Steering "Clunking" and Skipping

@JGargo posted:

I bought a replica with 150 miles.  Built by VMC. Brazilian steering box came with car. Total trash, I could move the wheel almost 90 deg before it would engage, completely frightening. Bought an Airkweld, installed in 3 hours. Huge improvement. Don’t try to adjust the one you have, if you over tighten you will turn and the steering wheel and it won’t return to center. Just for fun, i disassembled the old steering box, and found that I had a lot of play in it.

The mistake that EVERYONE makes is adjusting the set screw on top FIRST. Which will absolutely destroy the box when the proper procedure isn't followed.

Nobody has the tools to adjust the big 41mm nut and 22mm 12-point hex key, so they simply skip it(This is where most of the play is usually from. A tiny amount of play here translates into a lot at the wheel) .

The procedure in the VW manual isn't hard, but it has a few steps which must be followed.

If you adjust the top screw willy-nilly you will not achieve success. The boxes are designed to have the least play at center only. There will be more play the further you get from center. They are designed this way.

I have found both brand new and rebuilt boxes to be out of adjustment. It's too bad, as they get replaced when there is nothing physically wrong with them.

Steering boxes are really pretty simple inside. But, like transmissions and engines and carburetors they are a mystery to most.

TRUTH! I used the procedure in one of Gordon’s posts the first time I did it and it worked well. The only problem was that the steering became loose again in 500 miles. That’s what led me here. Frankly, when I readjusted the steering, I used the same procedure, but nothing worked. No matter how far out or in I adjusted the screw, the steering didn’t change. The odd thing was that I never needed more torque to adjust the steering box. i didn’t know if that was god or bad; all I knew was that nothing was happening. Hence, I simply put it back where it was and  the journey I’m on presently.

The box could be worn out. It does happen.

As long as there is nothing else wrong in the entire steering and front suspension system.

@JoelP posted:

TRUTH! I used the procedure in one of Gordon’s posts the first time I did it and it worked well. The only problem was that the steering became loose again in 500 miles. That’s what led me here. Frankly, when I readjusted the steering, I used the same procedure, but nothing worked. No matter how far out or in I adjusted the screw, the steering didn’t change. The odd thing was that I never needed more torque to adjust the steering box. i didn’t know if that was god or bad; all I knew was that nothing was happening. Hence, I simply put it back where it was and  the journey I’m on presently.

Hmmm, I guess I'll withdraw my suggestion on the 4th post of this thread.  Once you, without the knowledge base to even identify a pitman arm, started fooling around with the steering mechanicals with tools, you effectively voided any warranty (expressed or implied, or even of courtesy).

Basically, it's your time, your dime from here on out.  And that's OK, that's how we all learned to work on our cars.  For safety's sake (both yours and the mommy with baby stroller you might run over), this is something you have to get right.  Yet after three days you have not learned where the loud "clunk" is coming from or what is slipping.

By now this should be fairly obvious, there are only a handful of connections between the steering wheel and the steering knuckle.  You should be able to put your hand on the source, but you are still guessing and making blind adjustments not knowing if it "was good or bad".

I'm sorry for sounding so blunt, and I don't want to discourage your determination to "figure it out".  But perhaps at this point I could gently suggest that you will be time and money ahead to put down the tools and consider getting it on a flat-bed tow to the mechanic you have found.  Whatever is wrong is easy to fix and you'll be driving it back home two weeks from now.

@DannyP posted:

The box could be worn out. It does happen.

As long as there is nothing else wrong in the entire steering and front suspension system.

In 850 miles?

Unrelated:  I'm impressed with builder's quality control shown by witness marks on all the steering connections (as seen in the pictures).

No offense taken. I appreciate the perspective. I’ve only tried to figure out the clunk for 1/2 hour on Sunday. I’m super busy and would rather consult the big brains and deep experience on the SOC before diving into things fully on the floor of a commercial garage. It takes quite a bit of planning and effort to get my tools down to the garage in the middle of the night, so I can work undisturbed. I made an appointment to have the alignment checked in a couple of weeks with a trusted mechanic. Worst case, if it’s not fixed, I’ll have a flatbed come pick the car up.

Skilled mechanics familiar with air-cooled engines are unicorns in the mid-Atlantic. Patience is the name of the game. I’m going to simply check the fasteners and ensure everything is as good as I can get it. If things aren’t kosher at that point . . . BRING ON THE FLATBED!

@JoelP posted:

No offense taken.

Whew!  I sat on the "Post Reply" button for 15 minutes concerned my opinion might be taken not the way intended.  Thanks for the relief.

It looked like (from the pictures) that you are "garaged" in a condo car park.  I thought to myself when I saw the pictures, "I wonder how he gets away with even popping the hood with typical condo car park rules".   Sneaking down at midnight might explain it. 

As far as finding a skilled air-cooled mechanic:  You have the right attitude to become your own "unicorn".  For many, doing their own wrenching is the best part of it, for others it is a matter of no-other-choice.  In either case, these cars are pretty basic, and experienced coaching is only a keyboard away.

Be sure to post a copy of your condo association's letter after you do your first oil change in a couple-hundred miles.

Joel - Noticed you are in Wash DC!  (Retired from DOD - lived in Springfield VA - years ago)

There are some good wrenchers in area that might be able to take a look at your issue.  @schu Dale S is in Garrisonville, VA; Cory D and Ed E in nearby Maryland; Paul H also MD.  All have built cars from scratch.  All the aircooled mechanics I knew are gone.

Actually Cory is in Gettysburg, PA now.

Ok. checked all steering and suspension parts, and all are good and tight.

here’s the cause of the “clunk” noise. https://youtu.be/dwi-lbB2r-M?si=4yDzVQBAUQBJrE21.  

Ugh  

Yikes!  I dunno if that's the steering box adjustment being waaaaaaaaaaaaay out (could it even do that?) or the box is just shot.  Most likely the latter, I'm afraid.

Definitely not box adjustment. I redid the adjustment and steering is nice and tight - one-inch of play. All I know is that I’m not willing to spend more time diagnosing a problem that will end in the same measure being taken - replace the steering box.

Corey Drake was super helpful. Sadly, it looks like my driving season is likely over, as I don’t realistically expect to get a mechanic to get this done before October.

I don’t see how the roller could possibly move that much without its adjustment screw on the top of the box being broken.  The should be no visible movement in and out.

@JoelP posted:

. . . . especially considering I have 850 miles on the car and haven't been involved in any collisions.

"850 miles"

Perhaps I can suggest re-reading the 4th post on this thread (mine).

As originally recommended, send the manufacturer the pictures you have previously posted and now the video as well.

Not to scold you or dampen your ambition to figure-it-out, but had you given the manufacturer a chance to get involved nearly a month ago you might be driving by now.

We all know who the manufacturer is, and I'll imagine he wants this particular problem resolved even more urgently than you do.  For good reason, he'd want the life of this thread to disappear immediately.  Give them a chance!!

@RS-60 mark VMC has done right by me, but it seems odd that you would make assumptions about Joel’s situation.  Simply asking if he talked to Greg would suffice.  I don’t think this thread is the place to debate VMC.  Let’s support each other, and get to the bottom of the steering issue.

For reference, the box in my 2023 VMC was made of oatmeal.  It improved the car a shocking amount to replace it with a new TRW.  I hear TRW can be hit or miss but I got a great one.  

I think new VMC customers should budget 10K to sort things out, and make proper upgrades.  That’s not even a knock on VMC.  These are hand built cars, and some stuff will be lower quality than you might want, or just plain missing (sway bars).  Just expect to have to spend, and then you’ll get a well sorted car.  I’ve spent $15K at least, but now it’s a great car.

I’m a lucky man. I have a 2017 VMC Spyder with 6500 miles. All miles have been driven with bad intent.  I’ve replaced all fluids and the tires. New LEDs. Replaced the battery once. Upgraded front lights. Oh I bought some Coco mats. Other than that, nothing. I have to confess that I do have a bullet proof Outfront Subaru engine. Oh, Greg programmed my tachometer for a V6 engine so I’ve always thought I was driving an F1 car. Greg sent me the plug-in for the tachometer so I can reset it for a 4 banger. For free.
I would suggest calling Greg if you have not. He’s a stand up guy.

@Teammccalla  I'm not sure what you are talking about in your comment directed to me.  When you said "Simply asking if he talked to Greg would suffice", it kind of seems like a pointless question.  It appears obvious from the beginning of this thread that he has not talked to Greg.

And, since it appeared from the beginning of this thread that Joel had not contacted the manufacturer, I clearly recommended that he do so, in the 4th post on this thread nearly a month ago when I said:   "But with only 850 miles, I would simply forward your post and picture to the speedster's builder and politely ask for it to be resolved."

Again, today, weeks after my 4th post on this thread I reiterated to Joel:  "As originally recommended, send the manufacturer the pictures you have previously posted and now the video as well."

I guess I don't understand why you would think asking Joel a pointless question is more sufficient than offering Joel a recommendation with some direction towards a conclusive result.

You continue in your response to me by saying:  "I don’t think this thread is the place to debate VMC."  Who is debating VMC?  Besides you, who else mentioned VMC with a negative comment?

And you go on to say:  "Let’s support each other, and get to the bottom of the steering issue."  I think at this point the 'bottom of the steering issue' is pretty obvious.  And, as I did several weeks ago in that 4th post, I think Joel will find his most effective support under these circumstances will be from the manufacturer.  They would probably have loved to kill this thread weeks ago  --  if they had the chance.  Give them the chance!

@JoelP

Call me at the shop tomorrow to discuss your steering box issue. (714)894-1550

Greg

Ok. Called Greg and he sent me a replacement steering box. THANKS @VSpyder! I decided to install it myself this morning. It was a bear, but after a lot of blood, sweat and swearing, it's DONE! BTW, the hardest thing was getting the Pitman arm off and on: that pinchbolt required an 18-inch breaker bar to get off. Still, all is good.

Greg mentioned that I'd have to readjust the steering wheel. So I got a 7/8 socket (as Greg instructed), and now I'm headed to tackle that little adjustment tomorrow.

I'll update as I progress.

Good morning All! Test drive went very well. Steering is 💯 back to normal, I think. I haven’t driven in a while, so I must get used to how these cars feel on the road. I’m probably a bit overly cautious, but a post-steering box replacement test drive, I think, warrants it. Still, the steering is much better. Also, alignment is still spot on.

Of course, I still must adjust the steering wheel, because it’s probably 20 degrees off. Does anyone know the best way to remove the horn button without totally scraping up the steering hub or ruining the outer ring? I was thinking of using a non-marring emblem removal tool and a small gasket removal pick. Because this isn’t the most hair-on-fire task, I figured I’d inquire here before executing.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.