Subytub has arrived

I took a drive with Steve after delivery. I already have bug splatters to clean off. You can sure hear it coming. Let the good times roll.
John H.

It sure looks nice...How does it feel? You know, the power and handling stuff. More pics, more details, dude.

Very nice John, more details!!

Dick

Paul, Dick and all, I need more drive time to be able to articulate my impressions accurately. Hopefully, over the next week or two, that will happen. Today is a total rain out, which you know if you are watching the national weather map. I think it's going to be great.
John H.

wierd, the pedals go up!

sure it makes vacuuming the rugs easier, but it sure does look funny.

r

Awright!!! Looks great John! Congrats!

John...it looks beautiful. Can you talk about the details on the car? Often times it's the little points that really make things sweet! Anything special you can address would be great. Have fun!!!

Great news, John. Will be looking for the longer term report on fit, finish and performance. I like the new pedals! You are indeed a trend setter. Steve and his folks at SAW are quite good.

Am I the only one with enough Balls to ask what this fine machine will cost when its all wrung out..........I know I'm not the only one who is interested in what a "state of the art" speedster that is not
an IM costs........

First thing I did when I got my car was find a 1/43 scale speedster and detail it for the desk. I found this on EBAY and it is a very unusual piece! It looks to be a Red early Cabriolet! If I found one with a speedster like it, Id buy it quick.

Your new car looks great John, "happy motering!"

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=223&item=6908744519&
rd=1

Vince, Steve lists his base prices on his website for the Speedster, Flared Speedster (C), and Cabriolet. I have something in excess of three large in extras which does not include the 2.5L engine which I elected to bypass. The car is exciting enough for this cowboy. I must be getting old.
jph

Where to begin. I drove the prototype Speedster

John,
I want to see that beauty up close! Congratulations! I love it and I love it for you... what a cool assed move.. first of it's kind on any block! I am anxious to hear your feedback, and to see it firsthand!

Highway 7.... Arkansas (23s even better) listed as a top 10 drive by every list out there... I just read your mail and shared it with Gayla... we may have an idea for this Fall. Will write back in a.m.

Jim

Congrats! J2Bolts. Long time acomin'! She looks great. Is that a tilt column I see? Can't wait to see her. Crap! Carlisle is so far off!
Godd luck with her! Hopefully us right coasters will do another wine tour
soon.

BD

Bill, in the FWIW department, I've decided the Subytub is a "him." First off name is "red man" like the chewing tobacco, but I'll come up with something better. Algebra insists that I don't cross genders with the new wheels. Silly, I know, but when you are a troll, you do things this way.
John H.
ps. yes, tilt column

Okay John, if you're going to test your stereo use the Diane Schuur 'Collection' CD. Any Diane Schuur fans out there?
John, you've just bought the 'future' of 356 replicas. I love IMs, but like all other replicas IMs are saddled with that crappy, air cooled motor. I don't care what George B. or anyone says....VW air cooled motors suck.
John, sometime, in the near future, I'd like to drive down and go for a ride in your new, red Subie. By the way, I'll be driving down in my new convertible...but it's not a speedster, not a replica and not even close to a Porsche.
Ron

Ron, yes I know who Diane Schuur is, and I had not thought about her in a while. Perhaps that means I'm not a fan, but I have enjoyed her music in the past. Come on down in your "um um" convertible, and we will go for a drive and have a look at the Smokies. Just give me a little warning so I can chase the skunks and snakes out of the spare bedroom. BTW, I love VW engines and if I had a spare garage stall, I would put a 550 Spyder or 718 RSK replica in it with a big honkin' air cooled fire breather in her; I know, talks cheap. Now if I sold my F-150 and had stuff delivered.......who do I sound like now???
John H.

John that's a damn nice tub you got there. I like everything I see. And it sounds like you do too. And that is what natters most my friend. Enjoy your new toy.
MRDS.

Congratulations John. Car looks great. Any idea how many more tubs Steve has in the pipeline? If I could convince the wife, I would like to get an outlaw look speedster.

John,

Congrats. Long time coming but no doubt worth the wait.

When Steve forwarded some photos of his prototype he mentioned he was still working out where he would put the radiator. Is it still in the left rear near the axle? Seemed like a good location to me but a season of summertime driving will confirm.

What I especially like is the mid-engine placement. IM moved their engine location forward a few inches -- the SAW car basically places the Suby engine under the rear seat area which is dramatic but it makes sense in the handling department. I wonder what your front to rear bias is, I bet its darn close to neutral.

Looking forward to your observations as you rack up more miles.

Thanks one and all. George, Steve lists two additional customer's cars on his website and I don't know how many more that there may be beyond that. Erik, I'll have to stick my nose into the engine bay to verify where the radiator wound up, but it's probably where you said. The car is headed for it's first car gathering this afternoon in Cleveland, Tn. It will be interesting to see the reactions from my fellow club members and the general car-loving public. I'll report back later. I'm going to be traveling to Connecticut in August ( in the minivan :-( ) and dropping the red man off at SAW for Steve to check over, oil change and take care of any "issues" which may have developed. Since this is his first customer field test vehicle, he feels a little provincial; he was especially pleased that his first buyer was a local guy.
John H.
ps. Weight bias is about 46/54, but this has not been confirmed on the finished car.

John.....Dale mentioned a model car and that you could buy one on ebay.....Don't....I already bought one for you, I just haven't had the time to send it. It looks practically identical and is a one of a kind because I took one that had the black interior with little people in it and put it in a torch red cabriolet with the same paint as the rims you have.....your gonna love it. I'll send it this week I promise.

Hey John!
Good luck with the car it looks really great! Nice to see things finally clicked!
Jerry

John,

More pictures would be great. Underside, engine, exhaust, gas tank, under the dash, whatever you can give us. This is really neat, and I'm glad it all come together for you.

Steve, thanks, the check's in the mail. Hey Jerry, thanks and sorry I didn't get to Carlisle to finally meet you. Stan, I'll be out with the camera in the next few days if I get a break from house cleaning and yard work. Mamma bear is coming home, so the place has to look less like a "batchin' it pad."

The Cleveland car gathering was mostly street rods and muscle cars. someone in the club said they saw two MGB's, one with the 350 V8 stuffed in it, but I didn't see them. I did see a 356B Roadster, an original, but the owner must have been out rubber nekkin' like I was. Not spectacular, but a nice driver.
John H

Hey John... Looks v-e-e-e-r-r-r-y-y-y-y-y interstingk!
You are becoming a master of the tease, a drama-master wit the photos here and there... Un how & where do you check und der oiling dipper-stick? Vot be hiding Mr. Motor in der back-seater? Lifting der decklid reveals vot, hmmm?

Ya, I'm with Paul. What's in the back? Is the back air vent just a dummy vent?
Ron

I think it is a modest trunk under the engine lid.

Re access to the engine, according to Steve its a snap to R & R the engine via an engine hoist, though I reckon to get the Suby out from a coupe it would have to be dropped down rather than lifted...

Erik, I think that the coupe would require some re-engineering of the frame in order to drop the engine. Paul and Ron, Access to the engine was originally envisioned as a lift off cover, but morphed into a smaller hinged cover to reveal the engine. During the development, I pointed out to Steve a potential problem when on a trip when there will likely be lots of "stuff" resting on the engine cover. He came up with another smaller door to get to the dipstick. The radiator fill is in the rear trunk.
John H.

Just curious, but is the reason that the engine is mid-ship is because the engine normally (in a Subaru) sits slightly ahead of the axle centerline? If that's so, couldn't it be mounted more traditionally in the rear if the differential ring and pinion were flipped and push the engine to the back? I know this presents other engineering problems like shift linkage, but could it be done?

gn

Based on my past correspondence with Steve on engine configuration, the mid-engine placement was not just because it turned out that way. It was selected purposely to eliminate the historic unpredictable tail heavy/light front end handling characteristics of short wheelbase rear engine cars. Other available engine/trans axle choices were not used because they did not maximize the mid-engine, low center-of-gravity feature. The short wheelbase VW Speedsters with their rear bias are manageable when the horsepower stays in the 50-60 range and perhaps slightly higher. The light front end exacerbates braking and steering control issues on wet or loose-surface road conditions and the heavy rear encourages over-steer on turns. The Suby Speedster comes standard with 137 hp, which could quickly over-power a typical VW-style rear engine platform. Since he also offers 165 hp and possibly the 217-250+hp Turbo package, the handling conditions would become critical. His decision to offer a Speedster was based on the concept of offering a more powerful modern driveline and suspension that eliminated rear engine-type handling and braking concerns. Mid engine was the only logical answer.

I suppose that when one considers that no automobile manufacturer in the world now produces a modern rear engine car. The venerable much longer wheelbase 911 Porsche has spent 40 years taming their rear engine characteristics with advances such as AWD and high tech individual wheel power application among other scientific achievements tends to support the SAW decision.

IM has acknowledged the moving of their engine/transaxle package forward 3 inches, as in my 1998 IM. While this movement has improved handling on the IM, it certainly has not achieved the standards and weight bias advantages of mid-engine configurations.

John
I know the people at the 4th of July parade will be grateful that you got your car. No sandwich boards!
ed

But Ed, I look pretty good in sandwich boards. I certanly would have been the talk of the town, all the way to the lock up.

As Steve is the only manufacturer to pay good bucks to advertise at this site I personally don't think it would inappropriate for him to offer his own comments about the car and discuss some of its features and why he did things the way he did. Anyone object? Offering input isn't the same as making a sales pitch.

I am sold on the mid-engine placement. Who uses the rear seat anyway other than a bag or groceries from time to time? Curious about access for day-to-day normal engine servicing, also about the radiator placement and how it handles summer city driving. Also curious about its finished weight.

Erik, it's up to Steve whether or not he will choose to comment publicly on this forum. His ad certainly gives him a lot of visibility, but most of the vendors don't comment on this site and most of the ones that did have dropped out of sight. I believe it can be counterproductive to do this. Certainly, in addition to what I learn from my own experiences, some of the knowledge Steve has imputed to me will be shared, but understandably limited by my own poor abilities.

Last night, I took a little drive and chose the last stretch on a country back road which has some neat twisties. While I make no claim to being a great driver, I will say that the handling was confidence inspiring, much better than my speedster. I suspect the combination of frame and suspension, tires and engine placement were all factors in producing a very secure feeling in the turns. There was no noticeable body roll and the grip was sensational.

As far as the rear seat, perhaps Jim Bob would miss the space for piling his "honeys" and Theron in for one of his dream rides.

As far as engine access, there is a small door for checking the engine oil, a larger hinged cover for more access and a removable panel when you want to let it all hang out, so to speak. The radiator is placed in the right hand side wheel well and on the inside of the splash shield; it appears to be a safe location. Since the temperatures I have been driving in were only in the 80's, I will have to wait to comment on super hot city driving, but I do not expect there to be a problem. The fan runs all the time in slow speed when the switch is on and speeds up on demand if the temperature rises above a preset level.

As far as weight and bias go, I do not know. It is about 1800#, but that is yet to be confirmed. I hope Steve will get a chance to do a gross weight and balance check when he has the car in August.
John boy

My point is as a sponsor of this site Steve offering comments is not objectionable to me. His approach is revolutionary which I find interesting. (Re the SAW web site, it isn't updated frequently, now he has a sold car, before it was a prototype.)

If another manufacturer isn't a paid sponsor of the site that could be seen as tacky. As they say around here dance with the one you brung.

I recommended to Henry Reisner several years ago that he not comment on these forums. I have also made a similar recommendation to Steve Lawing on the same subject. If all of our discussions went as this thread, it probably would not be a problem. We have all seem this forum used to zap assemblers. Each assembler has his supporters and detractors. Actually, I think Steve will be more forthcoming on his website, which is one of the more comprehensive websites on the Internet. I think now that Steve has in fact arrived at a configuration that pleases him, he can be more forthcoming and satisfy all of the inquiries rather than address often recurring questions one at a time on the forum.

I accept your view Charles but it still seems to me a web site is static, quesitons are responded to quickly but it is one person at a time.

The question remains what value does a manufacturer receive with paying bucks to have a link on this page? Seems to me if Steve answers questions without plugging his product that is fair.

Henry, John & Kirk are free to advertise here. They don't. Steve does. I would love to read questions and answers here.

Hey John........we want pictures more pictures of every detail!!!!