I used the search, and although many posts came up for using a Subaru Engine and 5-speed transmission, there was no post that explained what suspension was used. The axle will be necessary, so what rear suspension was used? The Subie front suspension? It seems IaM-RAY has the above described set up, so maybe he would not mind piping in here.
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The transaxle is double-jointed, so I think you get half shafts that fit the wheel side suspension stuff (AKA IRS VW) and the transaxle side spline stuff (Subie) and then you're off to the races.
I believe it depends on the builder. My only experience is with Becks so I'll limit my input to them. The mid-engine Super Coupe I had as well as the new Speedster chassis use a custom double A-arm coil-over suspension up front, with different but custom coil-over IRS at the rear. I believe the others use the '69 and later VW IRS and transaxle with an adapter to the Subaru power plant. Beck Speedsters and some Coupes are rear-engine, and I think they also usually have VW IRS transaxles and adapters for the engines. Check with Carey ( @chines1) to see if they know of a rear-engine Subaru setup. The mid-engine Coupes use the Subaru 5-speed transaxle.
IM has a different set up depending on the combo used.
Subie Engine & subie 5 speed, Reverse R&P, you need special tranny axles short shaft adapters and vw or 930 axles and CV joints IRS.
Front suspension is 900 Series so 914 or 911 and accompanying brakes.
I do not know of a beam front end using a subie engine but i know some used a subie engine and a typeI tranny so maybe they exist.
"... you need special tranny axles short shaft adapters and vw or 930 axles and CV joints IRS."
Modified axles, makes perfect sense. Why change out everything when you only have to change one thing?
I just realized this is about the front suspension (DOH!). Still, what I said holds true. As for using the Subaru suspension in the front, they have McPherson struts which are too tall for a Speedster, so that'd be a non-starter.
Front suspension: at the time of this post you'll find 3 front suspensions that I am aware of.
Beck: Gen 2 (2019+) our own design unequal length a-arm front suspension with adjustable coil over shocks and rack and pinion steering.
the late IM: last i was aware they gave you the choice of either the VW twin bar front suspension or their upgraded Porsche 914/early 911/912 suspension, which is an independent A frame torsion bar front suspension with a strut, which I would guess is modified for height.
everyone else: VW torsion bar front suspension, and some offer an "upgrade" to one of the bolt on a-arm suspensions. I've made my opinion on the majority of these front suspensions very public, and I'll leave it at that.
One correction to what Lane said is that our Subaru motors use a Subaru 5 speed or automatic transmission in all of our products, except the 550 (which will likely always be swingaxle VW). We also have the option to use a 901 or 915 series Porsche trans in the speedster or coupe, as well as a G96/G97 Boxster/Cayman trans in some instances.
I took this question to mean "If one uses a Subie transaxle in the back of a Speedster, does that necessarily require the front suspension from the Subaru donor be somehow incorporated into the rear suspension of the 356?"
I believe SAS did something like that back when he was building cars, right?
But afaik no other builder of Speedster/356 replicas ever did.
Oops, I think I need to be clearer, or more clear.
I was wondering how a Subaru transaxle with the reverse R&P is used because it has its own axles which are not going to match with a VW IRS as the rear suspension. Since the Subie trans drives the front wheels, my thought was that a Subie transaxle is going to necessitate the use of the Subaru front suspension as the rear suspension, but backwards. Even though I know less than nothing about suspensions, using a backward front suspension as a rear suspension does not sound like a good plan to me. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. I don't know.
IaM-RAY cleared up my thinking. The axle is modified to use the Subie CV joint on the transaxle side and a VW IRS CV joint on the wheel side. Simple is often elegant, and in this case, the axle is modified, negating the need for a completely different suspension. Don't know why I didn't think of that, but I didn't, and maybe it is a good thing that I don't build replica Speedsters.
@chines1 posted:We also have the option to use a 901 or 915 series Porsche trans in the speedster or coupe, as well as a G96/G97 Boxster/Cayman trans in some instances.
Wow, getting more information than I bargained for, but very appreciated. When using a 901 transaxle, do you use a modified VW IRS, or a SWB 911/912 rear suspension, or something else entirely?
Ed's right -- infamous SAW/SAS produced a few Subaru powered speedsters that maximized the use of the donor Subaru components. Even using the odd (to German cars) wheel's tight 5x100 mm bolt pattern. NOT endorsement of them but interesting engineering concept.
They offered (if you were indeed lucky enough to actually get one delivered!):
That was a mid engine set up with the whole subie dash buried in there to overcome the immobilizer if I remember right .
Howdo.....This is my Spyder, currently under construction. Not a Speedster but has Subi Trans and engine. Front is VW ball joint with Golf Rack and Pinion box. Rear is coil over. Shifter is cable.
The last photo is what I do while waiting for the car to be finished. A 22" porthole from the HMS Hermes (95) sunk near Sri Lanka in April, 1942. I made the red brass legs and scallop shells using a real scallop that I caught and ate. The legs are reminiscent of a naval marlin spike. Going on Ebay for $5700 soon.......Bruce
That is the traditional setup with tranny behind the engine… when is delivery date? Will it be a boy or a girl in name 
@aircooled posted:Howdo.....This is my Spyder, currently under construction. Not a Speedster but has Subi Trans and engine. Front is VW ball joint with Golf Rack and Pinion box. Rear is coil over. Shifter is cable.
The last photo is what I do while waiting for the car to be finished. A 22" porthole from the HMS Hermes (95) sunk near Sri Lanka in April, 1942. I made the red brass legs and scallop shells using a real scallop that I caught and ate. The legs are reminiscent of a naval marlin spike. Going on Ebay for $5700 soon.......Bruce
If Greg is using the steering rack I think he is(mine that I sold to LI Rick) to set yours up, it is NOT from a Golf. It is from a non-US VW Polo, and bolts to the top beam tube with an adapter bracket.
@aircooled posted:Howdo.....This is my Spyder, currently under construction. Not a Speedster but has Subi Trans and engine. Front is VW ball joint with Golf Rack and Pinion box. Rear is coil over. Shifter is cable.
The last photo is what I do while waiting for the car to be finished. A 22" porthole from the HMS Hermes (95) sunk near Sri Lanka in April, 1942. I made the red brass legs and scallop shells using a real scallop that I caught and ate. The legs are reminiscent of a naval marlin spike. Going on Ebay for $5700 soon.......Bruce
Bruce, isn’t Greg using the VW Polo r&p I sent him?
@howdo posted:Wow, getting more information than I bargained for, but very appreciated. When using a 901 transaxle, do you use a modified VW IRS, or a SWB 911/912 rear suspension, or something else entirely?
IIRC, there isn't a whole lot of difference between a VW IRS, 911/912, or 944 rear trailing arm suspension. I don't think it's crucial. The Porsche stuff might come with good and/or usable rear brakes, but that really depends on what wheel bolt pattern you want to run.
With the different inner/outer CV joints and flanges available, anything is possible.
@WOLFGANG posted:Ed's right -- infamous SAW/SAS produced a few Subaru powered speedsters that maximized the use of the donor Subaru components. Even using the odd (to German cars) wheel's tight 5x100 mm bolt pattern. NOT endorsement of them but interesting engineering concept.
They offered (if you were indeed lucky enough to actually get one delivered!):
- Macpherson strut front suspension - adjustable
- Double upper wishbone rear suspension - adjustable
- Rack and Pinion Steering
- 4 Wheel disc brakes with ABS - power assisted
I still think(and always will) the "ABS" statement is either wishful thinking or seriously NOT configured properly. It may "work", but will it work as intended in an emergency situation?
How could it be done right? The total weight, weight bias, suspension, and brakes are NOT in the original configuration as in the donor car.
It's math and physics. And programming.
@howdo posted:Wow, getting more information than I bargained for, but very appreciated. When using a 901 transaxle, do you use a modified VW IRS, or a SWB 911/912 rear suspension, or something else entirely?
In our speedster we currently use a modified VW IRS, in our other cars we use a bottom mounted a-arm suspension with a camber link and a parallel 4 link design (Chevron B16 derived) I am in the midst of doing something similar to the Speedster as well. The modified VW IRS works great, but it would simplify my life even more if I could produce less parts that fit more products.
@DannyP posted:I still think(and always will) the "ABS" statement is either wishful thinking or seriously NOT configured properly. It may "work", but will it work as intended in an emergency situation?
How could it be done right? The total weight, weight bias, suspension, and brakes are NOT in the original configuration as in the donor car.
It's math and physics. And programming.
We had to deal with Chrysler on ABS when we made the Ramside truck beds and you hit the nail on the head here Danny. Weight changes, weight bias changes, etc... play a huge part in ABS functionality. There may be some sort of ABS remnants left in their configuration but I'd bet it is not an engineered solution.
That said, I HAVE seen ABS successfully integrated into a speedster replica, as well as traction control, crash tensioning seat belts, etc... but that is also the reason they (Renner) get nearly $300K for one of their replicas.
@DannyP posted:IIRC, there isn't a whole lot of difference between a VW IRS, 911/912, or 944 rear trailing arm suspension. I don't think it's crucial. The Porsche stuff might come with good and/or usable rear brakes, but that really depends on what wheel bolt pattern you want to run.
With the different inner/outer CV joints and flanges available, anything is possible.
There are many issues that you mentioned Danny that I completely agree with a lot of fancy newer features like ABS are not for the faint of heart builder even a power brake unit where do you put the vacuum or servo. Not to mention it doesn’t have dual circuits A lot of what IM does Or at least did is use something that is already proven in the marketplace. How do you address a wider wheel span you do X cut on the fenders
As for the question on axles: there are different versions of a Suby inner drive flange that is used for replacing the Subaru inner and allows for the use of VW CVs and axles.
If you have the capability to make custom axles then you can use the stock Suby inner and make custom axles for whatever outer you need. We do both, depending on the application. I also have custom axles made for Suby to VW, Suby to Porsche, Suby to Mazda, Porsche to VW, Porsche to Mazda and also Porsche to Porsche (watercooled to aircooled).
OH Dear ! I should have said Polo, Sorry for the mis-info Howdo ! Thanks Danny, Rick and Ray, Since the Speedster was "Rhonda" and red, I guess I will have to come up with something for the Spyder (which will be black) Maybe "Webster" ?
Danny/Rick. What is the difference between the The Polo (euro) and the Golf (euro)
Bolt pattern ? Do you have photos ?............Bruce
@aircooled posted:OH Dear ! I should have said Polo, Sorry for the mis-info Howdo ! Thanks Danny, Rick and Ray, Since the Speedster was "Rhonda" and red, I guess I will have to come up with something for the Spyder (which will be black) Maybe "Webster" ?
Danny/Rick. What is the difference between the The Polo (euro) and the Golf (euro)
Bolt pattern ? Do you have photos ?............Bruce
Well Bruce I know not the difference between a Polo and a Golf but between the Golf and the Rabbit I think the rabbit is faster by a hare
HA ! ....Good one Ray..........Bruce
@aircooled posted:OH Dear ! I should have said Polo, Sorry for the mis-info Howdo ! Thanks Danny, Rick and Ray, Since the Speedster was "Rhonda" and red, I guess I will have to come up with something for the Spyder (which will be black) Maybe "Webster" ?
Danny/Rick. What is the difference between the The Polo (euro) and the Golf (euro)
Bolt pattern ? Do you have photos ?............Bruce
Completely different. A Golf rack is like 99% of the racks out there. They have a short inner tie rod coming out of each side.
The Polo rack is a center steer, with 2 long inner tie rods.
As can be seen in the pics above, the Polo rack solves the problem of bump steer by using long tie rods, whereas the short tie rods of the conventional Golf rack imparts massive amounts of bump steer.
Well you could always use an articulated steering column with the main shaft going in the middle of the car… ala IM
Ray, that just won't work with the Polo Rack. The Polo rack has driver side steer, straight in front of the wheel.
And with a beam, you'd get massive bump steer(like me and Rick and others keep saying, over and over).
I know nothing I see nothing . Thanks Denny
No problem, Roy.
