Sweet 1600 Super

OK, Tom, THAT was funny!!

Here you go, Jim

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6...s/72157630662668798/

Bob............WOW..........

Wow is right.  It's a car that Henry built for the owner/developer of the condo development that actually got Henry booted out of his building.  There was a hope that he could stay, but I guess the zoning bylaws would not allow that.

 

Anyway, it looks like one 'mean machine'.

 

Here's a link to one (older) story on the development:

 

http://autos.ca.msn.com/editor...oping-meet-over-cars

Now that's what I'm talking about! 

My neighbors are all good people-- upstanding pillars of society, and completely grown up. If I had ANYTHING with an air-cooled flat 6, I can guarantee you I'd lose my standing as a respectable member of the community faster than you can say, "6000 RPM by the corner". I sold my last motorcycle about 20 years ago, when my lack of any vehicular self-control became difficult for the citizens and local constabulary of my little hamlet to ignore. Turns out, no matter what I've done to redeem myself in my hometown, I'm just one 120 mph blast from "50 year-old juvenile delinquent" in the eyes of Johnny Law.

 

You ought to drive Rick Davis' IM/6, my surf-lovin', cain't we all just geta' long-board friend. It would reduce you to tears.

 

2.2 based 2.7 with PMOs. Crazy power, and it sounds like the sky ripping in two when it gets past 5K (or so) RPM. It's like crack-- far and away the coolest car I've ever driven, or will ever drive.

 

I know with my head that water-cooled fours are the future of the hobby. But I'm a retro-grade throw-back-- and if I'm to be dragged into the modern age, it'll be kicking and screaming all the way.

 

Burn me at the stake.

Stan,

 

I wish someone would make it easier to get dragged into the future bycoming up with a DIY Suby conversion kit with simplified connect the dots instructions and required parts list as to what gets bolted on and what gets welded on.

 

I've got the engine...The Kennedy Adapter is in the pipeline...and I'm tripping over a big box of odds and ends that I have little idea what the hell to do with them!

 

At Carlisle I'll be the old dude scrambling under every Suby powered machine there snapping pictures, taking notes, and asking stupid questions.

I think I am with a few of you.  I really like the pain in the ass oil leaking, gas smelling dual carb always out of synch vw air cooled.  I think it would be a trip to find a way to put my old Boxster motor into my speedy though.  Now that would be a really, really scary car.  But a 911 motor - holy shizzle.

 

i am only 41 and don't know what a good oil breather is for god sakes but it is a great hobby to learn and I am enjoying the air cooled motors!  I wouldn't know what to do if I could just get in and drive the damn thing.  I have a Honda accord that does that for me!  And I wouldn't have anything to bitch about to my wife or at the builder

This just in: The project has been approved! Click on the blue font for the link to the story.

So now Henry has to move again?

 

What a great idea this was, and still is.  Were I to move to Vancouver, I know where I would live.

 

Mr. Blue (first name please; this is so impersonal and we're all friends here, even if we've never met)-

No doubt you've done a lot of reading and some of it's pretty confusing, although I hope some of it's sinking in and starting to make sense. VW motors, as you may have realized, are somewhat unique in that it's possible to take a 1600 to over 2500 cc's (2552cc's- 90mm crank with LN Engineering 95mm Nickies) and with the different size crankshafts and piston/cylinder sets made there are over 80 engine size combos possible in between... 

 

You've also heard from a several people commenting on how a bigger motor(ideally 2 liters or a little bigger) will be more fun to drive, and if set up right will have reasonably long life (done right, 75,000 miles or more between full rebuilds is possible), be reasonably low maintenance and dependable (a car you can jump in at a moment's notice and take off for the weekend) and mileage be somewhat economical (again, as long as you're not constantly screaming around like a raped ape from the moment you get in it 'till the key is turned off). The exact size and crankshaft/piston combo doesn't matter- whether it's a 78x90.5, 92 or 94 (2007, 2074, 2165 cc's), 82x90.5, 92 or 94 (2110, 2180, 2276) or an 84x?? (2161, 2234, 2332), anything over 2 liters will have enough torque for a fun car. Just remember that bigger always means more fun!

 

What matters on these motors is heads; they have to be chosen to compliment the engine size and intended rpm range (powerband). Stock (35.32mm valves) dual port heads have a hp limit of 85-90hp- they'll work really well on a 1776 or 1915 set up to rev to 5000 or 5500rpm with power, but on a 2180 the motor will peak (and not rev any higher) at 4000-4500rpm. Stock valve ported heads will support 120 hp and on the same motor will allow it to rev another 1,000rpm and make appropriately more power. With the right cam, carbs and exhaust these would work well on a 2 literish combo.

 

On anything appreciably over 2 liters, ported big valve (40x35) heads (170hp limit) will give the rpm range intended and still have enough airspeed at lower engine speeds to make killer torque. With a 21-2200cc motor, 140-150hp is possible, and all in by 6000rpm and with incredible bottom end power. A guy on the Samba (his name is Gerico) built a 2276, it dynoed at 158hp (6,000rpm) and the torque curve was huge!

 

Oops, look at the time; I'll find the Samba link later so you can have a look at it. Al

 

 

The Cressey / Intermeccanica project just seems to be really synergistic. Great cars and condos with Porsche 356 design cues and paint colors to boot. Talk about creating a complimentary relationship!

 

I wonder if they offer a combo deal, condo and car purchase. Incorporate your car exterior and interior colors into the condo. Same leather on the sofa and the speedster seats for example. How about a Nardi door knob, billet faucet controls and matching cocomats for condo carpets and car? 

As mentioned in my previous post, the link for Gerico's 2276- http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265227&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=gerico&start=0

Parts list is on page 3, I believe. A similarly set up 2165 or 2180 would produce only a few hp less; what impresses me is the torque "table".

 

Basic recipe-

 

2 liters or over (the bigger the better!)

 

cam/rocker combo- 250-255' duration @ 0.050", 1/2" valve lift. Note-I've used the duration @ 0.050" figure; it gives a better idea of how a motor will run. The advertised duration numbers can be misleading if the cam is ground with either shorter or longer than normal ramps. This will give to about 6,000 rpm with power, yet still provide great bottom end. For a motor that peaks 500rpm sooner, the dur @ 0.050" # should be 245-248'.

 

ported 40x35 heads with dual valve springs and properly matched intake manifolds.

 

carbs- 40 or 44mm Webers or Dellortos (40 or 45) will work equally well here.

 

26mm blueprinted and o-ringed oil pump

 

case modified for full flow filter, Bob Hoover's case modifications for better lifter/rocker oiling and more heat removal from the heads, and piston squirters would be a great idea here too.

 

1 1/2" or 1 5/8" merged exhaust (size will depend on displacement and powerband)

 

Of course, all the proper engine tin with a doghouse cooler and shroud (for best cooling) will be required. A thermostatically controlled exterior cooler/fan assembly would be a good idea as well. And last (but not least)- make sure there is enough air intake into the engine compartment. Failure to take care of this seemingly insignificant point will result in a motor that dies prematurely, probably somewhere miles from home!

 

Hope this helps. Al

 

 

Joelabraham- how much did you spend in parts and time upgrading your motor to what a 1915cc? Is the current up graded motor running hot; did you add a oil cooler? I'm now hearing going to a 1915cc motor need an oil cooler.

Mr. Blue (do you have a first name?)-

If the the combo and the tune are right, all the engine tin is present, there is adequate fresh air intake and the gearing is right, a 1915 shouldn't need an extra cooler. I know of someone with a 2180 (9.25:1 cr, 48IDA's, revs to 6500rpm with power and will lay down a 12 second 1/4 mile) and all it uses is a stock doghouse cooler and engine tin. Al

Al-

 

I've never been able to understand how Glenn gets away with that, but I think it's the thick-wall 92s.

The oe doggy style coolers work real good, a lot better than the "plate type"(72,96 etc) they dont flow air worth a crap, and air is what removes the heat. they do work but not as good as they should. I will put a real good cooler on my 356 when it's ready for one. Along with AC for me to keep cool.

I've been wondering about that too.

Bluespeedster,

 

I spent $1800 on parts and machine shop work.This included cylinders,pistons,rings,cam,bearings, pushrods, HD pressure plate,dual empi 34s,ceramic coated header and ss muffler. It was a good running low mileage engine and the heads and valves were in good shape.

I pulled it out and replaced it myself. I spent $50-$75 on miscellaneous parts-hardware,paint, hoses, clamps,etc.

Then I spent about $700 on dual Spanish Weber 40 IDFs and linkage. It does become addictive!

I installed a head temp gauge and a oil temp gauge and so far it hasn't run hot but until this  past weekend it was very cold in New Jersey. I have only about 700 miles on the engine and so far no oil cooler. I had to get help adjusting the webers-Try as I might it was running too rich-it stunk and the gas mileage sucked. Now its much better-I only put 50 miles on Sunday and I didn't have time to check but my guess is in the mid twenties.

I hope this info helps-I plan to drive the tub to Carlisle.

Joel

You guys make me laugh; I'm talking about someone on another forum(whom I've never actually met, and I'm betting neither of you have either) and you both know who I'm referring to. I burst out loud when I read Stan's post.. 

 

I think it works for a number of reasons; the combo is right, it's installed properly with all the sheet metal (including the industrial tins; so important that the spent cooling air leaves the engine area enters the under the car airstream properly), there's enough air intake to the engine compartment for the bigger motor so the carburetion isn't stealing air from the cooling system, and having the 5 speed means never having to push it if he doesn't want to. And yes, the thickwall 92's act as a great heat sink. I don't know if every big motor can get away without an extra oil cooler, but some manage it....

 

The one thing I want to expand upon is air intake into the engine compartment, because I don't think a lot of people (and not just on this forum) appreciate what happens when a VW motor is starved for air. IT OVERHEATS.  And there's an easy test anyone can perform.

 

Get a piece of clear aquarium air line tubing (15 or 20 feet will set you back all of 2-$3), anchor one end to the fan shroud (right by the coil area works), have a helper put one end into a clear glass of water and note the water level in the tube with the motor running, engine lid open and closed- shouldn't be any difference. Now with the helper in the passenger seat, a little drive around town. Again, any difference? And finally, what happens at highway speeds?

 

For anyone who's car seems to run fine around town yet sometimes gets hot on highway jaunts, before adding an extra cooler/fan assembly try increasing the air intake to the engine compartment. Whether you duct air through the front breastplate (over the flywheel end of the motor) or front firewall, remove the breastplate altogether (a head temp gauge will tell you if leaves, a rag or plastic bag has been sucked into the fan and a screen over it would be a good idea), cut a hole in the firewall; however it's done, you may find an extra cooler isn't needed. And if your big motor still needs some additional cooling on those hot days, that's alright too. Al

 

PS- Removing the rear tin over the exhaust lets heat into the engine compartment, and is counterproductive to what we're trying to achieve here.

In response to Ed's post about weight on page 1 of this thread:

 

Most Speedsters weigh upwards of 1800 pounds. Some are in the 1700 range, but most are 1800-2000 pounds. Turbo Subi SAW(SAS) cars are close to 2400. Your mileage may vary....

 

How do I know? We weighed about 10 cars on my scales at Carlisle one year....

 

Ed, Loved your posts on power/torque/hp! See ya soon. 

Can we weigh my car this year? I'm thinking she's like 1700 loaded but that's just what the build manual suggests and I really have no idea.

I weigh my automotive projects at the county land fill with "no charge" as I'm not leaving anything  there....  I've also used truck scales at several chicken processing plants....  The county was more accurate....  This won,t get you all the trick data ( front to rear and side to side ratios ) as Danny P. did at Carlisle, but the over all weight will be amazingly close....

I'd be interested to see how much weight I added with the sound insulation I put in.  I'm also toying with adding some weight up front in the form of lead shot or something.

Bluespeedster,

I forgot to mention that in my build I installed a larger oil sump-4-4 1/2 qts. This should help in keeping the temp down. It sits lower than i like but it hasn't bottomed out yet.

You asked about how much time it took.The engine came out and went back in rather quickly. i used ramps and jack stands to get the car high enough and a motorcycle jack to lower and raise the engine. I spent a lot of time modifying the tin to clear the header, wiring, installing the heating? system, installing the intake manifolds

and adj. the carbs and detailing in general but thats me-its a hobby after all.

I enjoy driving the tub but I don't consider it a daily driver even  though I installed a 3/4" front sway bar and a rear camber compensator-its just too fussy.

 

Joel-Silverspeedster

 

 

 

 

Lane, you might try reducing your tire pressure.  The owner's manual says 22 in the front, but Carey sets them @18.  I'm currently running 20 & 24.

Ed, I can be persuaded to bring them again, for a beer or two

Tom - I run 18 front, 28 rear.

Tom wrote: "Lane, you might try reducing your tire pressure.  The owner's manual says 22 in the front, but Carey sets them @18.  I'm currently running 20 & 24"

 

I used to run Pearl at 16 front and 18 rear.  Always liked the ride, along with a small amount of tire squeal in cornering.  

 

Then Chris and I went to Watkins Glen and did some "parade laps" on the road track.  I forgot to pump the tires up before that session, so every time we hit a corner and the tires really squealed, Chris would give me one of those withering side-stares which mostly said: "You dumb ass!"  

 

Since then, I've been running 20F and 22-24R on the street (26F, 28R on the track) and that seems like a happy medium.  Oh, and that's on 205F and 225R tires.

 

BTW:  According to my 1971 VW Service Manual (the real deal as used by VW service techs) the 1971 Beetle Sedan weighed 1850 dry, no passengers, and the recommended radial tire pressure was 18F and 27R on narrower tires.

I guess I will chime in on this, as I used to sell tires and did quite a lot of fitment and load calculations during those Plus1 and Plus2 years with Rabbit/Scirocco stuff.

 

I run about the same as Lane and Gordon do on the street. I bump up 2 or 3 psi for interstate travel to Carlisle and eventually will jack it up even more if I ever hit the track.

 

The size of the tire doesn't really matter, as much as the load it is carrying and the load it is rated for. That is what determines what tire pressure is needed as well as sidewall deflection under heavy side load. As in all things in life, compromise is the answer. Too little pressure, the center of the tire contact patch curves up away from the road and the sidewall flexes too much. Too much pressure, contact patch becomes smaller, but sidewalls are stiff for cornering. The key is to get it just right with a nice flat contact patch for the conditions, which are obviously different for street and track. Tire temperature plays a part here too. These cars weigh a little less usually than the stock Bug(unless somebody had a HEAVY chopper-gun day at CMC!) so tire pressure should be in the same ballpark but weight distribution has changed with the shorter wheelbase and different body.

 

Did you know you can tune the cornering somewhat with tire pressure? If you want understeer, decrease front a bit and/or increase rear. If you want oversteer increase the front and/or decrease the rear.   

I will give beer, man. Thanks too for the tire pressure knowledge. I've been driving with 16 front and 24 rear for a couple years and it makes a huge difference in ride quality. I'm amazed by the number of car guys who have no idea about this and get a little cranky when you try to tell them.

I found that I could adjust my track Miata's handling by changing the tire pressure (track DOT tries).  Once I had my suspension dialed in I adjusted the front/rear tire pressure until I got a bit of understeer, to be on the safe side, since two corners on the track I do most of my driving on have cement barrier walls.

A spin on those two corners would be VERY expensive!

Yeah. Better to plow into them.

   A strange thing happens when I dial in too much oversteer.....I tend to spin, around and around.....very embarrassing.

Ed, I have had people tell me they inflate to whatever the sidewall says, which is MAX pressure. Where is that writer guy?

American Slang:    Two words originally defined the tube type tires due to their propensity to 'blow out'     Those words are:          May and Pop which ultimately were combined into Maypop....  

Oversteer:  Hey dumb-ass, the back of your car is about to pass your front.

Been there......done that.

so were going driffting ,Oh what fun!!!