Haveing driven a VS for the last year or so one of my only complaints would be handling. Having driven 356's a 912 and 914's in the past it dosen't feel the same as "real" porsches. Is there a simple solution? Like adding weight to the front end? rack and pinion steering conversion? It dosen't feel as stable/safe as it did when I was driving them like I sold them 40 years ago. Maybe I'm more cautious in my old age.
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I'd first add a front and rear anti-sway bars (or camber compensator if rear is swing axle like most VS Speedsters). For some reason VS doesn't seem to use a front anti-sway bar at all (not even the skinny stock VW one). Plus they typically only use one lowering adjuster in the front beam. Then I'd get a 4 (2 pairs) of caster shims and 2 of the longer bolts for the front beam. Then set tire pressure to whatever is in the VS owners manual (22 psi?) and get an alignment. If you still have front drums swap them out to discs before the alignments. The VW steering box can be tighted up a bit (there is an adjustment nut on top) but they all seem to have play in them.
Not really handling but driver feel - is to replace the stock shifter with a CSP or Vintage shifter. There are others but they greatly reduce slop in shifting.
This is a good book for $10 or so - How To Modify Volkswagen Beetle Chassis, Suspension & Brakes by James Hale
@Bob Hampton Would you be able to explain more about in what way it doesn't feel the same? Greg listed several things that affect handling but if we knew more about what your issue is we could give better advice.
Will look in to the book for sure, thank you. It is hard to describe the difference and compareing to a 914 is sort of apples and Oranges. The 356's were 10 years or older when we had them ,but I was more comfortable/confident going fast into a curve with them. They were stock with skinny tires. Like I said Much younger then and hopefully wiser now. I did know that if/when they broke loose it was pretty much over.
My best guess is that you'd been swatted by context. Back when you drove used real Porsches, they were some of the best handling cars on the road. Today an eight-year-old Hyundai would run rings around the finest restored one. All those years of driving progressively better and better vehicles have altered the context in which you judge your VS.
So it's not old age and caution so much as being used to really tight normal cars that have benefitted from 70 years of chassis development.
Which is not to say there's nothing to be done.
To Greg's advice I'd add only that you should check all the ball joints and steering knuckles and make sure they're not worn or loose. Highly unlikely, but not unheard-of.
The caster shims will probably give you a lot more confidence.
All that said, please don't touch that top adjuster nut on your steering box. Doing that tends to ruin them. The adjuster you want is underneath and requires an allen type wrench that would choke an elephant. It's probably fine.
I too had a new 914 back in 1972. Over the years I upgraded to larger pistons and Weber carbs. I added front and rear sway bars, alloy wheels and Koni shocks with heavier rear springs. Even before that it handled like it was on rails. My guess is rack and pinion steering, wider stance, 4 wheel disc brakes, mid engine. I loved the Michelin XAS tires.
WOLFGANG posted:I'd first add a front and rear anti-sway bars (or camber compensator if rear is swing axle like most VS Speedsters). For some reason VS doesn't seem to use a front anti-sway bar at all (not even the skinny stock VW one). Plus they typically only use one lowering adjuster in the front beam. Then I'd get a 4 (2 pairs) of caster shims and 2 of the longer bolts for the front beam. Then set tire pressure to whatever is in the VS owners manual (22 psi?) and get an alignment. If you still have front drums swap them out to discs before the alignments. The VW steering box can be tighted up a bit (there is an adjustment nut on top) but they all seem to have play in them.
Not really handling but driver feel - is to replace the stock shifter with a CSP or Vintage shifter. There are others but they greatly reduce slop in shifting.
This is a good book for $10 or so - How To Modify Volkswagen Beetle Chassis, Suspension & Brakes by James Hale
Yes, the steering box has a slotted screw and a jam nut for adjustment, but that is NOT the first thing to mess with! The big nut on the front of the box needs to be adjusted. Most people skip this step because they don't have the proper tools. Don't do it!
You'll prematurely wear your steering box if you skip the large worm adjuster. You need a 41 mm open-end or box wrench, yes 41mm. You also need a 24mm hex key to turn the adjuster. I got the 41mm wrench on Amazon for $18. I welded a 15/16"(VERY close to 24mm) nut to a piece of flat steel to turn the adjuster, it doesn't need much torque to adjust....
I've seen people use an old VW oil pressure switch and cut off the plastic and the threaded end, then weld that to a piece of steel.
As Greg said, get some caster shims, but first check ball joints, tie rod ends, beam bushings, ans make sure the pitman arm is REALLY tight on the steering box. Also check steering shaft rag joint, these do fail. Tire pressure and alignment! And don't forget to check the steering stabilizer.
I'd also add to Ed's comment about the steering box: I have a brand new TRW box in my Spyder. After 1000 miles, it was sloppy, about 1.25" inches of play in the center. After I adjusted both the HUGE nut on front and the slotted screw on top it's better. I have almost zero play at the wheel and MUCH improved confidence in where the car is going!
Bob - you're right on the money. The replicas do not handle at all like a real one. They don't run like one or sound like one, and all the little bells and whistles don't have the same quality feel as a real one. But when you love the cars as much as I do and you're pretty much broke these replicas scratch the itch a little.
You can add caster to these cars to help with the car wandering on the freeway but other than a bag of cement in front there is not much you can do with the front end sliding on you. If you have a very narrow front end and are experiencing understeer you can widen the front trac as much as your fender wells will allow. This will give you more front end bite in a corner. You can also buy the softest sport rated tires you can find to get more grip. But lets get real here... I would never take one of these cars with their Chinese components to the limit in a corner. NEVER.
Mendeola Chassis upgrade!
I use 1/2" spacers on the front of my CMC to widen the track and fill the wheel well better (as well as give clearance for the disc calipers and allow for center allow for center billet wheel caps on 914 2L Fuchs over the wheel bearing caps).
The other feature I have noticed when driving the modern car for a week and jump into the VS for a weekend drive, all of the power this and power that come into play. It takes about 20 minutes to adjust to what the VS has to offer. They are still great to drive hard in the country.
Our cars should be compared to the 356's and not later Porsche's. They are not similar. Having said that; there is no reason that your car cannot handle as well as the 356's. The 356's running gear was much more like VW. There were many interchangeable parts.
Front Suspension:
(porsche356registery.com)
The front wheel track is identical on the 356A and the VW thru 1968, 51.4 inches.
The 356A was the first Porsche to have a front anti-sway bar from the factory. If your car doesn't have one; it should.
I have owned both an original 356C and CMC Speedster. My speedster was built with an original Porsche 356 steering wheel which was 17" in diameter. My Spyder has the common Nardi 15" wheel. The handling and ease of turning with the 17" wheel is considerably better.
There are 2 out of print, I'd think, books that offer much useful information on both cars. They are:
Porsche Technical Manual (Henry Elfrink), 1980
Fix your Volkswagen (Larry Johnson), 1972
Our cars should be compared to 1960/70s VW Beetles...Because that's what they are!
' 50's technology with 70's alternator :~)
Bill Prout posted:Our cars should be compared to 1960/70s VW Beetles...Because that's what they are!
more than the sum of their parts. Enjoy your beetle...
Yeah, looks like a Volkswagen to me...
Up until the end of 1955 and the very beginning of 1956, I agree that there are a lot of VW parts on original 356’ers. Many of them were even stamped “VW”, like the front trailing arms (torsion bars, too!) That doesn’t make them VW’s underneath, just users of some readily available parts. Their unibody construction certainly made them a cut above run-of-the-mill VW’s of the time.
OTOH, my 1969 VW-pan-based Speedster will absolutely out-handle any original 356 not set up for the track, and most of the track cars of that era (yes, I have driven a bunch of those). Properly set up with at least 6º negative front camber, 1/2” or larger front anti-sway bar, decent tires and a pre-loaded rear camber compensator, plus decent shocks all around on a swing-arm Speedster, it should handle at least as well as an original Speedster.
Thankyou for all your insights and suggestions . Have printed them all for future reference. Will be working on making my 69 ghia ready for the road this summer
FJ Camper has been racing Beetles and a Ghia for several years and wrote down some advice a while back.
I'm thinking Gordon was missing a decimal point. !/2 degree negative is good, 1.5 is even better, but 6 degrees is quite a bit.
edsnova posted:FJ Camper has been racing Beetles and a Ghia for several years and wrote down some advice a while back.
That's a good read!
No, Danny.... Gordon was right, but for the wrong setting.
I said 6º negative Camber - That's a BIG No-No. Should be more like 1º or so.
What I meant to say, in my Geriatric moment, was 6º negative CASTER.
Good thing you caught that, Danny. Not only would it have been a bear to drive around corners, but it woulda looked pretty weird, too!
Yeah, that much caster is great.
Positive caster though.
