Steering Problem

So you're saying that steering turns significantly farther to the right than it does to the left?  And you're sure that nothing is fouling the steering arm or other parts when turning to the left?

I'm curious how many rotations of the steering wheel you get from lock to lock?  Also, with the steering at the straight-ahead position, can it be rotated more turns to the right than it can to the left?

It almost sounds to me like the front suspension steering bits may have been installed with the steering box already turned one rotation to the left!  In other words, the steering arm isn't centered when the wheels are straight ahead.

It might be a simple matter of adjusting the steering stops.  I had the same problem on my first test drive, but Carey fixed it before delivery.  It is really as easy as turning a couple of screws.

 I think Tpelle is going in the right direction with that thought.

When they did the conversion and new spindles were installed, the tie rods were disconnected and if they did not center the wheel before taking it apart or centering it before they put it back together they probably adjusted one of the tie rods to get it to connect back to the link.

If you jack the car up and disconnect the tie rod on the short side and then rotate the steering wheel lock to lock and re-center, I think you'll find that the end of the tie rod will not align with the hole in the link. i.e. the pitman arm on the box has to be mid travel (centered) and the tie rods connected while the wheels are facing straight a head. The alignment shop will dial the rest in for you.

Once you remove the attaching nut to the tie rod, just smack the side of the link with a hammer and the tie rod should pop up and off from the link.

My two cents.

I will verify from wheel being straight ahead how many turns to the left and how many turns to right , I will also check and verify the steering arm position when the wheels are straight ahead.

Where would the steering stops be located?

Thanks for the replies this is very helpful it will give me a  good starting point.

I will revert back ASAP.

Happy New Year, Manny!

The steering stops are (usually) bolts on or near the steering box mount such that their heads contact the steering Pitman arm (the big arm on the bottom of the steering box with the tie rods connected to it) when it reaches its limits left and right.  They are not necessarily symmetrical on both sides of the arm, but they should both be somewhere near the turning point of the pitman arm.

I agree with the above comments - looks like someone assembled the steering parts without centering the steering wheel first.

I have verified the steering turns,starting from wheels being straight ahead it turns one full turn to the left and two and half turns to the right, I did notice the pit arm is also slightly off , all this is making logic sense and the previous comments is bang on. Thank you so much, I will attempt the adjustment next week and hopefully get the speedster to the wheel alignment technician.

One further question I have a VW pan based speedster when setting up the wheel alignment, toe,caster and etc.will the standard VW specifications suffice, or do you SOC members have alternative specifications.

Thanks

The usual VW sedan alignment specifications are fine for your Speedster except for one difference - you will need about twice as much caster on the front beam as a "normal" VW sedan.  It is easy to adjust caster.  You will need shims (which look like half-rounds cut from a piece of tubing) to go between the bottom torsion tube and the tube mount on the pan to space the lower torsion tube away from the mount.  

The amount of caster needed is a topic of some discussion, but on my last alignment I had the tech add shims to get to 7° Of caster.  It is a tad heavy in steering at very low speeds but feels lighter and tracks very straight with no bump steer at high speeds (over 70mph).

Those shims look like this:

https://www2.cip1.com/SearchRe...7&Search1=Search

X2 what Gordon said about caster; VW purposely built beetles with the minimum caster needed for safe operation to about 65mph so parking lot steering would still be easy for the 100lb. women who were part of the target market. My lowered bug (with even less caster than the stock 2 1/2-3') was absolutely scary above 100mph. Unless you're intent on spending time at or above 90-100mph, anything above 5' is good. If regular blasts at those kinds of speeds are anticipated, then Gordon's recommendation of 7' is the goal. Al

Note- If your car is lowered with adjusters on the axle beam (and/or torsion leaves removed) then your car probably doesn't even have the stock caster spec, and 2 sets or shims may be needed. Lowering with offset spindles doesn't affect caster (or increase bump steer, for that matter).  Just something to think about when ordering. They're cheap enough (less than $10/set from CIP) that getting 2 sets would be the smart thing to do. And they'll be easy enough to unload if you only use one set...

I have one set of shims and I asked the alignment tech to add another (JPS Coupe) but I let him talk me out of it....

I could care less about heavy steering (being considerably bigger than 100lbs) but I want the car to track straight.

For the most part it does, but it does hunt the truck ruts common in most highways and that is disturbing.

I know, I should ask John, but for what ever reason we are not on the same page or time frame....so....I do not know what the degree of castor is.  

If you have a opinion that additional caster will help or that it is what it is and that I will just have to deal with it ???  I would appreciate it.

Yes, I know it is not a Porsche but....or rather butt...I love that word     

Get it on an alignment machine and find out what the caster is; if it's below 5' then shims will be beneficial. Don't let the alignment tech tell you what your car does or doesn't need; he's obviously not familiar with these cars. What you're looking for is predictable handling at higher highway speeds, and since your car's wheelbase is almost a foot shorter than a beetle's (the car the suspension was designed for), increasing the caster reading to 5-7' is essential to your safety.

"My lowered bug (with even less caster than the stock 2 1/2-3') was absolutely scary above 100mph."

When I mentioned that in my above post I wasn't kidding; the steering was so slow to react and unresponsive at that speed that a crosswind would have put me in the next lane (or off the road) before I could do anything about it. I never drove it that fast again. Most VW drag racers that hit 100mph or more put more caster into the front suspensions of their cars for this very reason; they want to be able to combat a crosswind at the high end of the track so it doesn't push them into the other competitor's path or into the wall.

Guys- I may be preaching but this needs to be said- EVERY SPEEDSTER REPLICA NEEDS MORE CASTER THAN THE DONOR CAR/SUSPENSION HAD; THIS IS FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY.

Yeah, ^^X2 what Al just said!

For my last alignment, I was lucky to get a tech who was an ACVW nut.  In fact, he had a 60 bug body on a 71 pan running a 2,332 engine and porsche 944 brakes all around.  Before I even mentioned what I wanted for Caster (and after he took a pre-alignment road test) he was already talking about the need for more caster.  

Loved that kid - Mohawk, tattoos and all!

Thanks for the info this is very helpful, I will point this out to the wheel Alignment technician.

Tramlining is mostly caused by the camber thrust of the tire. A tire on a sideways slope changes shape from a cylinder to a truncated cone and makes the tire want to turn in the direction of the upward slope. It's why motorcycles need less steering input leaning into a turn than they would if straight up, the tires are providing some steering themselves. Take a basic styrofoam coffee cup (a cone shape), roll it across your desk and it will roll in a circle, not in a straight line; same thing.

Wider tires, stiffer sidewalls, greater wheel offset, excessive camber, toe-out, and sloppiness in the steering linkage can all effect tramlining. Does your car have larger diameter and/or wider wheels on it? Assuming your alignment specs are ok, and you've added shims to increase caster, and you don't have any worn bushings/ball joints/tie rods/steering box, the easiest thing to try next is to use lower tire pressures. What tire pressures are you currently running?

Good info Justin.

Justin/ALB...the car has about 2000 miles on it from new about a month ago. 

All the suspension components have been checked and reported to be in spec and tight.

It has the stock tires and wheels. Tires are at 27 psi. 

It has been aligned to 68 VW specs with 4.2 degrees of castor with one set of shims.

The alignment tech will not install a additional set of shims, sez one set is all he would ever put on a car. Sez another set would not help the problem as I describe it.....sooo...what now ?

Take it to a different alignment shop that is willing to listen.  Print this thread and show it to the guy.  If he STILL doesn't believe it, move on to a shop that will.

in the meantime, 27 psi is a LOT for cars as light as these.  Try dropping it to 22-24 lbs. and see what happens (no, you won't hurt anything).  I'll bet you'll like 22 lbs a whole lot more than 27 Lbs.

Yeah, the rear is fine, but drop the front to 18-22 psi range and see how it feels (for comparison vw of mexico lists 18.5 front, 27 rear for beetles made 10 years ago).

Yes, it'll be a little harder to turn at slow speeds, but shouldn't be as squirrely at speed and even give a little nicer ride.

I have a Surperformance MkIII that has 18 PSI all around..it weighs about 2300 lbs and handles night and day better than it did with 30...so I will try that and will take it to another shop and add another set of shims.....     

^^^What Gordon said^^^ The problem is that your alignment guy is going off factory specs and sees no reason to deviate. If all you ever did was the legal speed limit it could be said that what you have now (over a degree more than stock) would be more than enough. But what happens when you start playing at 75? 80? 85? and even rip it up to 90mph or more? Your car is also almost a foot shorter than the suspension was engineered for, and to be as safe as possible at these higher speeds, a little more caster will make it just that little more sure-footed. I know it seems a little nit-picky, but another degree or 2 (anything over 5') is really where it should be.

What about checking with the local VW club; maybe they have someone they use for alignments that's a little more open to suggestion? And the guys are right, you'll be a lot happier with a little less air in the tires. Al

I run (3) of the caster shims each side (w/the longer bolts). Made a world of difference.

Did you weld them together or tack weld them ?? 

Just slide them in and tighten the (longer) bolts.

They're not going anywhere once installed.

Once again Gordon is correct. They just stack against each other.

Stock alignment spec for a Bug also has no camber. I had my guy put about half a degree negative camber on the fronts and it's good with one caster shim (about 4.5 degrees positive caster like yours). Rears have about the same camber. Toe is at 1/8-inch.

Coming home from the shop it felt wrong though. Rough & a little squirrely coming down the big hill at 60. So I checked the tire pressures & found that the numb nuts had inflated them all to 36 lbs!

Backed the rears down to 25, and the fronts to like 16. Then it was right.

When auto-X time came I added a few pounds. I think I ran the fronts at 20 and the rears at 27. Beat a couple Miatas and a Suby WRX that way in raw time with only 46 horsepower on tap.

Thanks Ed... I will do the Castor and tire pressure first and see how that turns out.

Some of the boys that work in those shops are thinking about beer and pizza and girls some of the time and not so much about what they are doing to your car.

Thanks guys...got it done...added a set of shims and lowered tire pressures... much improved...