Suby Conversion Tranny Whine

Special Edition converted my FiberFab Speedster including the Rancho Pro-comp Suby transaxle all labor and parts included and did an excellent job for $15k. Their work is first class and they use a new short block from Subaru America with a warranty. The result exceeded my expectations. I have had zero issues and am now just at 4000 miles on the conversion. The engine stays cool even in 99 degree full sun stop and go traffic. 

Wow pretty reasonable. Did they have it very long? Looks Great by the way! Does  it have a/c ?

I guess I could change it to West Coast Bruce (since there’s an East Coast Bruce) and someone else could use the “air cooled” handle if they wished. I’m not much for handles any way.....Bruce

No A/C but I could have added it for addition fee. I don't drive it with the top up in nice weather or in the rain. I did have them install a heater core and blower for good usable heat to extend my driving season to include the days it is 30 in the morning and high 50-60's in the afternoons here in Southern Indiana.

  I gave them a $5k deposit in Feb. of 2017 and they Scheduled me for July. They bought a 2007 Impreza donor car and ordered the short block, sent the heads out to be rebuilt and collected all the other parts needed for the conversion. Had the engine parts powder coated to the color of my choice. I gave them my car in July as scheduled and they had it finished approx. (including a week or more of shake down drives for fine tuning)12 weeks later. My conversion took longer than most because it was the first Fiberfab/CMC Speedster they had converted so they had special engineering to work out. Carey, Mike and the gang are perfectionists and have the Subaru conversion process down, their years of experience have paid off for those of us now having our cars converted. It was hands down the best decision. The car is completely different and better in every way. I have had hours and hours of all smiles motoring.

Arden..... I’m into $14,k for my engine and trans. Both Suby. My last Speedster VW engine and trans was at $1

Sorry Arden., The VW drive train was $12.5K so Suby’s are a little more but not much and not at all for the plus power you get and all the other excellent stuff like 5 main bearings, very well designed heads with cross-flow intake to exhaust, DOHC, better cooling, and more. It took a little while for me to make the switch. There will be a learning curve for me with all the electronics but I’m willing to go for it now.

I sold my 2276 type 1 engine with DTM fan shroud & Sebring exhaust for $7500.00 so I recouped half of my conversion.

Jimmy V. posted:

I sold my 2276 type 1 engine with DTM fan shroud & Sebring exhaust for $7500.00 so I recouped half of my conversion.

How much time on the sold engine ? 

Just FYI: 993 engine is just over 550lbs, but once we "undress" them and backdate parts to mate with a 915 we can get them down to 510 lbs, a little over 2x the weight of a T1 VW and 2x the weight of a Subaru.  The 915 gearbox is just under 150lbs, almost 3x the weight of an IRS T1 box.  The earlier 901s will save nearly 50 lbs over a 915.  The 964 3.6 is a touch over 600 lbs.  Plus you have an additional 11 quarts of oil vs aircooled or Suby... but you just cannot compare the sound and feel of the 911 6 cyl... Mmmmmmm...

@Former Member Jimmy's conversion timeline was pretty much average when worked into our "normal" schedule.  We had Meade's car here a LOT longer but I brought it into one of our "winter service" slots thinking I could work it in easier, and it just took much longer to even start the project than expected.  I'd say his car sat in the warehouse 6 months before much even happened.
As for cost, nearly $5k of that goes into the gearbox.  We've had a couple of guys do conversions on a stock pro-street transaxle, but they just don't hold up, so we require stepping up to a pro-drag box with Subaru matched gear ratios.  The way we do the  motors is certainly not cheap, but you wind up with a brand new OEM short block, all OEM gaskets, machined/decked heads, powdercoated top end parts and all new OEM consumables (plus a new water pump, tensioner, oil pump, timing belt). Not fool-proof, but as close as you can get to a new/crate motor from Subaru.  There are also a handful of"trick" weave learned over the years that we implement into every build (like shimming and polishing the oil pump for example).

I'd say the number of Subaru builds (speedster, spyder, coupe) are approaching 70% of our build schedule these days.  The 904GTS is still all aircooled Porsche (with a few custom water-cooled Porsche in the mix) but I know we'll get  aSubaru GTS request some time... LOL Quite frankly, I think and STi 300hp GTS build would be fun.  Same HP as a 993 and 300lbs weight savings...   :-) 

I think I spent $6k or $6500 net to do a DIY swap of a used Suby 2.2 in my MG. Ended up with an 80k-mile bottom end & re-done heads, new water pump, etc. and it took me a full year to do the job—I'd estimate I had at least 300 hours in the conversion. Had a pro build a stout street trans for me with a 3.44 R&P, which is fine for this application.

I'm sure I could do a Speedster install a bit faster these days but very much doubt I could do one for what Carey charges and still pay myself much more than minimum wage. Plus it wouldn't be in the same league as his.

Mad respect for the Beck boys.

To David's question on how much time on the 2276 engine. Just break in time by the builder. The engine came in my Speedster when I bought in 2017 with 100 miles on it. The cam was bad to start with or not broken in correctly and had 2 worn lobes. I had the engine gone through and the cam replaced and broken in correctly.  I had the builder replace the piston, rings and cylinders all bearings, clean and check heads. The cost was approx. $1800.00 so I didn't actually recoup the entire $7500.00. 

It would be neat to see an STI with 600hp the 904 would really move !

@chines1  There are some cars mostly in the vw flavour made with 3.0- 6 cylinders just wondering if you ever thought of using the 6 cylinder flavour.  

I hear the 3.0 is only 55lbs ish heavier than the 2.5L ... 

The newer ones are more powerful in stock form. 

"...but once we "undress" them..."

I'll bet that's something Mike Fincher volunteers for, right @chines1?

No Mike strips all the Suby, but 911s are me and Randy only... higher class and all... ;-)

Ray I could fit a Suby 6 in a GTS or in a coupe, but it won't fit in a Spyder and I really have no interest in trying it in a speedster, although it would fit with only a little modification to the rear inner shelf.  More weight in a rear engine, regardless of the suspension, just doesn't appeal to me at all.  As for a Suby 6 in a GTS, it's looking like we can do Boxster/Cayman for the same cost, so that becomes a question of "why".  Just seems like more people gravitate to genuine Porsche drivetrain if/when they can.

I see the logic especially in the higher end cars having P drivetrain as a whole.

In any case a N/A car is my preference I just appreciate the torque curve being more progressive, rather than a screaming banshee for a street car. 

I am with you 100% on the NA, the problem with Porsche power is the cost.  My 4.1L build broke 420hp, BUT the bill was north of $50K (engine work alone!!!)  I can build a 500hp Subaru turbo for less than 1/2 that and be MUCH lighter.  But then again you just CANT MATCH the scream of a 993 based motor ringing your ears at 7k

P tax continues, parts cost and work required sends most engine rebuilds into the statosphere.  I have a P mechanic that spent last winter doing engines and he was telling me there was 30K in parts for one engine and he had really done nothing to it and labor was on top of that.  Fast becoming a land not for the mere mortal.  

You made me laugh with that WHINE comment.  

I can remember being 18-19 y.o. in the 70's trying to follow a Porsche 6 on the 401 in traffic and the sound emitted by it was enchanting when he was passing cars      Like a siren, ... mermaid,...  calling you to follow  

Most builders say it is not even worth touching a N/A subie to increase it's power due to cost so $ for $ a turbo subie wins hands down in any cost benefit analysis. 

 

Having looked at a few Spiders now and discovered that the Suby 3.0/6 is only 55# heavier and the overall length is  only 1.250" longer than a 2.5 EJ, it seems doable to stuff one in. Of course the firewall is problem but if the engine and transaxle were assembled and installed as a unit, it looks like it would fit with .5" to spare. I won't be doing this but it's fun to seriously contemplate this. Also, the Spyder firewall could be shaped differently. It's already tilted back at the top to allow the seat-backs to move backward a little. Why not reshape it to be moved forward at the bottom 1.5" to allow clearance for the 3.0/6 ? This tilt would not interfere with the seat travel backwards.

Bruce

There is a guy in Australia who put one in a K Ghia. FYI. 

I am very happy with my set up from Henry.  A 993 engine matched to a 915 transmission, gives exceptional performance, and Intermeccanica’s engineering gives a safe and solid ride. 

Agreed.  The sound of a six cylinder air cooled 911 can’t be beat, especially when it’s in a speedster body.

It’s a shame that Henry will no longer be building these cars, because they just hit the sweet spot dead on.

It is unfortunate for sure but IM has caught the go public with your company vogue and right now e-cars after 30 years of teaching our kids are the new koolaid... 

ive had several P cars..86 2.6,    2000 3.4,    2006 3.6,   2017 3.0 twin turbos...i have rarely used my radio,,that flat 6 just humming along..just YUMMY to the ears..

@aircooled It would be easier in an IRS VS chassis. Lots more work on a Beck chassis to gain that room due to being swingaxle.

Thanks for all the info guys something to think about for sure! Seems a little cheaper than the way I was thinking of going. When I pull the trigger I just want to do it right. Its seems like I’m never satisfied with the H/P. Not that mine doesn’t run bad I just get that itch for a little more!! As I’m sure everyone else has too. Lol

I just noticed that I have to hold my shift lever in reverse in this cold weather. Otherwise won't stay in gear.  When it warms up, it's ok,  And does anyone else have a problem with the Suby cutting out around 4800? Carey said to check the numbers from one of the number reading devices,

 

Are you saying that the engine cuts out at 4800 like an rpm limiter?  Does it just miss fire or cuts out?

I use to have a 69VW beetle that would not move out of gear in sub zero weather.   

@Meade I had something like that when my maF sensor was going.

@Meade you have an OBD-II diagnostics port, which can be scanned with a common code reader.  Most auto parts stores have these and let you use them for free.  You will always have a secondary o2 code and a data link code, but note all of the codes and I can reference exactly what they are.
4500RPM is the cutoff point that the motor defaults to if you do not have a speed signal, so a broken or disconnected speedo cabe, a slipping dust cap or a failed speed sensor will cause this.  There are other faults that will cause an early rev limit, but they are usually down around 3500RPM, such as a bad VVT solenoid or an errant throttle pedal signal.  Normal redline and hard cutout for the motor is 6800RPM, just FYI

Buy yourself an ELM27 on Amazon or whatever. Less than $20, and smaller than a pack of cigarettes. Get the Wifi version if you have Apple, or bluetooth if you have an Android device. Download an app for free, it will let you pull codes and reset the ecu.

For that price, there is simply no longer any excuse to not own one yourself. I have one in each OBD car, and my kids got them for Christmas in their stockings.

True story: One year driving to Carlisle, John Eastman's SAS threw a code during our caravan. He was very concerned. I happened to throw my reader into the driver's door of my Spyder just in case somebody needed it. Turns out, it was the VSS(vehicle speed sensor) that was connected with unsealed butt connectors under the car. No big deal, he had it fixed after the Carlisle weekend. But great job, Steve Lawing.......

Bob: IM S6 posted:

I am very happy with my set up from Henry.  A 993 engine matched to a 915 transmission, gives exceptional performance, and Intermeccanica’s engineering gives a safe and solid ride. 

Agreed.  The sound of a six cylinder air cooled 911 can’t be beat, especially when it’s in a speedster body.

It’s a shame that Henry will no longer be building these cars, because they just hit the sweet spot dead on.

Again- things have changed at IM (at least that's the impression I got from talking to someone before Christmas)- if you're interested in having a 911engined/based car built, call Henry

ALB posted:

Bob: IM S6 posted:

I am very happy with my set up from Henry.  A 993 engine matched to a 915 transmission, gives exceptional performance, and Intermeccanica’s engineering gives a safe and solid ride. 

Agreed.  The sound of a six cylinder air cooled 911 can’t be beat, especially when it’s in a speedster body.

It’s a shame that Henry will no longer be building these cars, because they just hit the sweet spot dead on.

Again- things have changed at IM (at least that's the impression I got from talking to someone before Christmas)- if you're interested in having a 911engined/based car built, call Henry

Not so fast, Hombre. No more ICE Intermeccanicas, as per the May 2019 newsletter.

"I am expecting the last Intermeccanica I.C. product to ship by fall of this year"

That was May of 2019, so no more 911 (or any other ICE) powered cars from Intermeccanica.

Intermeccanica Newsletter Spring 2019 As you all undoubtedly know by now, I have been working hard with our parent company Meccanica on the launch of production of our innovative commuter EV, the SOLO, with our China based manufacturing partners Zongshen Industries.  The great news for Intermeccanica customers and fans is that as I have been working on this project, the team at Intermeccanica has been hard at work building Intermeccanicas and, alongside the Meccanica engineering team, developing a new and exciting Intermeccanica: our new E-Roadster! The Intermeccanica E-Roadster “D” and E-Roadster “S” will be replacing the current internal combustion (I.C.) offerings in the Intermeccanica product line and fill a need that has been growing in our market for the past five years.  I want Intermeccanica to be a leader in clean spirited sportscar development and manufacturing the E- Roadster is our first major step.  As we see emerging and traditional OEM manufacturers moving to EV power as a greater part of their product offerings, I believe that Intermeccanica, with the engineering and financial strength of our parent company Meccanica, can become a leader in a new sports focused EV products.  As other OEMs chase ever higher levels of technology and automation in an effort to augment and eventually replace the driver from the driving experience, Intermeccanica is looking to put you squarely back in the driver seat and give you, the enthusiast, the control over this new amazing breed of performance sports cars! The new E-Roadster driving experience will further immerse you in your environment: allowing you to enjoy top down traditional motoring in a new and amazing way. Your driving experience, whether through a forest or city, will never be the same.  The amazingly smooth and beautifully silent performance allows you to enjoy the myriad of sounds around us in a way that an I.C. sports car never could.  The performance provided by our 135 Kw motor and controller matched with our considerable 50Kw battery pack and relatively low mass makes for range that easily matches that of traditional I.C. Intermeccanica 356’s, with the additional benefit of 235ftlbs peak torque.  The Meccanica engineering team has a few driver interaction features in development that are sure to engage even the most passionate of manual transmission drivers, but as an option, as this EV is powered by a single speed transmission, so there is no shifting required! Intermeccanica is currently testing and refining our second E-Roadster prototype and has four production E-Roadster’s in process. The first E-Roadster “D” and E-Roadster “S” are slated to be released to customers by mid summer 2019.   As a result of this shift in focus, Intermeccanica is no longer accepting commissions for I.C. products so that we can direct all our energies to this new and exciting endeavour.  As for all of you traditional Intermeccanica owners, my staff and I are committed to continue to support your Intermeccanica products with the parts and service you expect and deserve. I am expecting the last Intermeccanica I.C. product to ship by fall of this year this will be just about the 600th Intermeccanica built in Canada. I am also thrilled to report that this year is Intermeccanica’s 60th anniversary and as per tradition we will be celebrating this event with an Intermeccanica tour on the weekend of June 21 -23 in beautiful British Columbia wine country in our Okanagan valley, based out of the village of Oliver BC.  My Reisner family organizing committee is putting the final touches on the itinerary for this event and will have further details out along with registration details in the coming days.  If you are interested in joining us, we still have a few spots available as does our host hotel.  For more information please contact Robert at intermeccanica@telus.net.      2018 was a very busy year for me and Intermeccanica and 2019 is shaping up to be the same. Bringing our innovative SOLO from design to prototype and on to mass production has been the experience of a lifetime for me and I could not have done this without the support of the Meccanica executive and engineering teams.  I also realize that this process has taken its toll on current Intermeccanica customers whose projects were delayed by my heavy travel schedule. My dedicated Intermeccanica staff and the new staff at Meccanica deserve recognition for picking up the Intermeccanica ball and running with it in my absence.  Lastly, I could not have done and could not continue doing what needs to be done without the support of my wife Holly and my kids Ivy, June and Ben and the Intermeccanica powerhouse that is my mother Paula Reisner! I thank you all for your enthusiasm, support and interest in all things Intermeccanica.   Henry Reisner

Oh man!  Can any car guy not give an involuntary shudder at the last picture in the above newsletter?  I assume Photoshop can't be blamed for that horror show.

chines1 posted:

@Meade you have an OBD-II diagnostics port, which can be scanned with a common code reader.  Most auto parts stores have these and let you use them for free.  You will always have a secondary o2 code and a data link code, but note all of the codes and I can reference exactly what they are.
4500RPM is the cutoff point that the motor defaults to if you do not have a speed signal, so a broken or disconnected speedo cabe, a slipping dust cap or a failed speed sensor will cause this.  There are other faults that will cause an early rev limit, but they are usually down around 3500RPM, such as a bad VVT solenoid or an errant throttle pedal signal.  Normal redline and hard cutout for the motor is 6800RPM, just FYI

My MAF sensor I believe was cutting in/out or missing/ bucking action somewhere around 4K.

We cleaned it and the K&N and we ODB linked it to a laptop and went for a drive and found the MAF was the culprit.  

We proved it as it disappeared with the MAF installed. 

 

P.S. The K&N one time was dirty as well as the MAF and causing it to have this symptom.  I think this should be cleaned with each oil change IMO.

Actually, things may have changed at Intermeccanica since then.  My source in British Columbia still insists that they may continue with the good old internal combustion builds.

We will see...

 

Jim Kelly posted:

Oh man!  Can any car guy not give an involuntary shudder at the last picture in the above newsletter?  I assume Photoshop can't be blamed for that horror show.

Jim.  If you actually see one in person, they aren't all that bad.  That is a terrible angle shot.

I had the opportunity to sit in one last time I was out there, and I really think it would be a hoot to drive one.  Like being in a single seater fighter plane.  Assuming of course, you live in a city and commute.  If I had one, I would paint it in camouflage, and put RCAF roundels on it...  

I can't see wending my way along a nice, curvy country road in one, but maybe someone else will.

@Stan Galat wrote- "

Not so fast, Hombre. No more ICE Intermeccanicas, as per the May 2019 newsletter.

"I am expecting the last Intermeccanica I.C. product to ship by fall of this year"

That was May of 2019, so no more 911 (or any other ICE) powered cars from Intermeccanica."

There has been a change in management (and policy) at IM, Stan, and I mentioned this in another thread before Christmas. What I reported was after a conversation with Henry in November, and mentioned it with his blessing. At the time they were figuring out how to make the announcement.

PS- I repeat- any one lamenting IM's not building IC powered Speedsters and Roadsters any more and thinking seriously of an IM build, call IM and talk to Henry.

IaM-Ray posted:

My MAF sensor I believe was cutting in/out or missing/ bucking action somewhere around 4K.

We cleaned it and the K&N and we ODB linked it to a laptop and went for a drive and found the MAF was the culprit.  

We proved it as it disappeared with the MAF installed. 

 

P.S. The K&N one time was dirty as well as the MAF and causing it to have this symptom.  I think this should be cleaned with each oil change IMO.

Meanwhile...

Make sure you don't over oil the K&N filter on a MAF equipped engine.  The extra oil mists the MAF sensor wire and cruds it up quickly.  I discovered this the hard way, and found it mentioned heavily in forums on my old Turbo Volvo V70 and my current MINI Clubman S.  Some were hopping up and down on their hats yelling, "NEVER use a K&N on this car!" But I found that just being reasonable with the oiling made it all fine. Adding a quick spray with MAF cleaner at every oil change sounds like a good plan.

ALB posted:

@Stan Galat wrote- "

Not so fast, Hombre. No more ICE Intermeccanicas, as per the May 2019 newsletter.

"I am expecting the last Intermeccanica I.C. product to ship by fall of this year"

That was May of 2019, so no more 911 (or any other ICE) powered cars from Intermeccanica."

There has been a change in management (and policy) at IM, Stan, and I mentioned this in another thread before Christmas. What I reported was after a conversation with Henry in November, and mentioned it with his blessing. At the time they were figuring out how to make the announcement.

PS- I repeat- any one lamenting IM's not building IC powered Speedsters and Roadsters any more and thinking seriously of an IM build, call IM and talk to Henry.

Well, that would be excellent.

I must have missed the thread. Can you link me to it?