Stupidity

@Michael McKelvey posted:

@Jack Crosby, thanks for getting back to me.  When I first read your post I thought you said there is a Raby setup that DID look like stock VW.  Then I realized you were talking about the DTM system.

I have gone ahead and ordered a 36hp style shroud with the heat outlets.  I have ordered it through Awesome Powdercoating and they will modify it to accept the thermostat flappers and powder coat it.

It will be interesting to see if I can notice any cooling difference between it and the stock shroud I have been using.  I am slightly concerned that their heat outlet system seems to block air to the cylinders a bit. I suspect it also won't move as much air through the heating system.  As I noted in another, topic, I plan to add tiny fans for the defrosters.

With my stock shroud, my oil temps stayed around 180 degrees.

I would love to attend the Smokies gathering but we are still being very cautious about Covid, partly because my 94-year-old mother-in-law lives with us.  The last time I attended I got left behind by the more aggressive drivers and there was no GPS to guide me back to the hotel.  I have thought maybe there should be 2 groups of drivers - the really fast drivers and the slightly more moderate drivers.

I did the trip again last year and I found everybody got to drive the pace they were comfortable with and the pit stops were paced so that everyone ended up together before we set off again.  This is a to do  event for me as I take little time off and the only thing that interferes with this is for me is the threat of a hurricane.

The key element to this not being lost in the woods is that the route has been verified by our local man on the scene, Carlos.

What Mitch is describing sounds a lot like the "Ride With GPS" app we use for bike trips.  You select either an area in which to set up a route to follow or you can select existing routes shared by others.  I believe it works with cars, too.  You can then define a group who log in (email addresses) and then you can see where you are on the route and get in-course directions (visual and audio) as you ride along, as well as see where everyone else in your group is.  My group rode the Empire State Trail in New York last week and they used it to drive to the start motel in New Jersey the day before the start, too, with the "directions to route start" feature.

I mostly use Waze around here, but I don't know how that works if I venture into poor cell coverage.  My fallback is my Tomtom GPS.

@Gordon Nichols I noticed you didn't apply for a temporary visa to get into NY LOL!!!

That app sounds cool.

RE: SMO:

I might drive quick if Michelle is NOT in the passenger seat. When she is, we'll be moving slower. Mike B is right, we stop often and catch up. The year Michael M came, I believe Kelly got a few people lost. Stan, Lane, Ron, and Carlos stopped and waited by an abandoned cabin for a while. We sent a couple scouts to backtrack but nobody was there.

Heck, I think we waited about an hour by that cabin.  It was kinda creepy.

The reality is the the number of cars this year is such that we may have to do just what someone said and have "fast" and "slow" (or at least "not quite so fast") groups, although that may be difficult with only one local (@Carlos G) that really knows the roads.  We'll play it by ear.  As always, the first day will only be somewhat fast as it is our scenic drive.  I will suggest that everyone who believes they won't keep up either have maps or a GPS that will work in the mountains, just in case.  It will increase everybody's comfort level because when you have more than a handful of cars separation is inevitable.  Many folks' whole reason for coming is the spirited drives so we can't mandate that everyone goes slowly.

@Lane Anderson posted:

Heck, I think we waited about an hour by that cabin.  It was kinda creepy.

The reality is the the number of cars this year is such that we may have to do just what someone said and have "fast" and "slow" (or at least "not quite so fast") groups, although that may be difficult with only one local (@Carlos G) that really knows the roads.  We'll play it by ear.  As always, the first day will only be somewhat fast as it is our scenic drive. I will suggest that everyone who believes they won't keep up either have maps or a GPS that will work in the mountains, just in case.  It will increase everybody's comfort level because when you have more than a handful of cars separation is inevitable. Many folks' whole reason for coming is the spirited drives so we can't mandate that everyone goes slowly.

All of that (^) is great advice from the organizer of the Tour de Smo.

Those of us who are making this an annual pilgrimage come to drive. This is a "driver's event". We're a big tent, and would love to see you all. There are plenty of things to do in Brevard if you want to come and just hang out with like-minded people.

But large chunks of most days in the main group are going to be spent wheeling at a "brisk" (75%- 85%) pace. We don't cross the center line on blind curves to pick the very best line, but we move right along through the mountains. Forewarned is forearmed.

If you have a breakdown, nobody is going to just leave you, but having some sort of plan is a good idea. At a minimum, a pad and pen to leave a not under the wiper if you have no cell signal and accept a ride from a stranger would be a great idea. My car has taken a ride in the Ron and Maddy Emergency Recovery Trailer, as have others'. We might not stick super-tight, but we do stop to regroup and anybody's absence is noted.

As to the "why?" of the pace - driving is the point of this entire thing. There is no shortage of events I can attend locally if I want to sit in a lawnchair and jawbone about my pride-'n-joy as people wander by and put their sticky hands all over it, and there is already a Speedster/Spyder event held every May in Pennsylvania built around that sort of thing. There are precious few roads like those we drive on in the Smokys, and I take a week out of my life every fall to exercise my car with haste and vigor.

The comradery is great whether you are bombing through the mountains or haunting the many art galleries etc. If you are on the fence - the women do their own thing most days, and Brevard is a much more "wife-friendly" place than the Maggie Valley.

Having maps, tools, and your wits about you are pretty much de rigeuer - as I said, nobody is going to leave you behind. If you run with the main group, you'll leave a better driver than you came.

Gotta love thread-drift - stupidity in the garage to Tour de Smo discussion.

@DannyP wrote: “I noticed you didn't apply for a temporary visa to get into NY LOL!!!

I didn’t make this trip.  It started in Battery Park in lower Manhattan and rode along the Hudson up to Schenectady (350 miles or so).  I’m not comfortable on deep urban streets anymore (Already been hit enough) so I passed and that meant that I didn’t have to get the eleven different anti-NY-disease shots required to visit your fair state.  Otherwise, if they snuck in without the shots, they would all be infected with “New Yauck” accents that last for weeks unless they go to rehab or something.  I mean, you’se guys are harder to unnah-stan than us guys in Massachusetts!

I’m doing a video of the trip and I get to see it all that way.  They gave me over 800 still photos and over SIX HOURS of raw video footage from a week on the trail to turn into a 20 - 30 minute video.  It’s so long in it’s raw form (67 mins right now) that I’m thinking of getting “David Attenborough” to narrate the darn thing and start up a Youtube channel.   We could be like “The Muppets take Manhattan”

”The Cyclones (that’s us) Ride The Hudson Valley”    🚴

@Michael McKelvey posted:

Gotta love thread-drift - stupidity in the garage to Tour de Smo discussion.

I think there's usually enough stupidity on the TdS to make the logical connection here.

I used to use AAA Triptiks on my motorcycle trips. Handy little map/directions that would fit in a tank bag.

Figures that they’ve made an app.

https://triptik.aaa.com/home/index.html

Apparently that cabin during the 2018 run was a market/trading post back in the day. At this point, your in the middle of nowhere.

A smaller group for the zippy day is easier to manage. I even supplied a printed paper map, ala old school, for that ride.

I can put together a google maps "cruise" route and someone else can transfer it to  a "sharing on a mobile device" format so that it's self guiding. Sorry, I'm as simple as my car.

As was suggested, I went with the 36hp fan shroud.  I got the version with heat outlets.

The shroud is installed and the engine is back in the car.  The only thing left is installing the hoses on the shroud heat outlets.  This is complicated by the CB breather partially blocking the right side heat outlet.  It is also annoying that the heat outlet diameter is less than a stock shroud resulting in commonly used hoses being too large.

I originally wanted to use the black corrugated plastic hoses. As received, they were too short and the openings on both ends were too small.  I spent a couple hours with a heat gun stretching them and enlarging the openings. I managed to install a hose on the left side.  But, I think the hose is too stiff to have any hope of fitting it around the CB breather and connecting it to the heat outlet.

I also tried using the aluminum hose often installed.  It got all crumpled up when I tried to get around the breather.

Next, I am going to try this hose:

It is Silicone-Impregnated Fiberglass, Steel Wire Reinforced.

Has anyone else used this shroud/breather combination and successfully installed a hose on the right side?

I am going to cut off the enlarged ends of the black hoses and fit them over the shroud outlets to make them 2" to match the hose.

I didn't like the orange hose so I installed black hose.

Old shroud:

New Shroud:

In the second new shroud photo, you can see that the hose is pressing down my throttle linkage. So, I may have to change the breather.  Unfortunately, If I do that I may have to revise my braided stainless hoses to the breather.

Colour is important says my wife... Looks very nice, any chance you can make a SS or Aluminum bracket attached to the shroud,  to hold the hose away from the cable ?  I would think that it would minimally affect air flow.

The hose would have to move up.  It is blocked by the bulge on the side of the breather. I thought about putting a bolt through the hose and tightening it to flatten the hose.

A broad SS clamp like one for a radiator hose that is wide might work to provide a more controlled compression.

My thinking was to only compress it in the vertical direction.

If I may make a suggestion, @Michael McKelvey - why not make (or have made) a custom aluminum duct to get clear of the breather. You could always use a shorter piece of flex tube between this duct and the heater boxes. A round to rectangular transition is pretty easy to make, and you could slot the round end so you could clamp it to the shroud.

You could build it out of posterboard for a bit of "Cardboard Aided Design" then take the pattern to a fab shop to be tigged up.

It's just a suggestion, and my wife tells me that I think everybody's entitled to my opinion.

Great suggestion !

It is amazing how what started as a little upgrade has mushroomed.  While my original cylinder tins were probably good enough,  bought into the Awesome Powdercoat ones being an improvement.

Then I damaged my shroud and my car tipped.  I had to buy a new floor jack and a new shroud.

After the new shroud was installed I discovered there is a problem with the CB breather.  I am going to replace it with a costly CSP Tower Breather.

The new breather will require purchasing various AN and NPT fittings and making new braided stainless hoses.

I haven't added it up but I am probably around $1000 for what started as a simple change.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

It is amazing how what started as a little upgrade has mushroomed.  While my original cylinder tins were probably good enough,  bought into the Awesome Powdercoat ones being an improvement.

Then I damaged my shroud and my car tipped.  I had to buy a new floor jack and a new shroud.

After the new shroud was installed I discovered there is a problem with the CB breather.  I am going to replace it with a costly CSP Tower Breather.

The new breather will require purchasing various AN and NPT fittings and making new braided stainless hoses.

I haven't added it up but I am probably around $1000 for what started as a simple change.

Isn't that how it always starts?

For what it's worth, I'm on another forum for 718 P-cars and they use the exact same terminology. Welcome to the Madness.

It doesn't qualify as a serious domino effect until you sell the car and buy another one.

I forgot to mention that I had to order a new alternator stand to work with the CSP tower breather.

It seems the clown car madness gets into just about everything.

I saw a video where a gearhead enclosed steel shelving with plywood making the shelving into closed cabinets.  The subject gearhead was focused, used shop grade plywood, slam bam done.  Quick & cost effective.

My approach also used the shelving as the bones, but I went off the reservation with birch ply and poplar edging for the boxes and panel double doors.  In short, I likely spent 3 or 4 times as much time and money for the same functional resSult. 

I was absent when the economics of focus were covered. 

Sometimes, like some of what Michael experienced falls into the "stuff happens" column.  Those who look for stuff to fix, will find stuff to fix.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

It is amazing how what started as a little upgrade has mushroomed.  While my original cylinder tins were probably good enough,  bought into the Awesome Powdercoat ones being an improvement.

Then I damaged my shroud and my car tipped.  I had to buy a new floor jack and a new shroud.

After the new shroud was installed I discovered there is a problem with the CB breather.  I am going to replace it with a costly CSP Tower Breather.

The new breather will require purchasing various AN and NPT fittings and making new braided stainless hoses.

I haven't added it up but I am probably around $1000 for what started as a simple change.

Did you have to take us down the Covid Breather, deep dive with breathing again  I does add up a lot faster than we think all the time.

Here is the new shroud with the CSP breather.  The CSP breather has one large outlet on the top, 3/4" NPT. Anything I tried attaching there hit the engine compartment hinge arm.  So, I added a tee on the back (front?).  In the engine compartment, front/back is confusing.  I think the part of the shroud or breather that I can see is the front.  Others would say the side facing the front of the car is the front.

In any case, there is very little clearance between the left side of the tee and the machine screw in the alternator plate.  I had to attach the hose before mounting the breather and the hex end of the hose has to have the flat side toward the shroud.

Dang Michael, I wish I’d have known you were going to order a new alternator stand. I have a freshly powder coated 356/912 breather gathering dust in my garage. IIRC, Gene Berg makes a stand to put them on a Type 1 engine.

I don’t know if that would have helped or hurt, but it would look cool.

When I did my Shroud/thermostat flapper project, I was going to use it, but I figured it would be wasted on a Spyder and bought the angled EMPI filler instead.

ps: IIRC, Eric’s (Formerly EVCO House of Hose) sells the original aluminized/cardboard-type heater hose in a variety of sizes.

After doing all this, I took the Speedster for a first drive today - Andrig fan, Scat shroud, CSP breather, Awesome Powdercoat cylinder tins.

I had hoped for a long drive but it turned out to be very short.  When I ventured out of the garage it was running very rough. Back in the garage, I discovered the throttle linkage was disconnected on the 1-2 side. I had disconnected it when installing a fresh air hose.

With the linkage connected it idles about 3000 rpm.  I do appreciate the ease of disconnecting the Vintage Speed linkage from the carbs. 

I am getting continuous popping.  I welcome comments about why that might be.

I am starting to think investment in the Andrig fan was a mistake.  I don't think I like the whistling sound it makes.  I think I will order a new welded and balanced fan.  The last one I bought was from Berg.  Again, I welcome suggestions as to who to buy the fan from.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

After doing all this, I took the Speedster for a first drive today - Andrig fan, Scat shroud, CSP breather, Awesome Powdercoat cylinder tins.

I had hoped for a long drive but it turned out to be very short.  When I ventured out of the garage it was running very rough. Back in the garage, I discovered the throttle linkage was disconnected on the 1-2 side. I had disconnected it when installing a fresh air hose.

With the linkage connected it idles about 3000 rpm.  I do appreciate the ease of disconnecting the Vintage Speed linkage from the carbs.

I am getting continuous popping.  I welcome comments about why that might be.

I am starting to think investment in the Andrig fan was a mistake.  I don't think I like the whistling sound it makes.  I think I will order a new welded and balanced fan.  The last one I bought was from Berg.  Again, I welcome suggestions as to who to buy the fan from.

You can buy a balanced and welded fan directly from Pat Downs.

https://shop.patdownsperformance.com/

@Michael McKelvey posted:

I am starting to think investment in the Andrig fan was a mistake.  I don't think I like the whistling sound it makes.

Well that’s a blow to morale. Any take on temperatures?
In between intake and exhaust noise on my Spyder it would have to be pretty loud for me to hear it. I guess there’s only one way to find out.

@dlearl476, I didn't drive far enough to get a take on the temperature.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

...I think I will order a new welded and balanced fan.  The last one I bought was from Berg.  Again, I welcome suggestions as to who to buy the fan from.

I went through the thread but didn't see it- what happened to the Berg welded fan?

When I took things apart at the start of all this, I discovered the hole in the fan was rounded.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

I am getting continuous popping.  I welcome comments about why that might be.

AFAIK, “continuous” popping is caused by timing issues.

One thought: did you have your spark plug wires off? Double check they’re all in the right place.

I live on top of a pretty big hill. If my carbs need TLC, I’ll get some mild popping descending the hill when the motor is cold. But it goes away as soon as I get on the throttle at the bottom of the hill.

@dlearl476, I don't think the timing got altered when I was working on it but I will check it and the plug wires.

I replaced all the nuts on the exhaust system and I suppose that could have resulted in a leak.

I was disappointed by not being able to drive it more today.  We had a nice sunny 70-degree day.  It was the first drive this year.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

@dlearl476, I don't think the timing got altered when I was working on it but I will check it and the plug wires.

Yeah, neither did I when I did my big remodel, until I reversed the coil wires at the end of a long day and cooked my points, condenser, and, as I found out a month later when I threw my OG Simpson 260 on it, my coil.

After I replaced the P/C, it took me a month to figure out why it would run WFO and idle, but anything in between was riding a bucking bronco.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

I replaced all the nuts on the exhaust system and I suppose that could have resulted in a leak.

Yes, a little leak could cause some popping, so could running lean or rich IIRC. Ignition issues are going to cause major backfires and poor running. But I found out this summer that an A/C VW motor will idle just fine on 3 cylinders. Sounds funny, but it runs.

@Michael McKelvey posted:

I was disappointed by not being able to drive it more today.  We had a nice sunny 70-degree day.  It was the first drive this year.

Tell me about it. I broke my motor on July 30, caught Covid the same day, and since I’m better I’ve been so busy I haven’t done so much as a compression test on it.
Meanwhile, “leaf season” is pretty much over and the roads I love will all be closed for the winter by the time I get it fixed. (Who am I kidding, they will probably be open again by the time I’m done.)

This could be many things, and you’ll have to chase down the various possibilities one at a time, but here’s my recent tale of woe.

My engine had been out of the car for about a month while some transaxle work was being done. Nothing on the carbs, linkage, or exhaust was touched and it was purring when  parked.

With everything back together, there was suddenly a persistent popping that the mixture screws wouldn’t fix. It was happening at one particular rpm (2500), and I could make it pop at will by holding it at that engine speed.

It turned out to be just dirt in one of the idle circuits that somehow magically appeared sitting on the bench, unused, for a month.

The weird thing is that as many times as I have cleaned those circuits over the years chasing down one gremlin or another, that had never before been the cause, but it seldom sits that long without being run.

So, if it’s been sitting high and dry for a while, maybe check the carbs (including the float bowls) for dirt, even if you’re sure it can’t be that.

Just the simple fact that fuel lines were disconnected and reconnected means that something got disturbed or dirt was possibly introduced. Even tilting the engine on R & R could cause some dirt to move from a place where it didn't cause problems to a place where it now IS a problem.

Check your plugs and wires. Scratch that, check the entire ignition system. Tug on things, check your connection points. Chances are it is something simple but easily overlooked.

I third the idea of clogged idle circuit. Same symptom I get when the number 1 carb idle jet is clogged. Not sure why it keeps happening even after installing jet doctors.  Happening so often that now I just remove the air cleaner and mixture/volume screw and spray carb cleaner down the snorkel tube and it runs fine again.

If the car has been sitting for months it is quite probable that there's some schmutz in the gas, particularly if it isn't ethanol-free.

@sethsaccocio posted:

I third the idea of clogged idle circuit. Same symptom I get when the number 1 carb idle jet is clogged. Not sure why it keeps happening even after installing jet doctors.  Happening so often that now I just remove the air cleaner and mixture/volume screw and spray carb cleaner down the snorkel tube and it runs fine again.

If you don't also remove the idle jet itself(and from the holder too AND clean all of it separately) that would explain why it keeps clogging. I would remove the jet and the screw and squirt carb cleaner in both directions.

I might also suggest two more things:

Remove carb top and clean the float bowl. I guarantee there's something in that one carb. Maybe water got in that one side.

Secondly, maybe there is a hose or filter degrading on the #1 side.