important to understand exactly what the problem is. If someone can turn the wheel while you feel/observe the steering components, you'll for sure figure it out.

Most likely the steering box needs an adjustment/rebuild.

A minor lubricant weep is NOT a problem, a lot of them leak a little. Today they seem to be filled with grease rather than gear oil(and both lubricant types can leak). No matter, as long as SOME form of lube is in there.

I adjusted two of them for other racers at the track last weekend. They were both happy and raced well.

@DannyP

Thanks, Danny. Maybe I'm not checking correctly. Everything is tight and torqued. I must have missed something. I'll get the car on jack stands and have someone turn the wheel while I see what's actually happening. The weirdest thing about this whole situation is that it's slowly crept up on me. No hard driving and no potholes etc. That's why I thought it was the steering box leak. With so few miles, I figure something just must have failed.

I'll go check it out now.

One last thing: are there tell-tale signs any of those issues exist? Frankly, I can only pull, smack, jiggle and jostle so much before concluding things are fine. As of now, everything is visually tip-top. If I continue to be stumped, I'll take a video of it all and see if anyone can see something I'm missing.

Thanks again, all.

Take driver's side wheel off. The rag joint (rubber or the failure prone red poly one) is easy to see.  The steering wheel crush zone should also be visible.  As probably loose connectors either side of the rag joint.

Good to go! I have the black rubber - no red poly here. I have a sinking feeling my steering box failed. It always seems to be the most expensive part that’s the hardest to replace fails first. womp womp.

If that’s the case, I’ll have to put some thought into whether I want to (or even can) replace a steering box on the ground. Everything I’ve read and watched indicates that replacing a VW steering box is a 4- to 6-hour job. And I’m assuming that’s with the little trap door in the trunk that I haven’t cut yet.

One other thing to check that has been sort-of mentioned.  

Someone mentioned checking the steering coupler just above the steering box.  You should check that the donut is not cracked or split or if it is a Urethane version (bright red) which should not be used (those are brittle).

BUT!  Given the symptoms you’ve described, you should also check the coupler’s top and bottom shaft connections because I suspect that one of them is loose.  

The steering box has a shaft that fits into the bottom of the coupler.  Both the box shaft and coupler ends are splined with very fine teeth and have clamping bolts that, when loose, can allow the two parts to slip, which lets the steering wheel get off center up to about 20° either side of center.  The shaft has a small cut-out in it that the clamping bolt fits across to limit shaft movement in and out if loose.  The bolt will also limit the shaft rotational travel to about 20° either side of center but no more.  It’s sort-of a safety thing.

All of this applies to the top of the coupler, too - It is the same slip joint, clamp and bolt, so you need to check both ends.

To check (you may want to remove the front wheel, but you can check this from below with the wheel on, too):

Using a Sharpie, draw a line lengthwise along the steering box input shaft and keep the line going up the coupler clamp for an inch or so.  Do the same line on the other (steering wheel shaft ) side of the coupler.  These reference lines will tell you if something is rotating that shouldn’t be in the next step.

Once the line is drawn, sit in the seat and turn the wheel until it clunks and stops.  Go back to the coupler to see which, if either, clamp has moved by checking to see if your lines no longer match and line up.  If neither clamp moves either way, the coupler is OK and time to look elsewhere.  If one moves, re-center the steering wheel and then re-tighten the coupler clamp bolts to 22 ft. Lbs.  That should fix it, if this is the problem.

Gordon, did you watch the video I posted?

Yeah, and that's why I posted the description of the problem (a loose clamp being limited in rotation by the clamping bolt) and details on how to fix it (if that is, in fact, the problem).  The video just added to my belief that a steering shaft clamp is loose.

The chances of your steering box failing catastrophically and creating all of the issues you describe are almost zero. Slop in the wheel and imprecise steering, yes -- a sudden movement of the wheel off center, no. The "clunking" could be a steering box horribly out of adjustment, but the "skipping" does not sound at all like a steering box unless it's completely worn out, and I really doubt this is the case. I'd almost guarantee Greg put a new box in when he built the car last year.

If the rag-joint is good, and the crush-cage is good, then something is loose on a spline.

@DannyP posted:

It is very important to understand exactly what the problem is. If someone can turn the wheel while you feel/observe the steering components, you'll for sure figure it out.

I'd bet you are turning the wheel until you get to a steering stop, then attempting to continue to turn which is when the wheel "skips". This makes me think gordon is probably right. I'd follow Gordon's instructions, except for the "22 ft/lbs" part. I use a torque wrench for almost nothing, and all of the things I do use them for are internal engine parts. I'd tighten those particular bolts until they were "normal 3/8" ratchet tight", which is a lot more than 22 ft/lbs. You'd like the thing that slipped to not slip again.

The steering and front ends of these things are kind of a Rube Goldberg arrangement with a lot of bolts and joints. You'll find the problem if you follow Gordon's instructions.

Thanks again, Gordon. I asked because I couldn’t find the link myself and was wondering if I screwed it up.

Thanks, Stan. I’ll get my neighbor to assist with the steering wheel while I visually investigate with a white sharpie handy. Hopefully it’s just a few subtle adjustments.

I bought a replica with 150 miles.  Built by VMC. Brazilian steering box came with car. Total trash, I could move the wheel almost 90 deg before it would engage, completely frightening. Bought an Airkweld, installed in 3 hours. Huge improvement. Don’t try to adjust the one you have, if you over tighten you will turn and the steering wheel and it won’t return to center. Just for fun, i disassembled the old steering box, and found that I had a lot of play in it.

@JGargo posted:

I bought a replica with 150 miles.  Built by VMC. Brazilian steering box came with car. Total trash, I could move the wheel almost 90 deg before it would engage, completely frightening. Bought an Airkweld, installed in 3 hours. Huge improvement. Don’t try to adjust the one you have, if you over tighten you will turn and the steering wheel and it won’t return to center. Just for fun, i disassembled the old steering box, and found that I had a lot of play in it.

The mistake that EVERYONE makes is adjusting the set screw on top FIRST. Which will absolutely destroy the box when the proper procedure isn't followed.

Nobody has the tools to adjust the big 41mm nut and 22mm 12-point hex key, so they simply skip it(This is where most of the play is usually from. A tiny amount of play here translates into a lot at the wheel) .

The procedure in the VW manual isn't hard, but it has a few steps which must be followed.

If you adjust the top screw willy-nilly you will not achieve success. The boxes are designed to have the least play at center only. There will be more play the further you get from center. They are designed this way.

I have found both brand new and rebuilt boxes to be out of adjustment. It's too bad, as they get replaced when there is nothing physically wrong with them.

Steering boxes are really pretty simple inside. But, like transmissions and engines and carburetors they are a mystery to most.

TRUTH! I used the procedure in one of Gordon’s posts the first time I did it and it worked well. The only problem was that the steering became loose again in 500 miles. That’s what led me here. Frankly, when I readjusted the steering, I used the same procedure, but nothing worked. No matter how far out or in I adjusted the screw, the steering didn’t change. The odd thing was that I never needed more torque to adjust the steering box. i didn’t know if that was god or bad; all I knew was that nothing was happening. Hence, I simply put it back where it was and  the journey I’m on presently.

The box could be worn out. It does happen.

As long as there is nothing else wrong in the entire steering and front suspension system.

@JoelP posted:

TRUTH! I used the procedure in one of Gordon’s posts the first time I did it and it worked well. The only problem was that the steering became loose again in 500 miles. That’s what led me here. Frankly, when I readjusted the steering, I used the same procedure, but nothing worked. No matter how far out or in I adjusted the screw, the steering didn’t change. The odd thing was that I never needed more torque to adjust the steering box. i didn’t know if that was god or bad; all I knew was that nothing was happening. Hence, I simply put it back where it was and  the journey I’m on presently.

Hmmm, I guess I'll withdraw my suggestion on the 4th post of this thread.  Once you, without the knowledge base to even identify a pitman arm, started fooling around with the steering mechanicals with tools, you effectively voided any warranty (expressed or implied, or even of courtesy).

Basically, it's your time, your dime from here on out.  And that's OK, that's how we all learned to work on our cars.  For safety's sake (both yours and the mommy with baby stroller you might run over), this is something you have to get right.  Yet after three days you have not learned where the loud "clunk" is coming from or what is slipping.

By now this should be fairly obvious, there are only a handful of connections between the steering wheel and the steering knuckle.  You should be able to put your hand on the source, but you are still guessing and making blind adjustments not knowing if it "was good or bad".

I'm sorry for sounding so blunt, and I don't want to discourage your determination to "figure it out".  But perhaps at this point I could gently suggest that you will be time and money ahead to put down the tools and consider getting it on a flat-bed tow to the mechanic you have found.  Whatever is wrong is easy to fix and you'll be driving it back home two weeks from now.

@DannyP posted:

The box could be worn out. It does happen.

As long as there is nothing else wrong in the entire steering and front suspension system.

In 850 miles?

Unrelated:  I'm impressed with builder's quality control shown by witness marks on all the steering connections (as seen in the pictures).

No offense taken. I appreciate the perspective. I’ve only tried to figure out the clunk for 1/2 hour on Sunday. I’m super busy and would rather consult the big brains and deep experience on the SOC before diving into things fully on the floor of a commercial garage. It takes quite a bit of planning and effort to get my tools down to the garage in the middle of the night, so I can work undisturbed. I made an appointment to have the alignment checked in a couple of weeks with a trusted mechanic. Worst case, if it’s not fixed, I’ll have a flatbed come pick the car up.

Skilled mechanics familiar with air-cooled engines are unicorns in the mid-Atlantic. Patience is the name of the game. I’m going to simply check the fasteners and ensure everything is as good as I can get it. If things aren’t kosher at that point . . . BRING ON THE FLATBED!

@JoelP posted:

No offense taken.

Whew!  I sat on the "Post Reply" button for 15 minutes concerned my opinion might be taken not the way intended.  Thanks for the relief.

It looked like (from the pictures) that you are "garaged" in a condo car park.  I thought to myself when I saw the pictures, "I wonder how he gets away with even popping the hood with typical condo car park rules".   Sneaking down at midnight might explain it. 

As far as finding a skilled air-cooled mechanic:  You have the right attitude to become your own "unicorn".  For many, doing their own wrenching is the best part of it, for others it is a matter of no-other-choice.  In either case, these cars are pretty basic, and experienced coaching is only a keyboard away.

Be sure to post a copy of your condo association's letter after you do your first oil change in a couple-hundred miles.

Joel - Noticed you are in Wash DC!  (Retired from DOD - lived in Springfield VA - years ago)

There are some good wrenchers in area that might be able to take a look at your issue.  @schu Dale S is in Garrisonville, VA; Cory D and Ed E in nearby Maryland; Paul H also MD.  All have built cars from scratch.  All the aircooled mechanics I knew are gone.

Actually Cory is in Gettysburg, PA now.

Ok. checked all steering and suspension parts, and all are good and tight.

here’s the cause of the “clunk” noise. https://youtu.be/dwi-lbB2r-M?si=4yDzVQBAUQBJrE21.  

Ugh  

Yikes!  I dunno if that's the steering box adjustment being waaaaaaaaaaaaay out (could it even do that?) or the box is just shot.  Most likely the latter, I'm afraid.

Definitely not box adjustment. I redid the adjustment and steering is nice and tight - one-inch of play. All I know is that I’m not willing to spend more time diagnosing a problem that will end in the same measure being taken - replace the steering box.

Corey Drake was super helpful. Sadly, it looks like my driving season is likely over, as I don’t realistically expect to get a mechanic to get this done before October.

I don’t see how the roller could possibly move that much without its adjustment screw on the top of the box being broken.  The should be no visible movement in and out.

@JoelP posted:

. . . . especially considering I have 850 miles on the car and haven't been involved in any collisions.

"850 miles"

Perhaps I can suggest re-reading the 4th post on this thread (mine).

As originally recommended, send the manufacturer the pictures you have previously posted and now the video as well.

Not to scold you or dampen your ambition to figure-it-out, but had you given the manufacturer a chance to get involved nearly a month ago you might be driving by now.

We all know who the manufacturer is, and I'll imagine he wants this particular problem resolved even more urgently than you do.  For good reason, he'd want the life of this thread to disappear immediately.  Give them a chance!!

@RS-60 mark VMC has done right by me, but it seems odd that you would make assumptions about Joel’s situation.  Simply asking if he talked to Greg would suffice.  I don’t think this thread is the place to debate VMC.  Let’s support each other, and get to the bottom of the steering issue.

For reference, the box in my 2023 VMC was made of oatmeal.  It improved the car a shocking amount to replace it with a new TRW.  I hear TRW can be hit or miss but I got a great one.  

I think new VMC customers should budget 10K to sort things out, and make proper upgrades.  That’s not even a knock on VMC.  These are hand built cars, and some stuff will be lower quality than you might want, or just plain missing (sway bars).  Just expect to have to spend, and then you’ll get a well sorted car.  I’ve spent $15K at least, but now it’s a great car.

I’m a lucky man. I have a 2017 VMC Spyder with 6500 miles. All miles have been driven with bad intent.  I’ve replaced all fluids and the tires. New LEDs. Replaced the battery once. Upgraded front lights. Oh I bought some Coco mats. Other than that, nothing. I have to confess that I do have a bullet proof Outfront Subaru engine. Oh, Greg programmed my tachometer for a V6 engine so I’ve always thought I was driving an F1 car. Greg sent me the plug-in for the tachometer so I can reset it for a 4 banger. For free.
I would suggest calling Greg if you have not. He’s a stand up guy.

@Teammccalla  I'm not sure what you are talking about in your comment directed to me.  When you said "Simply asking if he talked to Greg would suffice", it kind of seems like a pointless question.  It appears obvious from the beginning of this thread that he has not talked to Greg.

And, since it appeared from the beginning of this thread that Joel had not contacted the manufacturer, I clearly recommended that he do so, in the 4th post on this thread nearly a month ago when I said:   "But with only 850 miles, I would simply forward your post and picture to the speedster's builder and politely ask for it to be resolved."

Again, today, weeks after my 4th post on this thread I reiterated to Joel:  "As originally recommended, send the manufacturer the pictures you have previously posted and now the video as well."

I guess I don't understand why you would think asking Joel a pointless question is more sufficient than offering Joel a recommendation with some direction towards a conclusive result.

You continue in your response to me by saying:  "I don’t think this thread is the place to debate VMC."  Who is debating VMC?  Besides you, who else mentioned VMC with a negative comment?

And you go on to say:  "Let’s support each other, and get to the bottom of the steering issue."  I think at this point the 'bottom of the steering issue' is pretty obvious.  And, as I did several weeks ago in that 4th post, I think Joel will find his most effective support under these circumstances will be from the manufacturer.  They would probably have loved to kill this thread weeks ago  --  if they had the chance.  Give them the chance!

@JoelP

Call me at the shop tomorrow to discuss your steering box issue. (714)894-1550

Greg

Ok. Called Greg and he sent me a replacement steering box. THANKS @VSpyder! I decided to install it myself this morning. It was a bear, but after a lot of blood, sweat and swearing, it's DONE! BTW, the hardest thing was getting the Pitman arm off and on: that pinchbolt required an 18-inch breaker bar to get off. Still, all is good.

Greg mentioned that I'd have to readjust the steering wheel. So I got a 7/8 socket (as Greg instructed), and now I'm headed to tackle that little adjustment tomorrow.

I'll update as I progress.

Good morning All! Test drive went very well. Steering is 💯 back to normal, I think. I haven’t driven in a while, so I must get used to how these cars feel on the road. I’m probably a bit overly cautious, but a post-steering box replacement test drive, I think, warrants it. Still, the steering is much better. Also, alignment is still spot on.

Of course, I still must adjust the steering wheel, because it’s probably 20 degrees off. Does anyone know the best way to remove the horn button without totally scraping up the steering hub or ruining the outer ring? I was thinking of using a non-marring emblem removal tool and a small gasket removal pick. Because this isn’t the most hair-on-fire task, I figured I’d inquire here before executing.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.