Suby tranny

AWD isn't the big issue - it's the 5 speeds in reverse! Replacement reversed R&P kits are available from Australia but they are costly ($2200 AUD or $2085 USD plus shipping for complete kit).  Kits for the automatic and the 6 speed aren't even available. See http://www.subarugears.com/

 

oouch $$!

So it's not as simple as merely flopping the existing R/P?

 

But then, there's always the possibility of a mid-engine configuration like John Eastman's!

No. The Subaru pinion is offset from the center axis of the ring gear (aka hypoid gears). If you flip the diff, the gears no longer mesh, hence the need for the custom manufactured R&P.

 

The AWD is eliminated by a splined socket the fits over the rear output shaft to lock it in place. If they didn't do this the rear shaft would just spin under power and the front axles wouldn't move.

Coolride sells a modified Subie tranny and needed brackets/hardware for $5200 or $5300.

Last time I spoke with Jake about this he was working on being (or had recently become) the US rep for Subaru Gears (the AU maker of these parts)

Or $900 to build your late model VW 4 speed to spec. and hang the engine off the ass end as Doc Ferdie intended. 

 

Or, $900 to build an earlier year VW 4-speed to spec, flop the R&P and make a home-brewed middy. 

 

But, yeah, that extra overdrive gear is only $4,300. Well worth it, I'm sure, to get that highway cruising RPM down in the 2000 range instead of the deafening 2500 rpm you'd experience with the 3.44s and the .89 4th gear.

 

What? You say the VW tranny can be made with a .82 4th gear? Uh...nevermind.

Ed..did you ever come to any conclusion of what ratio you'd prefer with the Soob install? Wouldn't a stock gearset with the 3.44 r&p put things about right ? I haven't gone into the details yet but might get a redone and heavier built tranny for my next engine.

And there are even lower aftermarket 4th gears available; not that most of us could actually use them... Al

Dave: Going with the 3.44 and a .93 4th. That'll give me 70 mph at 3000 rpm, instead of my current 60 mph at 3000. The existing .89 gear in my tranny would've given me 75 mph at 3000 rpm, or a theoretical top speed of about 150 mph (realistically, only about 120 if the car can get to its torque peak). Either one is pretty much inconceivable given the shape of my fenders. 

 

 

 

Have not yet heard from the Bully Clutch guys. emailed them weeks ago... Time to get that clutch disc made and then I'm pretty much in business.

 

BTW, you just used aluminized exhaust pipe to carry your coolant to the radiator? 

 

Those clutch lads were pretty quick for me....like a day or so. Did you place an order, make an inquiry, check for pricing or what?

 

My coolant tubes were 1 1/2" aluminum tubing that you see in hang glider frames. A buddy down the row had plenty left over and donated what I needed.

 

That engine sure looks familiar. It's even got the port on the camshaft end that you can stick a Ford escort dizzy into if you get desperate. :-)

Boy, putting a dizzy there would make plug changes mucho fun-o. I got the EDIS stuff and a wheel, Megajolt is coming in the mail.

 

I emailed the Bully guys last month asking for the same clutch they made for you. I think I got a phone number for them so I'll just ring them up.

 

So your coolant runs through pure aluminum then...good to know.

Ed, I've got my clutch info nearby if you need details, p/n date of purchase, customer number etc.

Ed wrote: "So your coolant runs through pure aluminum then...good to know."

 

Why not?  Look how many aluminum radiators are out there.....

 

On an unrelated note, buying a used suby tranny for $800 and then putting $6 grand worth of custom gearing into it just blows me away.  For that matter, even $2,500 for the flipped R&P setup just amazes me, but then, look how small the market must be.

 

All this just shows that Steve Lawing has the right idea of putting the entire front-based Subaru drive train in the back seat as if it's in the front.   Wicked simple, wicked cheap and.......it works.

You're forgetting the time/cost/effort for the custom chassis & bodywork needed for a mid-engine setup.

Every time somebody types "Suby Tranny" I get a disturbing image in my head.  Please stop.

Damned--coffee outof my nose. Cracked me up Tom!

I feel your pain, Tom...but we could change it to Soob Gbox and get criticized for that too !  There must be a better way......;-)

If a ready-to-go Subaru trans. to hang a rear engine on costs for over 5 grand...

And a r/p for their 5 speed alone costs over 2 thousand...then it makes sense to 'mid-engine' the Subaru engine and trans just the way it comes... as Steve Lawing does (who uses the back seat anyway?)

 

And Justin is right in that there has to be a whopping fabrication expense to retrofit a mid-engine conversion...BUT somebody, somewhere, realizes that there's enough wacko replica owners who'd jump at a mid-engine bolt-in INSTALATION KIT...and there's someone like Kevin Zagar who is probably engineering one right now!!!

 

Wait and see 'cause there's certainly a market for it!

Did anyone take a good look at John Eastman's mid-engine SAS roadster at Carlisle? He's cruising with a tinker free 170hp mated to a tinker free 5 speed just the way Japanese engineering designed it.

 

Greatly improved weight distribution / body warming heat / great gas mileage...he even has air conditioning! Eastman has a kick-ass, enviable, eye catching, all weather daily driver that doesn't have to be hibernated for the Winter. Just turn the key and cruise anywhere...any time!

 

e-Bay is cluttered with inexpensive Japanese-quality transplant candidates...so tell me that a mid-engine bolt in installation kit isn't on someone's drawing board?  

The mid engine set up with a coupe in that config is the way to go.  SAS's uses a lot of the Subaru, which makes total sense.  The fun part with these Subi's is the options of forced induction and playing with exhaust notes.  Chassis are going to need to be improved for swaps, that's for sure.

Mid-engine just kills any thought of using an easy to register VW pan.  Probably just as well as they are getting scarce 40 years after last US model spec were available.

 

...and that's why Mexico is doing such a good business exporting their VW pans

Sooby tranny Sooby tranny Sooby tranny Sooby tranny Sooby let me say it once again...!

Yer an evil man, Ed.  I like that 

so cant you just flip the subie trannie??/ why not??? If I had one I would.common to flip trans over for other rotation.there are even kit cars that use porsche trans that do it. as for the offset ring gear requiring a new set I would think a carrier/ring gear spacer would be simpler than the gear set,but there may not be room in the case for it.or it may need to go the other way.dono never been in a subie trannie. yes you would have to drill another hole and plug the exzisting one if you just fliped the tranny.

You have to "plug a hole and drill another one after you flip the tranny."  It just keeps getting worse.

  

Well first, that'd move the axles upwards about a foot. That'll require new axles and CV's without requiring the oil pan to drag on the ground. And I'm not sure they make CV's with high enough output angles to do it. You'll starve the diff and output bearings of oil without some sort of additional pump and oiling system. If not, you'd have to run such a high oil level it'd cause a lot of drag. New filler/drain/vent and internal drain passages will need to be fabricated. You'll need a custom made adapter plate to bolt the trans back up to the motor since the mounting holes aren't symmetric, which will necessitate a custom made flywheel. Shift pattern would be reversed requiring fabricating a new external linkage to fix. And you'd still need the parts to lock out the AWD.

 so it's pretty simple. thats what I thought.

I'm running this final drive combination now. It works for me, but I've got a pretty stout 2276. If you can get this built for $900, I'll take 10 of them. Erco nicked me for over $300 each for the (new) 3rd and 4th gears. There's nothing cheap about ACVW stuff any more.

 

I compensated for the lack of the extra 5th gear by essentially giving up the "digger" first, since drag racing is not what I'm about. The spread is reasonably tight, but the combination requires a pretty torquey motor. A .89/3.88 is pretty close to perfect unless you plan on "horizon chasing" long-haul-trucker drives. I do. I made the decision somewhere in Nevada on my way to California last fall.

 

I called Bully Clutches, and got a quote based on David's recommendations. $95 takes you all the way.

Thanks Carl.  As a matter of fact I'm on the way out the door in a few minutes to do a few errands and meet friends for coffee.  42° out, mostly overcast but I shouldn't have to have much more than 1/4 heat this morning.  I'll leave the top up though.

HEAT!!!......i hate you guys....

Stan- What are you running for gears?

Al, do you have no heat or just normal lousy heat from heater boxes.  If the latter is true, I have an easy solution for you.

Al, do you have no heat or just normal lousy heat from heater boxes.  If the latter is true, I have an easy solution for you.

 

Is it to re-route the ductwork from the heater boxes?  Is it bigger than a breadbox?

Ted, I asked Carey last winter to route the heat directly to the rear bulkheads next to the seats.  I sacrificed defrost with this, but man does it put out heat now!  It warms up faster than my water-cooled DD's.  I only use the heat in and out of storage each year and on long trips with early start times.  I'm a top down, nice weather driver most of the time, but when I need heat, I really need it.  I also hedged with heated seats, but find these most useful with the top down when there's some chill in the air (like coming home in the evening from somewhere).  I keep a chamois sponge in the car and used Rainex fog treatment to cover defrost and I'm good to go.

Given the strength (or lack thereof) of the defrost, you didn't sacrifice much.

Stan...could you pls. just confirm what I think you said above about your gear

arrangement. I asked Ed and he said he's going with  3.80, 2.06, 1.26. then .93  (instead of .89) and a 3.44 r &p. Is that what you are currently running ? Thanks.