Supercharger fits

Cool find! Not just any supercharger. That's a "Porsche" supercharger.

Judson made a supercharger for VWs in the 1950s - 1970s.   Here is an article about them from our friends at the Hagerty Magazine:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/...rger-hot-rod-beetle/

I think even JC Whitney sold them back then.

We’re you at the colorado bug in today.

@Carrozzino posted:

We’re you at the colorado bug in today.

No I saw the online post .. I'm chill'n in West Virginia

@TheMayoMachine Show is the turbo will you?!!!!

Nice kit. My mind immediately went to water/methanol injection and the certainty that one of my Weber ITB throttle bodies would fit perfectly.

Must look away. Maybe there's some pictures of puppies or kittens somewhere on the internet.

@Michael Pickett posted:

My mind immediately went to water/methanol injection and the certainty that one of my Weber ITB throttle bodies would fit perfectly.

Must look away. Maybe there's some pictures of puppies or kittens somewhere on the internet.

I hear that the problem is the size of the blower. Mario Vellota has been playing around with those AMR500 blowers, and you never see them on anything bigger than a 1914. Their displacement doesn't seem to be suited to anything bigger than a 1776. He's struggled keeping the whole thing cool enough, regardless (and he lives in the Seattle area).

But if a guy ALREADY HAD a nice 1776, and some experience with methanol/water injection, and the tuning expertise with EFI/crank-fire - I think a guy like that could make this thing work. It would be a stupid-cool way to add a heavy dose of absurdity to the clown-car equation, and I happen to think that's exactly what the hobby needs a bit more of.

Who wouldn't want a blower on their lawn mower engine?

Communists. That's who.

The great part is - I just happen to know just such a guy who ISN'T a communist, and who has (already in his possession) just such an engine. Imagine the co-inky-dink! I think he's just some cylinder shims away from being at the right compression too. I would think such a guy (with time on his hands as well) might just take this thing to a completely different level.

Leave the kittens and puppies to the little girls. Show me how this is done, Captain Boost.

Do it for all of us who lack the know-how - for the weenies, the weak of will, the thin of wallet. Do it for the children, for the free world. Do it for America, or 'MURICA, or whatever it takes to push you over to the edge...

but just do it. For the love of all that's good, please do it.

Ohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohpleaseohplease.

@Stan Galat, you are going to love this.  Blower from a Mini Cooper on a Cushman Golfster 2 cylinder aircooled motor. A buddy built this, it is insane!

When I have idle time my amateur engineering mind tends to go into the What If mode. With that said, I was thunk'n  if I were to find the right Meyers Manx Tow'd buggy a simple 1776 with 7:1 compression and since that engine would be sitting out in the breeze with no air restrictions it might just run cool that way. Certainly, cheap enough to do & there's plenty of room, perhaps this winter and name it................... "Ciller Kart II"

Per Captain Boost: 61-78 side draft style supercharger install on Herbie clone.... - YouTube

This is a  photo of a Tow'd

@Stan Galat, Thanks for the accolades, but I had my supercharger fun on our 2000 Miata. We were using the Eaton M62 in our work, and got plenty of ooomph out the engine. The trouble I struggled with was heat (sound familiar?). The company I was testing for liked little water-cooled intercoolers because you didn't end up with a long intake track like you do with air-cooled intercoolers.

I could never get the intake air temps where I wanted them with the water-cooled ones.  I tried several configurations of intercooler, pumps and heat exchangers, but it didn't make me happy (the company was happy enough to keep the water-air setup).

After playing around with water/methanol injectection, I finally bit the bullet and put in a honking-big air-air intercooler. Since it was a supercharger, the throttle lag was tolerable and the intake temps worked out fine (dyno'd 225 hp on the 1800cc Miata engine).

Me fine tuning the Miata during my water/methanol injection phase 20 years ago (see straight pipe from the blower to the intake). Alway use the right tools:

Someone out there needs to blaze a new trail. I'd be glad to guide anyone by sharing tales of my failures and the points where things found their happy spot. True confession: I don't see a way to put both an air conditioning compressor and a blower (much less an intercooler) under the hood of a speedster.

My sense of self-preservation is strong enough not to take the AC away from my lovely wife. There are happy spots and there are happy spots...

all this BOOST stuff is very kewl.....but a bit above my slightly better than average VW skills pay grade which i have not used in a long time...and just more potential for  "MURPHY'S LAW" to rear it's ugly head.... in my VW youth i might have attempted such car tinkering lunacy...but that ship has sailed...i'll just settle for my turn key 180 hp non turbo subaru power...just hop in and go to the beach come home and still have time to Bar B Q    happy motoring!

@LI-Rick posted:

@Stan Galat, you are going to love this.  Blower from a Mini Cooper on a Cushman Golfster 2 cylinder aircooled motor. A buddy built this, it is insane!

Rick, all I've got to say is, "I want to meet your friends".

Stupid-cool.

The 1990 VW G60 Corrado was a 1.8 SOHC with a G-shaped supercharger(and air-to-air intercooler in the LF wheel well). It put out 158hp stock. It was fun but not REALLY quick.

I bought an Autothority Stage2 kit. That consisted of an EPROM chip, a higher-pressure regulator for the fuel rail, and a smaller pulley to spin the G-lader faster. The belt had a spring tensioner so that was easy, the same belt even fit. The regulator on the rail took 5 minutes to swap. Likewise, the EPROM in the ECU took maybe 15 minutes. It might have taken me 2 hours, probably less.

At the same time I swapped the exhaust from the CAT back. I used a Techtonics Tuning SS system, made by Darrle Vittone of EMPI Inch-Pincher fame.

That combo made 220hp. It took the car right up to the livable limit of torque-steer, but not over the un-manageable point.

I remember one test I did, before it took 10.5 seconds to go from 30-80 in 3rd gear. After it took 7.5 seconds, quite an improvement.

I had zero problem keeping it cool, but I did blow the head gasket. The solution was ARP head studs and nuts and a factory gasket. The factory head bolts stretched and weren't up to the task. No problems whatsoever after I did the work. I put 98,000 miles on that car, bought it new. I put the kit on about 2-3 years after I bought it. The warranty was only 2 years/24k.

I'm a fan of superchargers way more than turbos.

28% power improvement for about $1000. That was FUN, and a bargain. I surprised(and spanked) many a Mustang/Camaro back in the day.

To quote Stan, Stupid Cool guys!  I'm lovin' all of it...

Come to think of it, My 3.7cc string trimmer could use a little more oomph, too!

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Come to think of it, My 3.7cc string trimmer could use a little more oomph, too!

If your string trimmer is only 3.7 cc, it really does need more oomph. Most are in the 27-47 cc range.

@DannyP posted:

I'm a fan of superchargers way more than turbos.

The guy who started the 968 forum developed a supercharger kit for the 3.0L 4 in them. Really good job, looked OEM. Even CARB certified them. I’m really bummed I didn’t but one. He sold about 20 before throwing in the towel.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

Judson made a supercharger for VWs in the 1950s - 1970s.   Here is an article about them from our friends at the Hagerty Magazine:

https://www.hagerty.com/media/...rger-hot-rod-beetle/

I think even JC Whitney sold them back then.

My older brother is a pack rat. Some time ago I mentioned Judson superchargers to him and he said he had a Triumph Spitfire version somewhere in his garage. He wasn’t tempted to even look for it when I mentioned that they were going for ~$3K.

I forgot to add in my Corrado post above that factory boost was somewhere around 8 psi.

After my mods it was 17 psi. Monster torque!

I can't stop thinking about this. A thick-wall 1835 with Ponchitos would be perfect for this thing. I'm not sure what cam, but most blower cams aren't that wild - I'd bet a 110 or something similar would work fine. Strap on a 1-1/2" or 1-5/8" header, and let that dog eat.

I'm working on an AMR500 blower right now.  This one got hot and tightened up so it's no good.  Heat is the enemy of this little guy. It has an internal sump and splash lube for the gears. No cooling for the Roots Type compressor vanes except from the air coming in.  This is probably OK but he external "cooling fins" may be inadequate. The unit is in "overdrive" all the time so no wonder it heats up.  My thoughts are this. This little guy needs to be oil cooled more than the little closed sump can provide.

I'm looking for ways to cool it with engine oil that is pressure fed thru drilled passageways to the gears and bearings, then drain down to the sump area and back to the engine via a return line. Still need to do some press-work to push the vanes and gears apart then start looking for areas to drill oil passageways.

Help and suggestions from all you "Wing Nuts" out there are welcome !.......Bruce

I have extensive experience with Supercharging and turbo charging all types of engines, air cooled, and water cooled of many sizes. What I have learned is that Supercharging an air-cooled engine that already has trouble with heat before it is asked to develop 2-3 times more HP than it was designed can be a recipe for disaster. Another issue to overcome is the diminishing return on the work of the Supercharger as the engine and supercharger and intake charge heats up.  As you may know compressing air also heats the air up. As the air or intake charge heats up and the engine is being fed by this super-heated intake charge the amount of Power produced will decline and exponentially increase the engine temps and this goes around and around until detonation occurs and a possible melt down. The type of superchargers used on Type 1 engines have no provision for an intercooler whose job it is to cool the compressed air coming out of the supercharger. Other options include alcohol and water injection which may help a little but not enough and you have to keep filling a bottle with alcohol and water. The engine will have good power from cold start and the power will go down as the IAT temps rise and they will rise. In summary, to use a non-intercooled forced air device on a street driven air-cooled engine will have a very limited improvement on the power of the engine and have a profound and detrimental impact on the life of the little engine. They look cool and the thought of a S/C'ed engine is cool, but the payoff is never what one is hoping for, or we would see more of the little VW engines with the superchargers on them. The turbo engine is more common because you can drive without developing boost unless you want too, and you don't have the paralytic loss of power by the engine having to drive the Supercharger. I have supercharged and turbo charged Type 1 VW engines and Corvair engines, small block Ford engines and Chevy engines and Mecedes AMG engines. The setups with large intercoolers and very well-built engines have performed and worked the best. The feel of the power that you get as the boost increases is addictive. I had a Corvair engine that was running 30lbs of boost via a turbo but had no intercooler. Tons of power at first and less and less power as the engine superheated itself. Good for a drag car not so good for a road coarse racer or a hard driven streetcar. The best setup I have had is in my Crossfire SRT6 which came from the factory with a 3.2L 12 plug aluminum AMG 6-cylinder engine with a twin screw Supercharger that I have setup to be overspun with a larger crank pulley. Extra-large water to air intercooler, larger injectors and a special ECU tune to take the engine from the 12lb boost 350Hp factory tune to the 20lb boost 489 HP tune I currently drive daily. This is the closest thing to having it right that I have owned when it comes to forced induction. Good luck with your endeavor, forced induction is a madness all to itself, if you learn the rules beforehand it may save you some pain in the end.

Jimmy thank you for the detailed synopsis, wonder if a simple bolt on fan forced oil cooled would be enough for cooling the additional generated heat ? This makes me think if it's worth the effort. But I have an idea, let's have Stan do this (business expense write off) and we'll follow his progress :~)

^^^ What Jimmy said! @Jimmy V. ^^^

That may help cool the Supercharger unit itself but still does not address the huge loss of potential power that comes as the intake air temps rise. It would not be unusual for the IAT to rise above 250 degrees on an un-intercooled engine, that is why no factory I know of currently offers a forced induction engine that does not have an inter-cooler of some type. My heavily inter-cooled SRT-6 has IAT's of 150 Deg F. or more when running hard. I have had un-intercooled water-cooled engines and air-cooled engines power drop to hardly feeling the benefit of the supercharger as the intake air temps get above a certain point, but I was still exerting the extra wear and tear to the engine. Resulting lesson, why do it? This is a way to ruin an engine fast. In the best case you will cut the life by 50 -75%.

Intercoolers are the way to get max boost and keep intake temps down. Jimmy knows what he is talking about.

Water or air cooled intercoolers are an absolute but first things first. On disassembly I see that the bearing metal is even black from heat.  I'm surprised that this little pump worked at all !.......Bruce

https://www.speedsterowners.co...led-engine-mods-done

I’m seriously considering putting one of these in my 968.

I emailed the guy that sells the kits.......take it in with a cheek of chew ~

Email sent:

We are talking over on the Speedster group   
www.speedsteowners.com about your blower set ups.  Knowing that the
Supercharged air greatly increases the ambient air temp and w/o an
intercooler how do you avoid engine high temps?

I'm very aware of the heat problem, which is why I said (in my very first paragraph):

@Stan Galat posted:

He's struggled keeping the whole thing cool enough, regardless (and he lives in the Seattle area).

As @Jimmy V. pointed out, forced induction heats the air/fuel mixture - any time you compress any gas it gets hot. As the mixture (charge) heats up, the molecules spread out and the charge becomes less dense (less air and fuel on every intake cycle). It's also feeding a hot mixture to an engine that already struggles with heat.

The kit-seller's response to Alan's query leads me to believe the guy who put the kit together is more interested in the "wow" factor than in actually using the car. Bags of ice on the intake runner sounds like he's not really serious.

The thing I wonder is where the balance point is for a water/methanol injection setup to cool the charge enough to make a difference. It's not smoke and mirrors (supercharged fighter engines used it before and during WW2), but it's not an intercooler either. The latent heat of evaporation picks up a LOT of heat (think of how long it takes to heat up a pan of water 1 deg vs how long it takes to go from a 211 deg liquid to a 213 deg steam). The methanol needs to be in the mix because the boiling point is lower, and therefore the charge can be cooler. I wonder about straight methanol (although guys who know say a mix is better).

This little blower is TINY, and can't develop enough boost for a stroker (which I also mentioned). I'm wondering if boost is held to a modest level (say 6 or 7 psi), and the engine is low compression to start with (8:1?), would water/methanol injection be enough to keep the charge at a decent temperature? Turbo motorcycle guys use them with decent results. Probably not, but I'd love to see somebody who knows what's up give it a try.

Clearly, turbos are the way to go - but the reason the 930s ended up with a cafeteria-tray wing was so that there was a place to put the intercooler. It had a function. I'm all about "outlaws" and all that, but I just can't do it.

I'm not talking about putting one on my car, but I'd like to see somebody who just drives their car to Cars and Coffee and down to the DQ with their grandkids do this.

Jimmy V is the voice of reason. The wow factor is why to do it. That and the price, which appears to be about $200 for the blower itself. I mean, why not, right?

Because you're bolting on a mess o' gremlins. Jimmy is the voice of reason.

Do it for the "wow" factor, not the "performance" factor.

Here's a stock 1600 with this blower on the chassis dyno. After tuning it a bit, it makes about as much as a nicely appointed NA 1915. Maybe not quite. There's another vid showing him breaking into the 15s on the strip, 83 MPH.

Now, a balanced 1835 with Panchitos and some other tweaks? That'd probably be better, yeah. Better than the 1600 with the blower, probably.

Would adding the blower to that engine make it better still? Enough better to make up for the heat and the hassle?

Eh...maybe.

You guys totally get it. It's hard work to put together a system (turbo or blower) that finds a good balance between power, heat, and reliability.

For me, the balance always had to favor reliability since I believe in daily drivers.

Like Stan, I'd get a thrill out of seeing someone figure out and document how a type 1 could be boosted in a speedster reliably AND that delivers enough power to make the effort worthwhile.

Twenty years ago, that would definitely be me, but now I'm also focused on pictures of my grandkids doing their thing.

Ada visiting her bestie in Chicago this week:

Probably not going to do this in the Florida heat.

But why would anybody do things for the "wow" factor?

I guess I'll just never understand that. The wow thing, what's that about? So people can worship the owner at cars and coffee events? Why does anybody care about impressing anyone?

Make your car run well. Make it run smooth. Make it run cool. Impress yourself.

Don't be the "show" man. I'd rather be the "go" man. Every. Single. Time.

To each his own.

(I was going to post a picture of a Speedster from the last VW show I went to, but I guess I deleted it)

Had tartan plaid interior, which was tastefully done. The matching gas tank and engine shroud were a little over the top.

Mercedes Benz vintage has tartan samples on their website to check out the color patterns ,  YES it is Mercedes prices if you buy from them ,

I  would think there are other upholstery supply houses that also have tartan made for automotive use .

For the record I do think the "wow factor" has its place. I love these scoops, for example, even though they will probably not help much on the track....

But a well-done rat rod is at least as interesting to me as a good race car.

More importantly, a C&C—or any kind of car-centered gathering—can have both those things, plus a lot of other interesting rides such as

Race cars have their own "wow" factor. . .

But car culture is a big tent, and I think it should be.

@edsnova posted:

More importantly, a C&C—or any kind of car-centered gathering—can have both those things, plus a lot of other interesting rides such as

But car culture is a big tent, and I think it should be…

Nice Lakester.

I agree. Last C&C I went to the two most interesting cars to me were a pair of Datsun 510 wagons. One survivor and one “Tokyo Drift”ed. Besides my former Powersports teacher’s 72 911S lightweight clone.

Ed, you get me wrong methinks. I have no problem with car shows, cars and coffee, rat rods, weird stuff, or especially doing something COMPLETELY different.

My problem is putting some part(s) on your car to specifically get a "wow factor" reaction, rather than the utility of said part(s). That is done by only one type of person: an attention whore. Don't be that guy.