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Steering limits

El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
I have noticed a big "Oh sh**!" w/ my front end. The steering arrangement is such that the wheels can turn so far that the inside of the tire rubs on the upper torsion bar knuckle. What's with that?? The thing is set up such that is can destroy itself -- well, at least the tire. This is predominate on the right side, although the left side looks like it could rub too. Right side tire has a nice deep groove worn in it, w/ cord showing. Not sure it was from a once-only event, or it's been happening over time. The steering box Pitman has an arm on it that could be used to form up a positive mechanical stop, but there is nothing there for it to stop against. The front end of the car here is a JPS special built space frame, not totally pan based. How is this steering angle limit done for regular VWs? Is this extra arm on the Pitman put there for this reason exactly?

2007 JPS MotorSports Speedster

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El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
I have noticed a big "Oh sh**!" w/ my front end. The steering arrangement is such that the wheels can turn so far that the inside of the tire rubs on the upper torsion bar knuckle. What's with that?? The thing is set up such that is can destroy itself -- well, at least the tire. This is predominate on the right side, although the left side looks like it could rub too. Right side tire has a nice deep groove worn in it, w/ cord showing. Not sure it was from a once-only event, or it's been happening over time. The steering box Pitman has an arm on it that could be used to form up a positive mechanical stop, but there is nothing there for it to stop against. The front end of the car here is a JPS special built space frame, not totally pan based. How is this steering angle limit done for regular VWs? Is this extra arm on the Pitman put there for this reason exactly?
Gordon NicholsGordon NicholsMassachusetts 1993 CMC Supporting Member
Dude.

JPS strikes again.

The steering box Pitman has an arm on it that could be used to form up a positive mechanical stop, but there is nothing there for it to stop against.

OK, either there was a bolt there, the head of which should run up against that extra little arm or nub on the pitman arm and the bolt fell out, or Steele never put one on in the first place. Get it up so you can get under there (or remove the left front wheel to see better) and see what's nearby when you crank it over to the non-existent stops. If there is a threaded boss there to accept a bolt such that the bolt head could form a stop, then find out what will fit and install it. Don't forget a locknut to keep it from falling out. If you don't even have bosses there, then we'll check it out in Carlisle and you can chew out "His-Steeleness" for an unsafe car. (Imagine if it cuts through you sidewall sometime????)

The front end of the car here is a JPS special built space frame, not totally pan based. How is this steering angle limit done for regular VWs? Is this extra arm on the Pitman put there for this reason exactly?

Yup, there is a little nub on both sides (left-right) of the pitman arm that bumps up against a bolt threaded into the torsion tubes (I think - can't fully remember) that limits movement to either side to prevent what is happening on YOUR car. We'll check it out at Carlisle. Just drive straight ahead and you'll be fine ;>)
El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
Right. John has allowed in his frame design for a threaded bolt to be installed, but it was not. The design is simply a nut welded to the frame in just the right place. I installed a bolt in said nut and set it such that the tire will not interfere w/ the body. Most of the rubber has been worn away, and Mr. Steele and I will be having a conversation about all of this -- like tomorrow, I hope. I need a new tire.
El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
For the record: Mr. Steele offered no apologies, suggested I try not to turn the wheel all the way over, and decided that the tire was well used (at not quite 10K mi so far -??!-) and so he'd pony up some cash. So he did. He said he'd stop by the show field and have a look, and we all know how that turned out. Meanwhile, the damaged tire lasted the week end, although I did purposely try not to push the corners too hard. So now I can take a minute or two and try to buy a new tire. And I will add a lock-nut to the system, so it all stays in place. Maybe use some Lock-tite too.
El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
Wolfy,

Do you mean between the wheel and the brake hub? Pushing the tire outboard just a bit? Might consider that for tracking gains, but would not, by itself, solve the interference problem if the steering box is not restrained by some mechanism. Would just mean a different part of ther tire would hit. And the restraint (a hard stop on the Pitman) is pretty easily done, and in fact done on my car. Still plenty of turning radius, and the tire stops just short of the control arm, so no more rubbing.
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