Does a Super Beatle have a pan and can it be used for a speedster? It has a rack and pinon steering which I looking for. Darryll
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Does a Super Beatle have a pan and can it be used for a speedster? It has a rack and pinon steering which I looking for. Darryll
Daryll:
Yes, it has rack and pinion steering, but it also has McPherson Strut front suspension which doesn't fit under the fenderline of the front of a Speedster. If you wish to use a Super-Beetle pan on your Speedster, the entire front end of the pan must be replaced, including the pan headset (a large metal stamping that holds the McPherson Struts together) and that R&P steering you want.
In this process, the headset is cut away from the pan by separating a LOT of spot welds, then it is replaced by an earlier front end, either salvaged or new: headset, torsion tube (beam) torsion bars, trailing arms and all the rest of the front suspension (it's usually easier to buy a completely assembled beam with all the suspension bits already together). The headset must be re-assembled and welded with great care to insure that everything is completely straight and square to the pan - this is NOT an easy task.
This all sounds like a big deal and it is........not a lot of us choose to tackle this level of rebuild.
Instead, we get the rear-end benefits of a Super-beetle by finding a 1969 - 1972 beamed front end car and use that. If you REALLY want the rack-and-pinion steering, it is a LOT easier to add the rack assembly out of something else (a Subaru or Rabbit come to mind, or see what George Brown used in his conversion), rather than try to use a Super-Beetle pan. A beam front conversion to R&P might take a day to fabricate, while a conversion from Super-Beetle to Beam front end might take a week to a month, depending on available time.
Gordon
Yes, it has rack and pinion steering, but it also has McPherson Strut front suspension which doesn't fit under the fenderline of the front of a Speedster. If you wish to use a Super-Beetle pan on your Speedster, the entire front end of the pan must be replaced, including the pan headset (a large metal stamping that holds the McPherson Struts together) and that R&P steering you want.
In this process, the headset is cut away from the pan by separating a LOT of spot welds, then it is replaced by an earlier front end, either salvaged or new: headset, torsion tube (beam) torsion bars, trailing arms and all the rest of the front suspension (it's usually easier to buy a completely assembled beam with all the suspension bits already together). The headset must be re-assembled and welded with great care to insure that everything is completely straight and square to the pan - this is NOT an easy task.
This all sounds like a big deal and it is........not a lot of us choose to tackle this level of rebuild.
Instead, we get the rear-end benefits of a Super-beetle by finding a 1969 - 1972 beamed front end car and use that. If you REALLY want the rack-and-pinion steering, it is a LOT easier to add the rack assembly out of something else (a Subaru or Rabbit come to mind, or see what George Brown used in his conversion), rather than try to use a Super-Beetle pan. A beam front conversion to R&P might take a day to fabricate, while a conversion from Super-Beetle to Beam front end might take a week to a month, depending on available time.
Gordon
The super beatles that I have seen have a steering box with equal length tie rods but I live in a foreign land and we may never have gotten the ones with racks.
Has anyone converted a pan car to a rack? The front tunnel makes the rack placement difficult. All the cars I have seen them on have been tube frame IMs.
Has anyone converted a pan car to a rack? The front tunnel makes the rack placement difficult. All the cars I have seen them on have been tube frame IMs.
Bruce,
I did a Super Beetle to Regular Beetle frame head switch once and that was enough. It's not worth the trouble and time needed to do the alteration correctly, plus you really need acess to a frame table as I did.
Rack, almost impossible to retrofit with the tunnel/hump extending into the frame head and axle beam.
I had a race car builder friend of mine look at the job and we concluded that it would be easier to go with a tube chassis and incorporate the R&P into that type of chassis.
I did a Super Beetle to Regular Beetle frame head switch once and that was enough. It's not worth the trouble and time needed to do the alteration correctly, plus you really need acess to a frame table as I did.
Rack, almost impossible to retrofit with the tunnel/hump extending into the frame head and axle beam.
I had a race car builder friend of mine look at the job and we concluded that it would be easier to go with a tube chassis and incorporate the R&P into that type of chassis.
Alan wrote: "Rack, almost impossible to retrofit with the tunnel/hump extending into the frame head and axle beam."
Sounds like the kind of challenge I always tend to take on (and regret, when I get about halfway through).
Sounds like the kind of challenge I always tend to take on (and regret, when I get about halfway through).
Some of the anticipated problems would be securing a pan hard bar to the front suspension, clearence issues for the rack, bump steer problems (wonder how many newbies know what bump steer is?) and a whole lot of other geometry to make everything go straight. The exsisting 65 year old engineering still isn't such a bad ting as we still utlize it with a little tweeking here and there.
Since I don't have the tunnel extending up to the beams, could I fit a rack and pinion in there?
Whadda ya think?
Jerome
Whadda ya think?
Jerome
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Go for it.....just find a non-power-steering R&P unit and fab up a mount.
Gentlemen, I've been away for awhile, but I really appreciate the input! Darryll
Pretty soon, Darryll, you'll be on here three times a day like a lot of us!
Jerome,
Yes it can be done. Henry put a rack and pinion from a VW Passat on my IM when he built it. I think that he uses the VW Golf rack now because it is smaller. He uses the power steering rack with out the motor and fills the hose with fluid and connects the two ends. Works great!
Karl
Yes it can be done. Henry put a rack and pinion from a VW Passat on my IM when he built it. I think that he uses the VW Golf rack now because it is smaller. He uses the power steering rack with out the motor and fills the hose with fluid and connects the two ends. Works great!
Karl
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Jerome,
A VW sand rail rack may just fit in the area you have ...try looking for a rack on different VW sand rail sites they are availabe centered and off set.
The it's just a case figuring a way to secure the rack and making the tie rods to length.
A VW sand rail rack may just fit in the area you have ...try looking for a rack on different VW sand rail sites they are availabe centered and off set.
The it's just a case figuring a way to secure the rack and making the tie rods to length.
Jerome:
Both Kymcovw.co and Janmar have carried those sand buggie R&P units in the past......check out their web sites, or thumb through Hot VW's and VW Trends for others.
gn
Both Kymcovw.co and Janmar have carried those sand buggie R&P units in the past......check out their web sites, or thumb through Hot VW's and VW Trends for others.
gn
Sounds like it could be a fun project. I'll add rack and pinion steering to my list of future winter projects.
This winter: Insulate, drywall and heat the garage.
Jerome
This winter: Insulate, drywall and heat the garage.
Jerome