Subaru-powered Coupe?

Next time I see Henry I'll have to ask how much weight difference there is between the water cooled and air cooled engines. With the added radiator there is some weight transfer to the front, but not much.

As all my friends in the hot rod world have learned - adding horsepower is pretty easy. If you go there, you'd best be thinking about adding better brakes. Things can happen in a hurry when you exercise the Hp.

I think the 2.0 WC engines are about 50-75 lbs heavier. At Carlisle Henry said that the base 2.0 WC car weighs about 2200lbs.

Has Sandy talked you into one like the gray one at Carlisle yet, Marty?

50-75 # way up in nose would do wonders for handling and braking though --- even if Subbie engine was hung in rear. I'm very impressed with job Peter did on his IM Subbie. Wish I had pushed for a ride in it.

Charles, I'm just saying there are some things that you shouldn't mess with, and that everyone's limitations are a little different.
I stand by my original statement about the penis thing.....
There must be an underlying thing about why someone would need more than 200 HP in one of these TOY cars...But that's just my opinion..
I guess I drive mine for a totally different reason, that's all...

Knowing how I've driven the performance cars I've owned (drive-it-like-you-stole-it), the next item I would have to install after re-powering my Speedster/Coupe with a 200+ engine, would be a fire-proof tag welded on the underside of chassis that reads "If you are reading this, please deliver my remains to the Neptune Society for further cremation and disposal. Furthermore, please send the roll bar and 5-point harness (or what's left of them) to my memorial service for viewing".

...I'm just saying...(but wouldn't it be fun?!)

Hey Vince! We all know it's all how you use it and not about the size.

I would think that the issues of HP and weight distribution are related particularly on these short wheelbase cars. While the Cr

With a 38/62 weight balance I would be very worried about spin inducing over-steer.

Just for some perspective. My engine is supposed to produce 165hp per the builder. My car weighs 2247 pounds as of the corner balancing back in April. FL 514 FR 523 LR 686 RR 694 (take out 170lbs for the drivers weight). I

Peter, You have a great little car there, very well done. If you can get the engine up some and improve ground clearance and/or lower the rear body it will be sweeter still. AS someone said here: the engine looks like it was built to be in that space -- a very nice piece of work.

My car is approx 2300 lbs and the power is enough to both get me into trouble (fast) and out (power through corners and keep the pressure on the rear tires). No issue with the 32/68 bias so far. What do the air cooled 356 replicas have for balance? My ratio is within 911 limits so I am not worried. I do have 8" rubber in the rear to handle the 168 wheel HP.

Do I want more? You betcha I do! A turbo upgrade, some new ECU settings and new injectors gets me easily to 250HP to the wheels. Beyond that, I need 3" piping for air and exhaust and some new rods, pistons, etc to get to 300+ HP. The Audi TT / GTI 1.8t engine is supported by a wealth of online forums and aftermarket parts suppliers.

That said, I am more than satisfied with the current performance and the car gets lots of attention wherever it goes. This weekend I was at the 356 group NW annual bull session hosted at Denny Aker's house / dream shop with 70 or so 'real' 356s, 550s and a 718RSK. THe car generated no negative comments and lots of interest from the faithful.

It

Good observations, Felix.

Tomm, in response to your question about what weight distribution of the VW-based 356A cars, my IM Roadster was measured about a year ago. It may not be a good comparison since my car has an automatic transaxle and A/C, both of which exacerbate the rear weight tendency. My car weighed in at 41/59. I suspect a similar car with a manual transaxle and no A/C would measure considerably better. I am not sure if your car has the weight added at the rear by the AC components. Perhaps others can provide data on their VW cars. How do the IM-6 rear engine air-cooled cars weigh out?

For comparison, the weight bias of a 125hp 1969 Porsche 911T which was a popular model in the late 60s to late 70s. It had a weight bias of 43/57 but had a 6" longer wheelbase than the 356's. That extra 6" pushed the mass in front of the rear wheel centers forward, improved the bias and increased the polar moment of inertia. It took a skilled driver to race these cars because of their inherent tendency to swap ends on curves.

I did look into the effects of polar moment of inertia on the handling of cars when considering the SAS mid-engine, Subaru-powered coupe. The polar moment of inertia is the resistance of an object to rotational acceleration. When the mass of an object is distributed far from its axis of rotation, the object has a high polar moment of inertia, which improves straight ahead stability but lessens cornering stability. When the mass distribution is close to the axis of rotation, it has a low polar moment of inertia. A mid-engine car has most of its mass within its wheelbase and a low polar moment of inertia, which improves cornering turn-in.

There are certainly a lot of folks on the forum with a greater knowledge of the dynamics of high performance driving that can contribute to our understanding. I would like to think that most of us know our machines and drive accordingly. I like Felix

I learned to drive quickly (dare I say recklessly??) in my first car, a '56 A coupe. Just a normal (60 HP??) engine, but the point is you steer in a fast corner with both the steering wheel and your right foot. Oversteer is just something you learn about. And once you learn it, you use it. The game went up a little w/ my B Coupe, a '61 S90, but same basic deal. All that "training" or muscle memory, whatever you want to call it, is still in there and quite useful w/ the Speedster.

It will be interesting to see what my IM weighs after the total (body and engine) rebuild (2275cc, no AC, pan car). I'm also interested in the front/rear weigh distribution. My IM, in its past life, handled very well at lower speeds (30 to 45 mph). At higher speeds (60 to 70 mph) the car was a bit scary. When going through a fast corner the rear would stay planted but the front end would get REALLY light. It felt like the front end was going to lift off and head for sights unknown. It didn't seem like understeer-more like lift-off. I wondered, before I sold the car, if too much air was getting under the front and lifting it enough to give the steering that light, detached feeling.
This time around I installed 2.5" drop spindles to try and decrease the amount of air getting under the front end, but on my car a 2.5" drop is too much-front tires will probably make contact with the fenders if I hit a big bump going through a tight corner.

Ron, you could try a discrete under-body front air dam that should help with high-speed lift. I'll bet you could make one that is invisible from above.

Good idea Lane

A hard rubber garage door seal will work...

Good idea, Lane. I'll have to see how low the front end is when I get the car back from Henry's

A discrete underbody air dam.

With a built in driveway feeler / tape measurer too!

Drove the snot out of my car yesterday and lived to tell about it.

Tomm

Tomm - you are spot on! The bottoms of those nerf bars ARE flat!

So load up on some more snot - tomorrow is waiting!

Seriously, I really like the rubber air dam feature. With my radiator tucked right behind the front lip of the car I would have to move the dam back 6 inches or so but I may just try it.

Tomm

Tomm, an air dam behind the radiator would likely force more air to go up through it, maybe? A good thing if it tends to run on the warm side.

Correct, Danny. Most modern cars are "bottom breathers" with the major airflow coming from under the bumper contact area. Their grills are just for show. Some cars, like the previous generation Camaro and Firebird, have no real grill opening at all on the front. The opening is underneath, with an air dam to direct air into the radiator.

No, it has not been running warm but I see your point. Also, moving the dam back still does the intended job of diverting airflow from under the car.

Another item to consider as I design my towbar setup.

Tomm

Hey Jim,

If you want a coupe with Subaru engine, talk to John. He just aquire a Subaru and he is thinking of putting the engine on a coupe. So this is a good time to talk to him.

Good luck.

Eddy

If you go the subie, I started with a non turbo, got greedy and changed to a tubo.. a lot of extra work... but its a boxer and sits in the bay real nice... car went off to the painter this week .. a bit of plumbing for the water works, but all do able and power to spare Bill

Looking good Bill. What

Hi Peter, its about 7" I have a modified oil pan fitted .. the car is still work in progress, went off to hte painter just a few days back, I have 2 spare g'boxs .. so should be fine for a while

It looks like CSW has gone from Vaporware to nowhere or maybe vapor. Their website seems to have disappeared.

Did anyone ever see one of their finished cars?

To Charles Gardner:
I love your car so much that before I saw your coupe I'd always thought
I'd want a Speedster or roadster when the time came.
My questions....Have you had any hassles servicing that mid engine
inside the coupe body and under the panels that hide it?
Do the seats get dirty or in the way?
How about engine noise or heat having the engine that cclose?

Regards,

Bart Aldrich

I live about 100 miles from Kingston and sometimes do business down that way. Spoke to the CWS owner three times last summer to visit his shop and he was quite evasive each time. No go. Seems like he's onto a nice idea with the mid engine Toyota/Honda options but I'd be it's these damn Provincial Laws that are preventing him from getting into the business properly. This Province's laws are quite restrictive for even building or importing a replica and even more so in producing one for resale. That's likely his problem.

Bart, The Cr

David, Do you suppose CSW may have bitten off more than they could chew? We have all watched the experienced builders in their quest to replace the traditional air-cooled engines with water-cooled engines of various makes (mid and rear) with some success. We have learned that it takes some innovation, redesign and considerable engineering skill. Perhaps this also might be a reason.

I think I'd still lean towards him being buried under Gov't burocricy. (sp?) I haven't seen one of his complete cars in person or even run, but have seen photos of one all up on the running gear, complete w/ hand build sub frame etc. with engine/tranny installed. It looked like it was pretty much ready to go and when asked him about paperwork and could I meet with him to get going on a build he became evasive. I then looked into the local regs to buy one built up by another, then importing a used one and then building one up for myself from scratch and the writing on the wall appeared quite clear. I don't have time to build one up on my own, so in looking for a deal on a used Speedster I discovered I can only import one that is over 15 years old which led me to the older IM (1983 model)
which I bought in Idaho last Sept. and successfully imported.That said, Henry of Intermeccanica builds and sells them but that is in a different Province and I have no details on the regs there.