Sway Bar for the back end

On the Corvair I autocrossed when I was a kid we called it a camber compensater or sway bar. It connected the two back wheels and kept them from tucking under during hard cornering. I bought it right after I almost rolled the car in a hard corner. Today, while driving the Speedster, I felt the back end start to come up in a corner so...where is a good place to buy a rear sway bar for it???

Swing axels cars use the camber compensator while IRS use rear say bars. CIP1 and others carry then (Sway-a-way is one brand). Be sure you have one on the front and it is larger than the std 3/8".

Assuming that you have a swing axle car, CB Performance, cip1, Mid-America, and most any other VW parts place should have camber compensators.

uI have to look under the car. I'm pretty sure that a 66 would be a swing axel. I'll see....thanks for the info!

Swing axles up through '68 on cars destined for America, I think (?)

Two schools of thought on rear sway bars, but camber compensators are TOTALLY required on a hard driven swing axle, they limit wheel travel and help prevent "tuck under." Kinda tame the beast.

Richard - here are a few pics for a quick visual reference. This is my VS w/swing axle. You can find much info in 'Search'...

I have an anti-sway bar on the back of my swing axle based car, and it really helped the drive-ability.
I have had bugs for years all early models with swing axles, and the improvement in handling after installing the rear anti-sway bar was dramatic.
You must use a front anti-sway bar too, or your car can be unstable.

I have never used a camber compensator, so I cannot speak about the differences between anti-sway bars and camber compensators.

While you are under the car, check all the common wear items too like ball joints, suspension bushings, shocks, and the like. I have also had some of the fasteners come loose on my suspension, so it's always a good idea to check for this every once in a while.

I pick up my anti-sway bars from moore parts. Mid America is overpriced IMHO.

Just thinking about camber compensators (I had one on a 62 Corvair):

The reason a Corvair needed one was because it had 13 inch wheels, soft springs, and a large amount of body roll in the corners. Now add skinney, fairly hard compound, corded tires used back then, and "loosing the rear end" was an event waiting to happen. When the rear end did break away under sprited motoring, it was usually a curb or a rut in the road that suddenly caught the rear wheel causing it to "tuck under" and maybe flip the car.

Now think of a speedster, with larger diameter radial tires, much better road adhesion, less weight and a lower center of gravity. The likelihood of the rear tires "tucking under" would seem to be much less. Plus, if you had an anti-sway bar on the front, you are also reducing body roll in the corners. For these reasons, I believe a modern speedster with a swing axle is far less likely to "tuck under" than an original Corvair.

Now, forget what I said, go buy that camber compensator and drive it like you stole it!

I have a rear sway bar for a swing axle I might be persuaded to part with.

It mounts like Jim's.

It is old but never used, painted red, powder coated hardware.

CB Performance

Michael....do you have all the hardware and how much you want for it?
also...thanks for all the good info guys!

I feel that Sway-A-way is the best. The compensator used to be in the good old USA. I could not find one for Merlot and ended up with EMPI.It is produced some were in the Pacific Rim. H--L to install the mounting bracket because I have a Rancho tranny which is wider than the bracket. Hammering, bending and grade 10.? metric socket-head cap screws are recommended.

I also have a Rachno transaxle. The CB Perf. compensator fit right on with no problems.

A Rachno Transaxle??

Is that an 8-legged, multi-output design??

Er, um, yeah it's got 8 speeds. Yeah, that's it. You should remember since you put it in ;-)

Lane,

I thought that Carey put on the CB...What you don't know, don't hurt you!!!! The transaxle bracket has to be widened to fit over the Rancho. One side plate is cast and the other is a thicker aluminum. Also, best to increase the stud lengths due to bracket thickness. I recommend socket head cap screws due to the increased strength over the existing studs or standard grade hex-head cap screws. I don't care for the "straps" over the axle housings. I feel that the urethane blocks are better.

The proper mounting method was supplied by Carey and his people.

Lane,

I thought that Carey put on the CB...What you don't know, don't hurt you!!!! The transaxle bracket has to be widened to fit over the Rancho. One side plate is cast and the other is a thicker aluminum. Also, best to increase the stud lengths due to bracket thickness. I recommend socket head cap screws due to the increased strength over the existing studs or standard grade hex-head cap screws. I don't care for the "straps" over the axle housings. I feel that the urethane blocks are better.

The proper mounting method was supplied by Carey and his people.

Of course, the best compensator is the one that was factory installed. My 356B was one that was set-up in Germany and brought back to the U.S. by an Army Officer. Damned, that was one great handling machine. Blow a tire at over 100 MPH on the old Texas straight road...the left rear just bounced up and down. Don't make'em like that any more!

Lane,

I thought that Carey put on the CB...What you don't know, don't hurt you!!!! The transaxle bracket has to be widened to fit over the Rancho. One side plate is cast and the other is a thicker aluminum. Also, best to increase the stud lengths due to bracket thickness. I recommend socket head cap screws due to the increased strength over the existing studs or standard grade hex-head cap screws. I don't care for the "straps" over the axle housings. I feel that the urethane blocks are better.

The proper mounting method was supplied by Carey and his people.

Of course, the best compensator is the one that was factory installed. My 356B was one that was set-up in Germany and brought back to the U.S. by an Army Officer. Damned, that was one great handling machine. Blow a tire at over 100 MPH on the old Texas straight road...the left rear just bounced up and down. Don't make'em like that any more!

I just upgraded my IM's IRS suspension... 3/4" Bugpack sway bars (made by Sway-A-Way) front and rear, KYB Gas front and Gas-A-Just rear, plus upgraded the rear torsion bars to 26mm. HUGE difference! Not too rough, but definitely feels more stable in the corners. Best help was a really good alignment setup as well. My car was way out of spec when aligned, now -2 degrees camber front and rear, zero tow front and slight tow-in in the rear. GREAT article on suspension setup here for both swing and IRS rear: http://www.aircooled.net/gnrlsite/resource/articles/handling.htm

Chuck......Thanks for the connection......Very informative.

When thread started - I thought swing axel only had choice of camber compensator and a IRS rear sway (anti-sway) bar. Now I see photos of swing axel with either (but not both). I don't see CIP1 even listing rear sway bar for swing axel (others do though). Not that I have swing axel - but what's difference in two products for a swing axel? I did find this:

The camber compensator limits the tendency of the inner rear wheel to tuck under, and also functions as a sort of overload spring. As posted, this is somewhat similar to the Z-bar VW put there in '67/'68. There is no increase in roll stiffness.

A sway bar (or more correctly, an anti-sway bar) does the opposite, increasing the roll stiffness. You NEVER want to increase rear roll stiffness without also increasing front roll stiffness. If you do, you will increase the oversteering tendency, which is quite unsafe.

For swing axel, go for the camber compensator unless you are also going to a much thicker front anti-sway bar.

This group is really getting freaky now. You mean we finally made sense of all that technical drivel? WOW, I'm realy impressed.

All that and only one minor thread drift due to spelling!

See - It can be done! This may be a new high! Nice going everyone!

David - I didn't notice until you mentioned it, but think you're correct. In the years I've been dumbing-down...I mean visiting this site, this is the first thread that didn't drift to some totally irrelevant topic by the 3rd or 4th post.

Did you know that 3 out of 4 people make up 75% of our population?

Oh really!!! It was all Bush's/Obama's fault. You/he/they are a communist/right wind fanatic/troglodyte.

Ok, now for some thread drift.

IN PLANE ENGLISH PLEASE TELL ME WHAT TO ORDER FOR THE FRONT AND WHAT TO ORDER FOR THE BACK OF MY 08 VS SPEEDSTER FOR BETTER HANDELING I WILL CALL CB PERFORMANCE UNLESS YOU SUGGEST SOMEONE ELSE THANKS

DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU HAVE. IF YOU HAVE A SWING AXLE CAR, ORDER CB PART # 2819 FOR THE REAR. FOR THE FRONT (AND REAR IF YOU HAVE IRS) DO A SEARCH ON "SWAY" AND THEN SELECT "Sway Bar Applications - VW". YOU WILL HAVE TO KNOW WHAT YEAR PAN YOUR CAR IS BASED ON TO ORDER.

LANE THANK YOU. I HAVE A 70 VW PAN THAT MY 08 VS IS ON I WILL EMAIL CB WITH THAT INFO. ITS NOT EASY FOR A VERY NON MECHANICAL PERSON LIKE ME TO F0LLOW SOME OF THE THREADS MUCH TOO MUCH IS ASSUMED DAN

A 70 Beetle pan "should" have IRS. If you are unsure, check with Kirk at VS.

Hi all; a 1970 should have IRS but I believe VS does away with the IRS and installs swingaxles in their cars (don't recall if there's an upcharge to install IRS). Anyway, I installed an EMPI camber compensator in my car some years ago and it slip right in on my stock sized swingaxle tranny without any mods; it has the red urethane supports and has worked very well.

Dan:

As mentioned here several times, when you call CB, just tell them you have a "Swing Axle Rear End". They'll know exactly what it is and send you the correct gizmo.

For the front end, just tell them it's a "1970 Ball Joint Front End" and they'll send you the right sway bar. You may have to choose between a 3/8" diameter, 1/2" diameter or a 3/4" diameter for the front. I would go with the 3/8" or 1/2". Larger than that will be a bit stiff.

gn
The Speedstah Guy from Beaufort

This is the CB unit that I just installed this week. I had to use longer studs & grind the mounting plate a little to make it fit. Once you do that, it's a quick install. I haven't tried it out yet as the snow & rain hasn't stopped yet.