subie engine thoughts

@Gordon Nichols posted:

A friend of ours has a Subaru Outback with the flat 6-cylinder engine.  It has always burned about a quart of oil every 400 or so miles (about a tank of gas) no matter how you drive it.  It was that way when new and has never varied from that rate, which our friend says that Subaru says is "within the normal range".  She's lived with and gotten used to it, just adding a quart or so every fill-up.  She now has well over 100K on it and says it's the best car she's ever had so I guess the oil consumption is just a minor inconvenience for her.

That sounds like Ron Mullis' car. The brand new factory short block has been that way from day one. I wonder if the ring gaps are aligned on those cars with that particular problem?

There is one thing that is constant with Subaru, you could get an oil user or not, if you do get one, and your within the Subie guidelines then all you can do is keep monitoring it and adding it and even with that it is still a reliable engine.

My engine was built alongside Ron's and had the burn a quart of oil every few hundred miles (unbeknown to me). It blew on my way back from Carlisle in 2017, which was a bad trip all around as some of you know.

Since the complete rebuild I do not consume any additional oil, so happy accident I guess.

@IaM-Ray posted:

There is one thing that is constant with Subaru, you could get an oil user or not, if you do get one, and your within the Subie guidelines then all you can do is keep monitoring it and adding it and even with that it is still a reliable engine.

That’s weird. Seems like it would wreak havoc on emissions, and spark plugs.

I change my Spyder oil twice a year. It uses about 100cc in between but, judging by my garage floor, that’s mostly leaks.

None of my “regular” cars use any between changes at all, including my 2002 ML with 230,000 miles on it.

Yes of course I don’t have stock cams. To make higher compression is all In the head work. But that also requires a different ECU setup to make the head work ..,work. My Spyder is one of the fastest cars I’ve ever owned with the exception of a 210hp caterham super seven. Again I think that Carey’s 175 hp setup will be a great performance car. But stupid is as stupid does. If you want stupid fast the sky is the limit. I’m getting older. My stupid days may be in the rear view.

BMW same issue... no oil dip stick what a pita

I am definitely leaning toward more power in the new 550 build. When the time comes I will discuss the options with Carey and we will see where this ends up. It will be a year at least, but I will let you all know where we come out.

@550 Phil posted:

I’m getting older. My stupid days may be in the rear view.

Boy, I hope not. Stupid-fast is just enough. Your current car is stupid-fast. You sold a perfectly good Intermeccanica because it wasn't stupid-fast.

We all dress it up and try to act in a manner befitting our age, but it's really just a veneer of civility overlaying some serious juvenile delinquency lurking underneath.

Not every car has to be fast. But the car you need to be fast better (in matter of fact) actually be fast.

Get the stock EJ25 with the stock ECU for the "D", but don't ever sell the Spyder.

You made me laugh Stan ... so true rebel at heart comes with the Y chromosome

Right again Stan. 8 ribs fractured in 14 places, a blown up clavicle and 7 titanium plates made me think I wanted to go slow. You know how that turned out. Guess I just need to submit to the fact I’ll always want those adrenal glands firing. It’s always been that way. Turning 60 doesn’t change a thing. Thanks for straightening me out.

Turning 72 doesn't do much for the urge either, Phil.

Trust me.

72 still got the urge for speed(did recently sell my 2 MC)just had my17 P ECU chipped for 50+HP so Im at 470..crazy fast..any more HP is just insane...  CHP are everywhere:{

Regarding checking oil - the majority of cars owned by the immediate family are VW products of the turbo charged flavor and VW/Audi will tell you a quart every 1-3k miles is normal so there's that habit builder.

Speaking with John at Outfront, he says his new engines should have a specific break-in period; oil change at 50 miles, then again a 2 and 3k (if I recall correctly) and only after that time can you use synthetic in the car.  I asked about break-in oil and I may have heard him say it's in there for first 50 to get proper ring seating.

Would be curious if others have performed similar process with their new subie speedsters/spyders and how your oil consumption is/has been.

The waiting is indeed the worst part!

They usually use some form of dyno oil for the break-in then goto synthetic, and then the preference can be anywhere from OE manufacturer to weigh, like 5w30 or even 5w40 full synthetic depending on the OE of the engine or the builders own specs.

@Foleydb posted:

I am definitely leaning toward more power in the new 550 build. When the time comes I will discuss the options with Carey and we will see where this ends up. It will be a year at least, but I will let you all know where we come out.

Make sure it stops and handles as good as it goes stupid fast. More than 200hp in any Spyder is a fool's errand.

I choose my speedy moments a lot wiser now, but the itch is still stronger than ever. Track time REALLY helps scratch that itch, in a safe environment. Having my wife in the passenger seat helps choose those moments too...

We've had really good luck with OEM short-blocks since the time of Joe and Ron's motors.  Not sure if Subaru figured something out they were doing wrong or what the story is.  They don't tell you much...  Thats not to say none consume oil, as that seems to be "hit or miss" but even the ones that do consume seem to be at a MUCH slower rate.

As for performance, and as several stated above, my target is reliability and usability first.  It is much less common for us to do a built motor and alternate engine management, but we do on occasion.  One major thing to keep in mind is that Subaru provides us/you with a 2 year warranty on your engine in stock form.  Any alterations voids that warranty.  I have not idea what type of warranty Outfront provides, if any, but that is just one consideration...

Carey. I hope it’s ok for me to share this. I emailed Carey a question about a steering wheel. He responded quickly. I added…BTW if you run into Rod Emory or John Oates I really need to know the color of that car. He responded…I can text Rod.
That’s so cool.

Yeah it's fine.  LOL  You can actually thank @arajani for that one.  He introduced me to Rod during one of Anands builds we did here (56 coupe maybe).  Turns out Rod is a really nice guy, down to Earth, etc...  we've since run into each other at other events and races, sold parts to each other, etc...

@msjulie posted:....

The waiting is indeed the worst part!

The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more card
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part

-Tom & his band  1981

I was looking at a BAT auction, then I thought I wonder how much power it makes?

All in all they weigh 2315 lbs and have 180hp, sounds a lot like a Speedster with a subie 165-180 hp range or 180-200hp with a bit of work NAspirated, add a 5 speed and your back in 1982

Back in 1982, sure. But it still will NEVER sound the same as a 911 six.

@DannyP posted:

Back in 1982, sure. But it still will NEVER sound the same as a 911 six.

^ THIS!!!

@DannyP posted:

Back in 1982, sure. But it still will NEVER sound the same as a 911 six.

I remember in 1975 following an early 911 on the highway,  and the Whine of Desire luring me ahead following his trail, I have never been the same since

@IaM-Ray posted:

I remember in 1975 following an early 911 on the highway,  and the Whine of Desire luring me ahead following his trail, I have never been the same since

Just like the Pied Piper of Hamelin.

at 4K RPM in 3rd gear ....the SUBARU exhaust note isn't half bad...but i concur, apples & oranges when talking about that flat 6 noise....in 1976, left burbank in my  18 yr old spoiled rich  brat friends 1976 911S at 3pm and were in the lodge in mammoth at 1/4 till 8pm having a beer....i was like a dog with it's head out the window the whole time....that sound never gets old

Back in the 80s, my friend Walter let me borrow his 1972 911T with MFI. For a week.

I was hopelessly hooked. That car was telegraphic, even with some worn out parts. After one day I never wanted to bring it back.

Later, he slowly rebuilt every part of that car, this time with a 5 speed instead of the stock 4 and a 911s 2.4 motor that he built. I lowered it, aligned and corner-balanced it. Best handling car I've ever driven, with 195/65R15s all around.

@jncspyder posted:

at 4K RPM in 3rd gear ....the SUBARU exhaust note isn't half bad...but i concur, apples & oranges when talking about that flat 6 noise....in 1976, left burbank in my  18 yr old spoiled rich  brat friends 1976 911S at 3pm and were in the lodge in mammoth at 1/4 till 8pm having a beer....i was like a dog with it's head out the window the whole time....that sound never gets old

Actually, with unequal headers the sound is very nice IMO, but as @DannyP just mentioned the early 70's to early 80's IMO is the sweet spot and maybe it is because of the more visceral and mechanical functionality of these cars compared to the newer series which are so different.   They are closer to the 356's in driving experience.

No, they really aren't. I've driven many real 356s and many aircooled 911s. Apples and oranges, my friend.

I concur that a beam front end and non IRS is one driving experience and a 911 front end and IRS is another totally different driving experience, and a totally different car. I think my point was that the era they come from is/was more mechanical, visceral.

Try a Cayman S.

Mid engine, 295 horsepower minimum, stuck to the road.

You will probably like it.

Shhhhhhh Bob. Don't tell people how good the Cayman is. The steering is perfect, just like an early 911. On the track, I was holding the wheel with thumbs and forefingers. It was easy bliss to place the car inch-perfect.

If I had a larger budget a Cayman is what I'd replace the BMW with.  Nice size, beautiful shape, and great balance.  I really enjoyed driving Chris' car in Maggie Valley.

You'll enjoy it even more with the 6 speed. You only need 3-4-5 on most tracks though. Redline in 4th is 130 plus.

One of the last analog-feeling Porsches(non-electric steering).

What is your budget? We should probably take this offline...