Structural integrity

As a newby hell bent on finding a speedster I have enjoyed gaining much needed knowledge from the postings on this site. My goal with an entry($)level car is lower hp cruiser. I enjoy the image more than the flash. Is there anything inherenty wrong with a non tube frame (CMC)supporting the body. Or have I read too much advertising copy?

I am a firm believer in the advantages of well-designed tube frames (obviously), but structural integrity should not be a problem with a well-built CMC. I've driven Gordon Nichols' Pearl, and ridden in Bill Drayer's Blackie, and both are very solid cars. With CMC/Streetbeasts cars, the quality of the build is the most important variable, and unfortunately it's often the most variable as well.

Since you say you want entry level I'll make the following suggestion: Unless you can find a CMC built by Alan Merklin, look for a used Vintage with low mileage. That's how a lot of the folks here started out, and they love their cars. You can often find something in the teens. If that's more than you want to spend right now, be willing to put some work into CMC to make it what you want. Either way, Welcome to the Madness!

After re-reading my post I realized that it might sound like I'm slamming Vintage's as "entry level" in comparison to other makes. That's not my intent. The suggestion to find a used VS was made because there are more of them available at reasonable prices than most others - largely due to the the number produced.

Jim,
One of the main "issues" with the older CMC's is the tail end sagging. I don't think it's a design flaw but more from the car being on the road for years and years. I have an older CMC (or an intermeccanica, it's still a mystery) and I did some modification over last winter that made it sooooooo much more sturdy. If you do it yourself it's a minimal cost. If you have it done by someone (a restoration place) it'll probably be a $500 job and still way worth it on an older base based / subframe car.
See the diaganol bars that run from the baco of the door opening to the rocker.

Jim I am not a shill for Vintage Speedsters and don't jump in here in everytime any car or even some part of a car is mentioned to say "it's better on a Vintage", I will say that not only did I "start out" with a Vintage I expect to end up with it as well because that's what I chose. It just keeps getting better and better as I refine and improve it. Exactly the same as any car would.

Any one of these cars,regardless of the brand name , can be stars or dogs depending on the care an owner will lavish on it or the abuse and neglect they will give it.

Some of he most beautiful and best all-round cars at Carlisle are CMCs like Gordon's "Pearl" or anything that Allan M. has built all being from CMC cars. I don't think Gordon or Allan are in the "start out" phase of Speedsterdom as far as the cars they own; neither am I.

Just my opinion, but I believe all the Speedster brands have plusses and minuses but they all can be a lot of fun and rewarding to own and enjoy.

Do your research, speak with unbiased owners, come to Carlisle or a similar event and ride in the cars to see what you like that is compatable with your wallet. Post here and ask who might have a Speedster you could see---you might get to check out and even drive more than a couple of brands. Look at all the builder's web sites.

Good luck in your search!---Jack

I think the substantial steel FF/CMC subframe is visible in the build manual. It is very heavy substantial steel. I'd say over engineered. Fixing a sagging rear (believe other vendors bodies do it too) is 2-3 hour job of drilling out 2 big rivets per side and replacing with at least big washers and bolts (bonding and fiberglass would be good addition too). Mine is 21 years old and although just sitting in garage has no rear sag yet. My CMC kit came with the subframe riveted and epoxied to the body (plus doors were hung). I've seen just fiberglass bodies (RustyTubs for one) that have no subframe so suspect they would need a full tubular chassis built. On those without subframe, I believe just using the VW pan would result in alot of flex and would stress crack the fiberglass. Nothing wrong with the FF/CMC bodies - some home builders just try to meet the advertized 40 hours build time and the result shows it. Its clearly more like 400 hours --- after all the build is part of the hobby. Nothing a little TLC can't remedy.

You're right Wolfman. I was refering to the stresses endured by years of driving and that area I reinforced is the weakest part of the car so it tends to get the most flex. But I do agree with everything said in regard to all of the different makes have pluses and minuses. They're all fun to drive though!

Jim there is usually a number of speedsters on the ( * ) market, some better than others, may I suggest that if you find one that is not in your local area, maybe someone here can go and check out the speedster on your behalf. Btw... rear body droop as per Wolfgang, is an easy fix. ~Alan Merklin

( * )I know of a white stock body style runnnig condition but can use a bit of cosmetics in KY. around $10k

I guess I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on.

I'm hoisting the bullsh*t flag on you, Lane.
Your colorful, fun and insightful commentary will color the pages of this site long into the future ... right along with your whole-hearted endorsement of Beck Speedsters.
(We hope so, anyway.)

WHATEVER YOU GET, DRIVE IT LIKE YOU STOLE IT AND ENJOY

Jim, one other thing you might consider is where you get your car and how it's registered and the laws in the state in which you intend to register it. In some states it is much easier to register a car that has a vin# from an old VW stamped into the pan. Tube or pan, if you can't drive and insure it legally , it could drive you nuts. There are a few cars around that you can get for shorter $ and spend some time and money fixing and finishing. All depends on your "mad money" budget. Happy hunting

Jim-

FWIW - I have a 1995 Vintage that has logged 97,000 kilometers (60K miles) as my daily driver. It has a meager 1835cc/dual Kadron powerplant perfect for leisurely cruising or motoring all day at highway speeds while delivering 29mpg. I do only regularly scheduled oil changes/tune-ups. Low cost to drive and maintain.

There seems to be a lot of nice Speedsters available, I'm sure you'll find the right car at the right price. Other than the usual due diligence, no need to overthink the process.

...I'm just saying...

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions. The learning curve is a lot easier after reading the past posts on this site. If the economy doesn't tank completely I will be posting of a new acquisition in the near future.