Sway Bar

I don’t have anything to contribute on the sway bar but I was wondering why you said a camber compensator won’t work on a Rancho tranny.  I have a Rancho tranny with a CB Perf. camber compensator on my car.  I realize that Speedsters and Spyders are very different, but I was wondering what made the tranny and compensator incompatible.

I don't think that the compensator will fit with the heavy duty side covers that are on my tranny.

Carlos......    Double check me on this, but I think we used to use 4140 or 4150 cold drawn steel bar for this.....   Rather than a true 'square end, milled flats (2 or 4) would be preferable.....  Allow .062 radius between flats and the bar......    Old school....  And the compensator didn't fit my Spyder either....

Hope this helps.... 

used to buy ones like those in the 70s and 80s from a company called h and h , today we make um , if needed. bill

 

Carlos G posted:

I don't think that the compensator will fit with the heavy duty side covers that are on my tranny.

I agree there. I'm thinking limit straps but leaning toward zero-roll(a 1 shock formula vee setup with rocker arms and downlinks to the axles). Zero-roll takes care of the positive camber on roll issue.

A bunch of stuff I've read says that the type of steel doesn't particularly matter for an anti-sway bar. In the 70s, when EMPI was good, they made a 5/8" and a 3/4" bar. Now only the 3/4" is available. 

I'm in the process of making a 5/8" bar that actually fits the Spyder frame. After I make it, I'll take it to a local leaf spring place that can heat-treat it for me. I have 3/4" Bug bushings and am planning to sleeve the last 6" of the bar so the bushings will fit snug. I read that the 5/8" is a good compromise for a Bug, should be a bit stiffer on a lighter Spyder. I have the 3/4" now, but it hits the frame on large compression bumps.

On the old car, I had a factory Bug bar(12 or 13mm) and it worked but I needed a bit more resistance to roll.

I like your design, Carlos, but wouldn't it be easier just to weld(1/4" angle iron by about 1 1/2") brackets to either the beam uprights or the tubes that extend forward of the beam?

Welding would be easier if I had access to a decent welder. My stick welder is too crude, and my mig machine, that someone gave me, has no gas and is untested.

Easier still, if I choose the VW attachment method with a custom bent bar.

I do have a 15mm bar from a Subaru that I was thinking of bending to fit, as an experiment.        After bending, is it always necessary to have it heat treated?

When I design something, I always go a few steps too far, then I back up to a realistic stage.

I found this site which has a 5/8" bar that I thought might work. It would cost more money than I was allowing for this project, but it's a thought.

http://1speedway.com/index.php...76&product_id=90

 

Contact Gary schoerder in Burbank ca. Gary makes torsion bars and sway bar set ups.

http://schroedersteering.com

He supplies several NASCAR teams with products

Carlos G posted:

It's raining cats and dogs outside, my wife isn't here to redirect my attention, and it's got me thinking. How hard is it to make an adjustable sway bar for my Spyder.

I have this idea and would like some feedback from those that might know. Here are a couple of drawings that should give one the idea.

I can fabricate the aluminum arm and mounting brackets.

Getting a machine shop to fabricate the sway bar and mill the ends square would be the hardest part. Of course there are a few questions tumbling about in my head.

What kind of steel should be used for the bar?

What size bar should it be with the lever being around 5 1/2" long?

Is it even a good idea to drill 3 holes in a suspension member to attach the bracket? I thought long and hard, and this is the only place that made sense.

Is a sway bar on a Spyder even necessary? and what do you do out back? A camber compensator won't work on a Rancho tranny. I was thinking limit straps. I really don't want to fabricate a Z bar too.

It's still raining out, the car is on blocks waiting on some new wheels. What's a guy to do?

 

That setup is similar to the whiteline products available years ago. The link would attach to the lower shock mount with a L shape bracket.

That's what I was going to do, Anthony.

BTW is that lower shock mount stud, removable so a longer stud can be used?

I don't think it's a requirement to heat treat, but that is the process to make it springy, and I believe that's what we're after.

It's funny, my MiG was a gift as well, somebody ran into it with a car. I pounded the dents out and have 20 years if use on it! Gas and wire, and tips and practice. I took a class through adult education, totally worth it. Now I want a TiG!

A buddy of mine used to weld all the time. We started building custom cruiser bikes. I'd do the fabrication and he'd weld it up. When I moved here, I also took an adult ed welding class. I designed a logo for my instructor's side business and he let me TiG weld all I wanted. I built two more bikes. The College finally gave me a certificate stating that "I've completed my course", and kicked me out. I want a TiG too.

 

That back is wicked cool!

Nice!  Almost, but not quite, a recumbent.

once you visualize the idea, its not that hard. bill
 Bill and Jean Demeter

@Carlos G,

I'm running almost the exact same setup in my Speedster.  Here's what I used:

http://www.colemanracing.com/

21900

Sway Bar-49 Spline-Solid-1 1/4" Turned to 3/4"

$167.95

21913

Sway Bar Arm-Aluminum-1 1/4"-49 Spline-17"

$74.00

21913

Sway Bar Arm-Aluminum-1 1/4"-49 Spline-17"

$74.00

Is that re-bar?

re bar is what they use to re inforce concrete. sway bars are made of stell then hardened. bill
 Bill and Jean Demeter

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DannyP posted:

Is that re-bar?

It is.

Hey, buckwheat, you might want to edit your site preferences so all of us don't have to read through all that crap that gets posted along with your response.

And yes, I do know what re-bar is, and yes, I couldn't believe I was seeing it on a car as an anti-sway bar.

DannyP posted:

I do know what re-bar is, and yes, I couldn't believe I was seeing it on a car as an anti-sway bar.

I know you know. 

Does it work? Cuz they're building a concrete bridge down the road..........

Rebar is usually made from whatever scrap iron is available... Hence, no reliable specs from piece to piece..  Alloy steels have precise formulation that gives each type special properties...  "Cold Rolled" steel  (1018 alloy) is what most people come in contact with day to day..  Its good for most medium strength needs and has fair torsional qualities..

From a $$$ and weight stand point 4140 is a superior steel with higher torsional specs allowing the use of a smaller diameter bar... Tempering allows use of an even smaller diameter bar...

Ultimate weapon sway bars could be made with ETD 150 or Stressproof steel... They would be costlier and more difficult to get into shape, but , when tempered, offer the greatest weight savings...

Call Steel Mart for pricing......   Hope this helps...

Too bad, I was dressed up in my Ninja suit and had my hacksaw in hand ready to harvest some metal.

Yikes!

Stan Galat posted:

DannyP posted:

I do know what re-bar is, and yes, I couldn't believe I was seeing it on a car as an anti-sway bar.

I know you know. 

I know you know I know! LOL! That comment was directed at Bill Demeter/Buckwheat.

Leon, Thanks for your knowledge on steel. I really regret not being able to come down to the NC trip........but on that note I'm walking again and improving. Break is healed but I need to have a ligament repair still. Outlook is great, it will be all fixed by spring!

Tom Murtaugh posted:

@Carlos G,

I'm running almost the exact same setup in my Speedster.  Here's what I used:

http://www.colemanracing.com/

21900

Sway Bar-49 Spline-Solid-1 1/4" Turned to 3/4"

$167.95

21913

Sway Bar Arm-Aluminum-1 1/4"-49 Spline-17"

$74.00

21913

Sway Bar Arm-Aluminum-1 1/4"-49 Spline-17"

$74.00

@Tom Murtaugh please send me some info on this swaybar of yours.

Ted

Carlos, I've been doing a little research. I've come across this:

https://www.welderseries.com/U...QEAAYAyAAEgIozPD_BwE

It can be shortened to whatever we need, the lever arms can be bent/cut/lightened. I also like that it's 3/4" solid, so should be similar to what's in there now. Another bonus, we could drill multiple downlink spots and make it adjustable.

I like the the bar in a tube design. I think this would make for more mounting options and offer more support at the ends of the bar where it's needed. I've seen those blank lever arms somewhere else. That would be a plus for adjustability for sure.

 

I also figured on a coupling nut on the bottom shock mount, and bolt a heim on the other end. I'll measure tomorrow, I have time.

So....is anyone up for making an "over the top" sway bar kit for these cars since Whiteline stopped making them?  I would REALLY love one and will pay for one.

Thanks,

Mike