Stuck in gear

Do you have a hydraulic clutch system or the old VW cable setup?  Hydraulic leak, slave cylinder failure or broken cable ----or broken clutch release fork. 

Being Senna's Dad, I don't want to bring up bad memories, but just after your sons death, Michael Schumacher drove a good portion of the Spanish Grand Prix in 5th gear.  He even pitted and went back out, starting in fifth.  Amazingly, finished in second place.

 

So I would only expect that Senna's Dad could do the same through traffic.

-=theron

After the second time, I had the car in the shop to flush and bleed both brake and clutch line; I was on my way home from the shop when this happened.

Senna Sr. --

 

Can you shift gears when the engine is NOT running or is it just as locked up whether the engine is running or not.

No shift when running / Yes shift when not running = clutch related

No shift when running / No shift when not running = transmission or linkage related.

 

Is this a mid-engined spyder or rear engined speedster?  (your avatar looks spyder-ish)

Theron: Actually, Senna is my daughter's name; she was named after Ayrton in the Spring of his first world championship year.

 

Yes, I wish I had 600 plus horses, that would have made the drive easier; but last night I felt more like Han Herman driving a leg of the Targa Florio in light mist and dodging large moving chicanes.

 

 

 

RS-60 Mark:

 

My car is a Spyder; the symptoms seem to be associated with the linkage.

I think the gear selector is from a VW, lots of play in all three axis.

I was not able to disengage the transmission even when the engine is off.

 

A long shot here, but I had similar symptoms and all it was is the two bolts holding the shifter in place on the tunnel were not doing their job. One bolt was out and under the carpet and the second bolt was very loose. We put them both back in nice and tight and all was well.

David, I had the same experience years ago with a bug. Worth taking a look and an easy fix.

Senna's dad  --

 

Well, if it is linkage related it could be a lot of things, but probably (hopefully) none of them major.

 

I have a VW shifter box on the floor too, and a Jamar on the trans tail shaft.  What do you have on the tail shaft?

 

You say that you can move the stick shifter around, but nothing's happening at the trans.  The first and most obvious thing to check is at the tail shaft of the trans.  Have someone move the stick shifter around in the shifter box while you watch the tail shaft of the trans.  It could be that the shifter mechanism attached to the tail shaft simply has loose set screws (not unusual) and is slipping around on the shaft.

 

And, similar to what the guys have said above, even though you don't have a "tunnel" on the floor, make sure that the screws attaching the shifter box to the floor are tight and the two screws on the top face of the shifter box are tight.

 

The point is that when the shift stick is moved, that movement must be translated to movement of the trans tail shaft with NO slack or slop in the linkage mechanism.

 

As a side note:  with the shift linkage disconnected from the tail shaft attachment, you should be able to manually shift the tail shaft through all of the gears (by hand).  You may want to jack one or both wheels off the ground to do this, just to free up any load that may be on the trans gears.

I've checked all the above recommended connections, none of the bolts were loose.  

 

How much play at the base of the gear selector and at the gear box linkage is normal?

 

My observation is that the normal throws while changing gears are not that far from the fulcrum, but when it was stuck in gear, I was able to push the gear selector much farther than the normal amount of throw.

Dad....   Ideally there is ZERO free play....   If the shift handle is moved, the linkage should move immediately....  Any slop will become a problem sooner or later....

It really does sound like what you get with a loose set screw in a coupler. Check the shaft couplers at the shifter end, at the back, both sides of the u-joint in between, and on the transmission hockey stick. Also check that the clamp on the nosecone is tight. If you have a helper and the shifter is still moving more than normal, you might be able to see or feel parts moving relative to each other at those points when they shouldn't be. Or use a grease pencil or marker and draw a line across each joint. Move the shifter about and see which joints no longer line up, not just rotation, but look for in and out too.

" Third time this happened." "and when I depress the clutch I can still feel that it's engaged." "After the second time, I had the car in the shop to flush and bleed both brake and clutch line; I was on my way home from the shop when this happened."

 

Still sounds to me like the hydraulic clutch system has a leak or the master/slave cylinder isn't compressing the fluid (and needs rebuild or replacement).  When you press in clutch pedal the pressure plate should disengage the clutch plate and you'd free wheel. Or if they both check out good then the clutch release arm weld broke (fairly common).

 

 

 

 

 

Spyders I've seen have a small bracket on the right hand side at the engine firewall with a VW shift rod bushing guiding the shift rod.....  I had problems with mine wearing out very quickly and had to replace it every 6 months until a machinist friend made me one from naval bronze.....  Just something to check....  If the clutch cylinders are aluminum, they may have a short life span....  Many users have them lined with a stainless tube to offset the problem....  Wolfgang may be right on target... 

I just found a fresh new puddle of hydraulic fluid on the driver's side, I'm guessing it came from the master cylinder area; I'll have to pull off the driver side wheel to find the source of  the leak.

The fluid puddle was a red herring, there's no leak in the clutch hydraulics. 

 

The transmission is stuck in gear even when the clutch is depressed, there’s no clutch disengagement.  Will an adjustment to the clutch lever at the bell housing help?

Can you observe the slave cylinder while someone works the clutch pedal?  You may not be getting adequate travel.

Good point, there's movement but not very much; also the point of attachment of the slave cylinder at the bell housing can rotate at it’s axis.

If movement is too slight and nothing mechanical has changed, then you're not getting full hydraulic pressure.  The puddle could be from whatever component is allowing fluid to pass by the seal.  It won't be a full time leak - only when pressure is applied.

Bent hockey stick?

Senna  --  did you bleed the clutch hydraulics yet?

 

If I correctly read what you are saying; you say that you push the clutch pedal but the clutch lever arm on the bell housing barely moves.  (Of course, if the lever arm isn't moving then your clutch is not disengaging).

 

I am familiar with this symptom, the first time was a flatbed trip home. 

 

If you have the same clutch master cylinder many of us have then they will clog-up (at least in my experience  --  several times).  I think the aluminum master cylinder barrel gets scored by the repeated action of the clutch.  The aluminum dust forms a crud deposit that clogs up the small ports in the master cylinder.

 

The first time I replaced the master cylinder.  A year or two later when I felt it was starting to happen again I also replaced the master cylinder (they are cheap).  After that, I bleed the clutch hydraulics religiously every year.  Every year the fluid is BLACK.  I pump fluid until it comes out clear and I also can see the bottom of the reservoir through clear fluid.  With this maintenance I have never again had the problem.

 

They do make steel sleeved master cylinders.  But for me it is easier to replace like-for-like and maintain it.

 

As far as your mention of adjusting the clutch at the bell housing  --  don't do it.  There is only one proper adjustment:  1/8" to 3/16" of free-play in linkage connection with the bell housing lever arm.  If you take out that free-play then the throw-out bearing will be riding on the pressure plate all the time, and your clutch will be partially disengaged all the time.

 

Check for the proper free-play then leave it alone.  From there your clutch hydraulics should pull the lever arm enough to disengage the clutch.  If you are not getting enough movement in the lever arm when you depress the clutch pedal then you have an issue in the hydraulic system.

 

 

Thanks Mark, I too had the humiliation of putting a week old car on a flat bed - twice.  Yours' is the most comprehensive reply I've gotten on this problem.

Brake fluid is funny stuff, I once replace the entire brake system in my 300SL in stainless steel, all cylinders lined, new brake lines in stainless steel and it still had similar problems when it sat for a long period with disuse.