Sway bar way too low.

I had a sway bar installed and I was tickled pink with the way the car handled. Only problem is the its on 3 inches from the road so I quickly noticed that I was scraping everything. Even small swails in the road would cause it to bottom. Very bummed on this one, I'll have to have it removed ASAP. I got it from CIP it was the one made for lowered front ends. I don

Sounds like you installed it upside down. The front is supposed to bow UP.

gn

Right on Gordon, back to the drawing board.

Post a picture before you go and remove the sway bar. It may not be upside down. I purchased a 3/4" for a lowered front end. It is not bent in the upward direction as much as a standard sway bar. When the front suspension is at ride height the 'lowered' bar did hang down a good bit. The guys down at Metric Autohaus were kind enough to give me a stock bar. Haven't been able to drive since I installed it but much happier with the fit. Post a pic and we can tell you if its on the right way or not.

paul

Here is the pic.

Gordon was right, its upside down. There is a reason they put it on this way though. The nose clip supports running forward of the front beam are in the way. It can not be mounted right way up when the suspension is hanging in the air. Do a search on here, some people have cut access into the two supports allowing for installation of the sway bar 'right way up'. I think it was Ricardo that posted some good photographs.

paul

Is there a bar that would fit with less modifications?


Marty

I'd like to custom bend a stock sway bar to fit just underneath the bumper supports .

can anyone comment on the proper technique to re-harden the bar. (Heat to cherry red then quench ?)

Marty, This sway bar may work on your car, but it doesn't come without a price.

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=SSS0002&cartid=

Paul

EDIT: That bar will not work on your car. I just looked at your picture a little harder. I have seen people use 356 sway bars on there type 1's, but there is fabrication involved. the 356 would work, it mounts at the bottom of the lower tube, not at the face like the one above. You would need to weld onto your front beam in order to mount it though. The link below is an image of a 356 sway bar fit to type 1 link/king pin front end. You can see the work involved.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=496498

Ill post a couple pictures of the stock bar I used. When my suspension is fully extended it just grazes my front clip supports. It may work for you.

Dam Marty--I'm surprised you havent wrecked your car with jist 3" of clearance!! Scarey for sure.

You can ask Kirk but I'm almost positive that my VS, built on a 1968 pan is just about exactly what you are working with. I will attach a photo of the one I found that works perfectly with this pan when lowered. This is the EMPI one and works pwerfectly. But DO NOT use the crappy steel clamp they offer--no human can get these clips on. Instead, use the Mid America Products (800/500-1500)

Urethhane sway bar bushings, item # 308-073 @ $14.99
Stainless Steel Bushing clamp set Item # 308-080 @ $29.99

Use a 12" Tongue and groove joint pliers to squeeze the clamps to start the nuts--its so super-easy thisway but horrible with anything else in my experience.

Next, if you haven't done it yet, get yorself a camber compensator from C. B. Performance (559/733-82220) This is their part # 2819 and is $54.95.Amazingly easy to install. This will change your life and may even save it because it prevents the wheels from tucking in as you take a fsat, tight turn which can cause a VW based car to roll over! For high performance cars this is even more important!

You can handle this before Carlisle and won't believe the change to your car's handling. It will still have that smooth, nice ride and handling but will turn like it's on rails.

Good luck with that gorgeous car,Marty!----Jack

Marty--here's a more readable sheet about the sway bar.---Jack

Marty:

That 3/4" bar is probably a little overkill for your car, anyway.

Search around (maybe at the Carlisle parts vendors) and get a stock, mid-60's or later, front sway bar and simply mount it upside down. It'll fit like it's made for it. That's what VS installs if you order a sway bar from them. I think it's just under 1/2" thick.

If you want to keep the 3/4" (19mm) bar on the front (nothing wrong with it if you do - just stiff, that's all) then find someone who can modify your front bumper mounts. They don't hold up anything but the bumper, anyway, so they're easy to remove and make them so that the bar will clear. I did mine the same as Ricardo Baerga, so check out his photos in that section to see how to do it. took me about an hour (but I had a welder to play with.)

gn

Marty--I trust Gordon and have gotten a lot of really fine info from him.

All I'll add is that this particular EMPI sway bar fits my VS, so it will fit yours, it's easy and simple to install, is readily available and works great. If it weighs a few more ounces than some other sway bar you have to search around for well, so what? I did NOT have to modify my bumper mounts or anything else like some of the cutting and welding I read here from some like Ricardo who have had to to this to get whatever sway bar it was that they purchased to "clear". This item clears with zero modification. I Think it's just better to get something that works in the first place! I was very fortunate that someone recommended this particular unit to me as I need all the help I can get!

My car is on the same pan as yours and this filled the bill for me.

As far as stiffness, well, this is the only one I have used so I don't have any other sway bar to compare with, but I will say that my smooth ride, and handling only improved after installing this sway bar. God knows we all can use a few more ounces of weight in the front of these cars!

I highly recommend this sway bar to you based on my personal experience with it. Good luck with whatever you decide. I wanted you to have a complete picture of how it worked out for me though.

Regards---Jack

Mark your sway bar at the ends of the beam then take it off and have it heated and bent upwards 4 inches on a 3 inch radius its the best fix I have found. and then works perfectly normal . You do have to have notched bumper brackets but you can do that too..

Jack,
My experience was exactly as yours with my empi bar. No modification, just a half hour of labor. As for it being heavy, a little extra weight up front probably helps more than it hurts. I just check my installation periodically to make sure all is still tight and in the right place.

Tom--you are right. Tom recommends heating and bending but the EMPI one doesn;'t need that at all. Anyway who is smart enough to know how hot to heat it, how much to bend it and in what direction to bend it. Man, I ain't looking for projects and prefer the easy peasy solution if it's been proven.

I'm jusr sayin'----Jack

I got "stung" by the lowered sway bar gremlin also. When I widened the front beam five inches, I ordered a wider 3/4 inch sway bar from Sway-A-Way. The front end is definitely lowered, so I ordered a lowered bar. Logical right - WRONG! Turns out I should have ordered a non-lowered version - but mine was custom made, so no return possible. Anyway, I just cut and re-enforced the front bumper mounts to accept the large kick-up in a "lowered bar".

I just can't imagine what anyone could do to a VW beam to need that big of a kick-up for their sway bar? But alls well that ends well.

Ironically, before I widened the beam, I all ready had a 3/4 inch standard width bar that was of the non-lowered nature - but I did not know that - and it fit perfect. I'm a little smarter now.

Marty -

Just read this post and see that David K. gave you the low-down on installing your front sway bar. Here's a pic of the mod I had to do to my front bumper brackets for sway bar clearance.

Sorry for being away for so long...life's been a little complicated. Here's the photo again:

While my bar is not as low as Marty's it does go down a bit. I still have a lot of clearance to the road but its a hassle to get in there with a jack because the bar is directly under the axle.

Does the bar still work placed like this?

Check out the pic.

Dave

Ricado.s is about the same as mine But my brackets have more clearance around them. But YOU get the idea !!

Dave:

That looks like a stock diameter bar.

Take it off, Flip it over and re-install it. It should fit like it's made to go that way.

gn

About half the pics i see of sway bar mounts show the bar rubber bushed/shackled to the torsion tubes, and the other half are "free range"

What the Pro/Con to shackling the body of the bar to the torsion tubes ??

Dave; can you elaborate on your question? I'm afraid I don't understand it well.

Most sway bars have bracketry that rubber mounts the bar to the frame allowing the bar to rotate but not "float free"
Then again most cars have "A" frames too.

"Most cars" do NOT have trailing arm front suspension arms. Hence the rather unique installation of the anti-sway bar on a VW chasis. The VW installation "looks" all wrong, but it does work very well.

Don't get me started on trailing arm suspension and "bump-steer" . . . . . or trailing arm suspension and "camber gain" . . . .

Marty,
I use only the stock sway bar on speedsters...the oem bar was designed for a VW that is hundreds of pounds heavier than a speedster.
Unless you are going road racing, the aftermarket 3/4" bar is not necessary and is too stiff. ~Alan

Alan,

I did go to a stock bar that Kirk sent me. Still a bit low but much better.

Alan is right. Since my car came with none I got what I could at the local VW shop.

I have to agree with Alan.

Even though I have a 3/4" bar at the front AND rear (IRS Suspension), unless you're a regular at Watkins Glen of Laguna Seca, stick with the stock (3/8") bar on the front (installed upside down for a speedster) and only install a 3/8" on the rear if you really feel you need it. Most don't.

A Camber compensator spring on the rear of a Swing-arm suspension is always a good idea. You may find you don't need a front sway bar if you install the camber compensator first.

I'll support Gordon's last statement. With the camber compensator I have very little body roll in the type of cornering that I do. I haven't yet felt the need for a front sway bar.

Could this be why or helping my front end BOUNCE like it does?

I have both and I feel safer.

I agree with Ricardo--I have both and my car rides like it's on rails. Absolutely no swaying or bobbing and the ride is smoother than a Corvette. At the last Tail Of The Dragon the car was just great on fast tight turns.

I wouldn't want to give up either the front sway bar or the camber compensator as I want all the safety factors I can have with this
little car! That's why I also added a third brake light and a loud air horn!---Jack

But all those safety and performence add-ons can get totally over-ridden by excess testosterone!

Since our cars lack computers which can intercede by invoking federally mandated safety over-rides, I am told that Obama is pushing legislation for all drivers of such cars to have a federally mandated vasectomy before their next license renewal.

Finally!

Something to look forward to!