Steering won't return to center

When I go around a corner the steering won't return to center on its own. In other words, if I didn't turn the steering wheel back to its center position the car would continue to turn (hands off the wheel). This can't be normal...can it?
So, what would cause it to not center itself after a turn?
Thanks
Ron

Caster?

Caster or sticky steering box.

Several things. Did this just start happening one day? Any work done to the front end recently? I have experienced the same issue. The cause? Ball joints damaged while being pressed into the control arms. If te diameter if the metal 'cup' holding the ball is too large it will crush the ball keeping it from moving easily.

I purchased a new brand, installed and no issue. I'd check tie rid ends as well. It's my experience when a steering box goes things tend to get more loose, not tight.

Tie rods and ball joints are all new. I also had my steering box serviced at the same time.
There is no slop in the steering and it seems heavier than I think it should be, considering how little weight is on the front end.

I just went down and checked my lower beam for caster shims - none to be found.
I think the beam originally had shims, but the dumb-ass who rebuilt my front beam last summer - me - forgot to put them back in. I have a vague recollection of wondering why these curved things were between the lower beam and the pan. Now I know.
From what I've read, adding a caster shim should help the car track straighter at highway speeds and make the steering heavier at lower speeds. With no shims my car still tracks fairly straight at highway speeds (slight wander), but has fairly heavy steering while cornering at lower speeds. If I add shims to the beam will the steering get even heavier?
thanks
Ron

I'd put the shims back but my first thought before I read about the missing shims was: "steering box adjustment."

Sure enough you had it serviced.

If someone turned that adjuster screw on your steering box, it's possible (just possible) that THAT screwed it up.

I don't know but I read a lot.

I had this problem with a MGTD build years ago. The steering shaft coupling was loose, and needed tightened up. I think it was a pinch bolt sort of thing.

Check out instruction on steering box adjustment -

http://www.vw-resource.com/steering_box_adjustment.html

#10 says: Road test the car. If after taking a corner at 10 to 12 mph, the steering does not return to about 45-degrees from the center position, the roller is too tight. The adjustment must then be repeated to prevent damage to the worm and roller.

If you have an adjustable front end - I'd put the shims back in first though.

Just a follow up to my earlier post... My ball joints were spanking new as well. They were damaged when being installed. I had to break back down the front end and install new ones. I went with MOOG, no problems since. The issue people are having is with the manufacturing tolerances of the ball joints. The metal insert is too large a diameter and you end up with too much crush. Also, if the ball joints were installed incorrectly this could result in a heavy steering, not back to center issue. There is a line on the ball joint that should line up with the notch on the trailing arm.

The issue could be the steering box, ive just all to recently worked through the ball joint issue. I actually adjusted then replaced my steering box hoping it would solve the issue. $130 I didnt have to spend. Caster will help your car go back to straight, but if you get a sense that the steering is tight and cumbersome... I suspect it is more than just the box.

great article here:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=424571&highlight=ball+joints+steering+center+centre

Disconnect the pitman arm off the steering box, you'll have left to right free swing of the front end components that enables you to pin point where the binding may be, if it moves freely then look closer at the steering box and or steering shaft.

I'll order the shims and hopefully get them in this weekend. I'll also look at adjusting the steering box.

you should get an alignment anytime you replace front end components. 1 degree out makes a pretty big difference.

Good idea, Mango.

"There is no slop in the steering "

Well, I dunno what's REALLY going on here w/ your install, but I do recall that these steering boxes do NOT like to be set up w/ no slop. Learned that one many years ago. If the ball is to tight in the worm, steering is stiff and the box will wear out pronto -- or so I was told once. Trick is to get it momma bear tight: not too tight and not too loose. HArd to believe that your caster is so far off it binds the steering -- I guess it could happen, but I don;t see it. Do what Alan said, disconnect the steering arm and see if the wheels steer smooth one by each. Probably best done w/ weight of car on the suspension, and that usually means a swivel plate under each tire. Not sure how that gets done under the shade tree, as it were. Alignment shops have these on their platforms. GOOD LUCK!!

Shade Tree Swivel Plates:
Two steel plates for each side w/ grease between the plates.

Leon,

Right on, MGM -- good thinking.

When dealing with my steering problem I'll use the KISS method. I'll add the shims and adjust the steering box, then go for a test drive. As for adjusting the steering box, I may be in for some trouble. The adjuster nut (with the split adjuster) is on top of the steering box, which sits very close to the IMs body. Unfortunately, I don't have a panel cutout to get easy access to the adjuster bolt. I hope I don't have to take the steering box off to make a minor adjustment. That would really suck.

Ron:

I've adjusted the box on my CMC twice since I built it (about 5,000 miles apart). It was a bugger to get at and I ended up making up special bent wrenches to get at it.

I'm seriously contemplating putting an access hole in the current build to make life easier. Something like a 4" dia. hole would be perfect. All I need to find is a decent fitting cover and the hole saw will come out.

gn

Maybe there's a loose nut behind the steering wheel............Sorry, I couldn't resist 8-)

Gordon, Walk though Home Depot keeping an open mind for a steering box access cover, they have many different styles there :~)

I agree, Gordon, an access hole would be a great idea. I wish I had thought of putting one in when I had the car down to a bare shell.
I've decided to not install caster shims. Since the car is at stock height I don't think I'll need them, and it doesn't wander much at highway speeds. I'll tackle the steering box tomorrow. Hopefully, that will solve my heavy steering problems.

On the cover, I had exactly the same idea (great minds think alike, I 'spose). Wander through the Depot, especially in Electrical, and see if they have a decent metal/plastic utility cover box and get one. That should do it.

BTW: That's what the access cover on both 356's and VW's looks like.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#push-in-plugs/=bp8k63

Welcome to the REAL madness. McMaster-Carr is like a gearhead's ultimate candy store.

Another but obscure problem which I have encountered on several cars is the alignment of the steering box to the steering shaft. There is a minute amount of rotational adjustment on the steering box and if it's binding between it and the shaft, it will cause the problems you're experiencing. If this is the problem then Loosen the steering box, and align to the shaft.

You can draw on of the two steering box bolts further in to move the box up or down a bit, for additional box rotation you would have to make a new index notch on the clamp, do not just elongate the notch as that can cause the box to move on the axle beam over time. The correct way to do it would be to weld the notch closed and redrill.

Most Steering box clamps are not symetrical.....They install one way for bugs and "up side down" for Ghias....Keep a sharp eye on the steering shaft snd box shaft alignment....Remembering that that "rag joint " is not a universal......I believe many rag joints fail because of this misalignment.....I think it is detailed in John Muir's VW manual.

Stan (and Alan):

Got a 4" electrical box cover (Plastic) at Home Depot for $1.92

It will be perfect by default.

Besides, from McMaster I had to buy 10 of them. It's like going to Sam's club for Ketchup - Got just what you want, if you want 3 BIG bottles........

Adjusting the steering box....I should have looked at this before I pulled the steering box today. After dicking around trying to get at the adjuster bolt, I ended up pulling the steering box. Taking it off wasn't so bad. I loosened the adjuster half a turn and then tried to put the steering box back in the car. Damned if I could get the steering box shaft to fit in the pitman arm. I tried and tried, then decided to pull the pitman arm and put it on the steering box. I got everything together, but then I couldn't get the steering box and attached pitman arm back in place (stuff in the way). Close, but no cigar. Every notice how hard it is to put the steering shaft end into the pitman arm? Well, I'll tell you, it's a bitch.
I ended up opening up the pitman arm end (by jamming a wedge in), so the the steering box shaft would fit in easier, then I went up to the house, had a shower and poured myself a BIG glass of wine. Tomorrow I'll make another attempt at putting everything back together.
On a positive note, I hole sawed an opening above the steering box, so I can now adjust the steering box without taking it off the car!
This job was about as much fun as taking the headers off my V8 Miata.
To quote Scarlett O'Hara, "Tomorrow is another day."

In the (paraphrased) words of Casey Stengel:

"Ya shoulda stood in bed"

Scarlette said: "I'll think about that tomorrow" I do believe.

Or maybe it was: "Not today, Rhett, I think I have a headache . . ."

Something like that . . .

And the originals all did have a cover plate over the steering box so you could reach the adjustment screw and lock nut. If I ever have to go in there, I'm cutting the hole. Cool deal: try to get an original cover plate and put that in. Which brings to mind a question I have about FG. Suppose you drill or cut a hole in it, what do you do w/ the exposed cut surface by way of sealing? Can't just leave it raw, can you?? Please advise.

Fastidious boat guys do all drilling/ cutting this way: drill oversized, fill the resulting hole completely with marine tex epoxy (put some masking tape underneath the hole to hold the epoxy), then when it dries completely, drill again through that to the size you want. With cutting it's more like cut a little big, epoxy the edges and grind it out a little to return the cut hole to the size you want.

This is supposed to keep water/salt from infiltrating the 'glass matrix, which degrades it over time. My experience and observation with boats is, the wood rots away under the glass, and the glass just bubbles a bit after like 20 years. And that's in Long Island Sound and winters outside with maybe a little cover on it that blows off or rips to shreds during blizzards, after which a freakin' raccoon moves in and drops a litter before you get a chance to prep the boat for fishing.

So fiberglass is tougher than a lot of folks give it credit for.

But if you want to be ultra-neat and anal, get a tube of Marinetex and take two days to do the job right instead of 15 minutes.

Kelly, an original 356 cover plate will not work. the gas tank in our cars will not allow for it. Big brother was tightening the box in his '59 over the weekend. Sent me the following image. Porsche did a lot of things right, love the access to the box/coupler, etc. from the top of the car. the box in our cars would be accessed from the spare tire wheel well like in original beetles. cover plate mounted on vertical surface, not horizontal... for what its worth.

I ended up drilling a hole (3 inch diameter) directly above the steering box. That was as big as I could go (limited clearance). Now to adjust my steering box I take off the driver's tire/wheel, reach in through the wheel well and put a wrench on the steering box adjuster 17mm nut, while my wife puts a screw driver through my new access hole. Not as easy as the VW/Porsche setup, but it's a hell of a lot better than having to take off the steering box to make adjustments!!
The only thing left to do is to make a cover plate for the hole.

"I ended up opening up the pitman arm end (by jamming a wedge in), so the the steering box shaft would fit in easier"

Ron- now when you tighten the Pitman bolt you will need to torque the hell out of it to get it to pinch back down on the output shaft of the steering box. If you don't you'll have slip there, and the slightest slip there can translate to an inch or more at the wheels and a scary loose feeling...

Paul mentioned the ball joints and I cannot stress that point enough. I have gone through a ton of ball joints, from just about every manufacturer, and some are just oversized. They'll press in, and with a hydro. press you really don;t feel the difference, but they seize up due tot he crush and you will have the exact feeling you described. Obviously I have no idea what the exact cause of your your issue is, and you seem to be chasing the gremlin in a sensible way, but I felt the need to stress the ball joint thing one more time as I have seen it many times in the last few years...

Paul - Helpful picture of the 356 inspection plate. The VW plate that we all threw away from the donor - that let you open the front hood should the cable brake would have made a decent (although small door). The plate at front that allows removal of the shift rod would be good alternative - even has a gasket and 2 mounting holes.

On Kelly's point . On boats sealing the often wood/balsa core is important to protect that core. If the fiberglass is well soaked with resin in the build - the glass fibers wicking water is minimal risk. Suspect my CMC is 1/4-1/2" thick there. Anal folks could brush epoxy or resin on the cut edge.

Ron O:

Home Depot or Lowe's electrical section. They have electrical box covers that are 4-1/4" outer diameter to cover a 3" hole AND they come with a rubber gasket. Four machine screws included to attach them could be replaced with four sheetmetal screws to screw into the fiberglass.

Gordon, Home Depot is on my shopping list.

Carey, I hear you about the pitman bolt. I torqued to spec, but I'll do it again. If I still have problems with my steering checking the ball joints will be my next step.

Paul,

Thanks for the picture -- looks quite familiar, even through all these years. Although I never tried it, seems to me that the port hole here was big enough to allow R&R of the st. box. And you are right about the gas tank maybe being in the way for such a large opening in a replica. Txs also to those w/ instruction for sealing the cut edge. How about nail polish? I take it that the best thing to use would be epoxy resin, i.e., what is used to form the structure in the first place.

And a hole through which to fish a coat hanger and unlatch the hood is a very clever idea, BTW. Gonna be hard to make that hole lying on your back in the gravel on the side of the road, or on a greasy patch at some gas station 80 miles from home. I'm just sayin' . . .