Steering Wander.....

I suppose by this time and with all this input (VERY informative), the problem here has been rightly identified.  And the fix is in the works.  Hope so.  I'll admit I have not studied every word here, so might have missed it, so will just plow ahead anyway.  My car was very twitchy when delivered, and had much the same sort of wander, etc. that you describe.  I put up with this for a time, and finally got down and dirty to figure out why.  Short of story was I had toe-out vs. toe-in.  It was really bad -- basically not set up by the builder.  I reset the toe just using a tape measure to give me the proper toe-in, and the wander went away, car tracks fine now at speed.  Probably have not hit 100, but have been near 90, and for more than a few secs.   Before you go to all this trouble about caster, be SURE that the toe in is properly set.  Just sayin' . . .

Before you go to all this trouble about caster, be SURE that the toe in is properly set. Just sayin' . . .

Thanks for that info.  I will check the toe-in first because that would be the easiest.  What spec did you use for "correct" toe-in?

craig

I used this (camber compensator) or one like it on my Beck & it cured the wandering feeling.  

https://www.cbperformance.com/...asp?ProductCode=2819

Craig- Aim for 1/8" toe in.

Gulley- The camber compensator will limit rear suspension travel somewhat, and as well as controlling rear alignment changes (and jacking effect as the rear of the car goes up and down),this will allow the front suspension (and it's alignment specs) to remain more stable at speed. I'm guessing this is what you're experiencing.

Guys, Kelly mentioned making sure the toe-in was correct, and I (as well as others) mentioned it in multiple posts right from the beginning, but I'm going to say it again. If your car is having any sort of issues at speed at all, start by making sure all suspension parts are in good working order and it is properly aligned (I said this in my 1st post and think I listed pretty well everything except the steering joint and tires in my 2nd). If you like to travel (even briefly) above posted legal speeds at all and it wanders and/or it is twitchy in the slightest, put some thin shims under the bottom beam to increase the caster, as it doesn't matter how much caster you do (or don't) have, your car needs more to be safe! 

If the front of your car was lowered with offset spindles and the front frame head is stock, at best it has stock caster, which is not enough to be safe at much above legal highway speeds (unless, of course the rear of your car is noticeably lower than the back). If the front of your car is lowered by a Select-a-drop, center adjusters, or the center sections of the beams have been rotated and then re-welded, your car has less than stock caster and needs a set (and maybe even 2 sets) of caster wedges. If your car is appreciably higher in the back than the front, it has less caster than it would if it was closer to level.

Roger that -- 1/8" is good, 1/4" would do.  And this would be considered total toe.  The difference between the distance between the centers of the front of the tires and the distance between the centers of back of the tires -- I hope not too many "betweens" there?  "Front" here is fwd-most, "back" is aft-most parts of the tire.  Some might say that toe-in is measured relative to the center-line of the car, and if you have lasers and mirrors and such, and can do a true thrust alignment (all four tires) I suppose you can figure out what that is and adjust accordingly.  If all you have is a tape measure, then you measure right on the tires.  And as said earlier herein, be sure the steering wheel is dead straight ahead, and that the car has been rolled fwd into the measuring position, more or less level the whole way.  It can be done solo, but is always easier if there is a helper.  Solo: You can drive a small nail a little ways into the fat part of one of the central tire treads, and hook the tape measure to that; or maybe snag the measure in a tread groove, and hold it there w/ some duct tape while you crawl over to the other side.  The tread landmarks you use on the front part of the tire need to be the same landmarks that you use on the back.  If you want to be sure about this, you can jack the car up in front and get a sharpie and hold it steady to the center tread of the tire as you spin the tire and mark it clearly all around the center circumference.  Put the car back down, roll it FORWARD into position, and then get to it.  Does this sound like I been there, done that?  well, . . .  shade tree mechanics do what they gotta do.

Thanks for the info on toe-in.  That will be my No.1 check.  Workability of other parts No.2  and then check my camber cams on the upper ball joints to see how they are set.  Since I "guessed" when I re-installed them, I suspect they are not correct.  Or better yet, I'll set them to correct, then check the toe-in.  

By the way and FYI, everyone assumed I was complaining about steering wander at high speed, but actually I meant at normal 35-55MPH driving.  If you've ever steered a boat and you've tried to keep it straight, you know that too much correction gives too large of a direction change.  That's what I have.  If I try to hold the steering wheel centered, the car drifts right or left and upon slight correction to steering, it goes way off the other way.  I'm sure I've got a poor steering column joint rag or bad steering box.  I really wanted to replace all my tie-rod ends but could not get any of them off.  Haven't tried applying heat to loosen them.  Just gave up and assumed with only 6000 miles after build, they should be good.

Suspect I can't use a camber compensator as I have an IRS rear.

thanks again, craig

Tie-rod ends: You should be able to detect any gross looseness, rattle, whatever in a tie rod by looking at it closely while you gently rotate the steering mechanism back and forth. If there is noticeable relative motion between the ball end and the socket end, that would be reason for alarm. Might be able to feel it with your fingers.  If they were new 6,000 mi ago, and you've hit no curbs too hard, then they would not normally be suspect, seems to me.  Alan may have another good idea for how to check the tie rod ends for damage or excessive wear.

If you have a ragged rag joint in the steering column, well that needs to be fixed #1.

Classic toe-out behavior.

I don't know about pounding nails into your tires to try to measure toe. That seems like a good way to introduce error into the reading, at best.

I use the Muir toe-set method. Roll the car flat and straight to the testing area and get two long flat sticks with enough overlap that they can be held together with one hand whilst stretched between the insides of the wheels just at the tire lip. With the sticks in one hand and a sharpie in the other, get them tight between the wheels as far forward as you can, then mark the edge of the stick where they overlap.

Then the hard part: a second measure as far back as possible on the front wheels--in that same lip spot where the tire meets the rim. Mark the second line.

If your toe is good you'll be able to see the first line as you mark the second. You'll now have two lines about 3/16-inch apart.

In your case you're gonna not be able to see the first line as you're making the second, and the lines will be--my guess--about 3/8 apart. 

Craig,

I read this entire thread again.  There are lots of great suggestions offered.  I'll give you mine: there is an old rule of thumb, that when a car suddenly starts malfunctioning, check the last repair.  In your first post, you said all ball joints had recently been replaced.

For many years, VW owners have been complaining about the quality of available replacement ball joints, notably the Brazilian models.  You mentioned lack of experienced wrenchers in your area.  Not sure who replaced yours, but wandering is one of the symptoms experienced by those who used the dreaded Brazilian ball joints.  Hard steering and failure to return to center are also common complaints.  Everyone agrees that toe in and camber adjustments are necessary after ball joint r/r.  May be worth a day trip to an experienced alignment shop.  Best of luck and please keep the group informed.

One more thing, Craig. You mentioned that you couldn't get those ball joints apart. Do you have the proper tool to get them apart ? It's called a pickle fork...Napa has them , there're dirt cheap and work well.

That rag joint might be the most critical part. If it lets go, you'll have absolutely no steering. None. Please check it soon.

David,  my ball joints are new, it was my Tie Rod Ends that I could not get off, but they only had 6000 miles on them so I didn't care that I could not replace them.  I do have a pickle fork.

Ed, good tip on "How to measure".  I'll keep it noted.  As I may or may not have noted, my car is in hibernation 1000 miles away, I'm in FLA for the winter.  So I will will be referring to this post in May.

Jim, I  installed the ball joints by taking the trailing arms off and took them to a local shop to press the old ones off and new ones on.  I bought the ball joints from NAPA, but do not know their origin.  Don't know if there is a way to tell that now without original boxes.  My receipt probably does not show that data either.

Thanks for the help and tips.

craig posted:

Ed, good tip on "How to measure".  I'll keep it noted.  As I may or may not have noted, my car is in hibernation 1000 miles away, I'm in FLA for the winter.  So I will will be referring to this post in May.

Jim, I  installed the ball joints by taking the trailing arms off and took them to a local shop to press the old ones off and new ones on.  I bought the ball joints from NAPA, but do not know their origin.  Don't know if there is a way to tell that now without original boxes.  My receipt probably does not show that data either.

Thanks for the help and tips.

The receipt might show the part number that was used.  Look that up on their website and see if the source of the part is listed.

yes it might.  I'll check my receipt folder.

While you can't use a rear camber compensator with an IS rear - there are rear sway bars available (if you have one in front already).

Yes I was going to install a real sway bar thinking, "why not have it all" since I have one in the front.  However In reading more on that issue I believe I read that the rear sway bar introduces a VERY stiff ride.  I'm not racing this car, I'm driving it to the local watering holes.  One of my complaints is that my ride is already too stiff and when I hit a bump (1/8" offset in road or pile of dust) my car feels like there is no suspension and the wheels are bolted to the body.  One answer to this was, "get a pair of used shocks".  Really?  I'm going to pass on the rear stabilizer.  

Hey, I was going to come up to FWB to see you (Still might) but it's a 7 hour ride from St. Pete Beach.  What are doing way up there?  Seriously, I may ask if I can come up after the new year to talk to you and see your car.  Will keep in touch.

thanks again, craig

Craig, our friend Greg (a valuable SOC asset!) is in the panhandle so he can keep track of the Russian subs frolicking in the Gulf from his deck chair...Do go visit him so we can have an independent 'progress report' on the status of his speedster!

I've been told that oil filled shocks softens up that jarring crunch the both of us are experiencing. I found an affordable pair on the Samba (they're as rare as hen's teeth) so I'll bolt them in come springtime.

craig posted:

David,  my ball joints are new, it was my Tie Rod Ends that I could not get off, but they only had 6000 miles on them so I didn't care that I could not replace them.  I do have a pickle fork.

Sorry about that, Craig. I got confused about which joints were which. The pickle fork is for the tie rod ends, not the ball joints.

Carl, Good news that we are safe from Commy subs.  I'll definitely get up there.

David, My problem with the tie-rod ends was I could not get them to turn on/off the tie rod.  Sorry, I was able to get them free from the other connection.

Hey, On our way out to local watering hole.  See y'all tomorrow.

Ed, I was just meaning a small nail (AKA a brad) run about 1/4" or so into the fat part of the rubber tread.  OK, maybe just a thumb tack.  Like that.

OK, we'll all go sleep on this one until May and wait for Craig to get back under his car.

Zzzzzz . . .

Crap, and I was just getting out my Paslode framing nailer.

craig posted:

Hey, On our way out to local watering hole.  See y'all tomorrow.

Anywhere near John's Pass or Sea Hags, Craig. We miss that area....

David, I'm 1.5 miles from SeaHags and about 4.5 miles from John's pass.  We went to the Toasted Monkey last night in Saint Pete Beach right on the Gulf.   Sat at the bar, ate Grouper and shrimp and watched the Michigan St./Iowa football game.  Fantastic ending!!!  If you get a chance, shovel some snow for me this year, I miss it .

1/4" total toe-in is too much. I use 1/16” total. 

P.S. : pickle forks rip boots. I don't use them. Loosen tie-rod nut, spray with penetrating lube. Wait a bit. Hit end of steering arm hard with a BFH. It should pop. Heat steering arm a little if BFH alone doesn't work.

Craig - Wish FL Gators had had a happy ending on Saturday!  When you headed UP this way? (Send you dialog or whatever now called ?)  Don't want you barging in when Rich D is here!  (Most likely he'll get snow in up North and will be a no-show.)  

Wolfgang, sent you a PM

craig