Synthetic Oil

The August issue of Consumer Reports had an interesting report on autos that were prone to sludge buildup in their engines. "CR recommends that owners of vehicles with sludge-prone engines use an American Petroleum Institute-approved synthetic motor oil..." "Synthetics have a higher tolerance for extreme heat and flow better in cold temperatures....."

Well, okay, but what is the consensus regarding synthetics in replica Speedsters? Does its use really prevent sludge buildup in comparison to dino oil, or is it just a waste of money to pay extra for synthetics? And....is the use of synthetic vs. dino oil increase the oil-leak factor? Yeah, I know this is an old subject, but I haven't found any information on sludge buildup.

Barry, this is a much discussed topic on the forum. I suggest that you do a search on synthetic oil and see what comes up. This is an area where we have historically not been in agreement. I used it for years in one of my Jeeps but in the later years the vehicle developed leaks. There are advantages and disadvantages.

When I tore down my former Chev. Sprint 3-banger it was crudded up in side.I had every thing cooked down clean. After years of using Mobil One, you could remove the oil filler cap and look in at the valve train and it looked as clean as the day I put it back together.
I use it in my modern vehicles but in the Speedster I use a synthetic blend as I'm worried about the leakage problem. I may try it some time though.

BD

Barry; from what I've read synthetics will leave the engine parts very clean inside. They will make your air cooled VW engine leak a lot more for sure.

"CR recommends that owners of vehicles with sludge-prone engines use an American Petroleum Institute-approved synthetic motor oil..." "Synthetics have a higher tolerance for extreme heat and flow better in cold temperatures....."

All true.....however, you have to be careful if you start using ANY oils designed to prevent sludge build-up AFTER the sludge is already present. Often they prevent sludge by including a detergent in the oil formulation.

If you have an engine that ALREADY HAS obvious sludge in it, AND you then install a detergent oil, synthetic or otherwise, the detergent will act against the sludge and dislodge it, sometimes in large amounts. This sludge is a combination of dirt, carbon build-up and fine metallic particles, and now it is in high concentration and being pumped around in your engine (the oil filter, if it even has one, can't trap all of it at once) so it's now getting pumped into bearing spaces and so forth. Not a good thing.....
Bill Drayer got around this by having his engine cleaned before he started using synthetic oil - that's a good thing.

Bear in mind that it's not so much that the oil is synthetic, as much as it has detergent in it. In this example, Dino or Synthetic oil doesn't make much difference.

Some of the sludge is caused by the engine running hot, and synthetics are less sludge-prone under hotter conditions (as noted on the tech pages of the Mobil 1 website and by CR) and that's good. Even so, I've torn down quite a few VW engines, and I seldom saw one that had a lot of sludge in it, mostly because in the old VW days, people tended to change oil often and that prevented a lot of sludge build-up. Not that it never happened, but I can't say VW engines are more heat-sludge-prone than any other.

I tried using 20W-50 Kendall GT-1 Synthetic in my VW engine for a while, in an attempt to reduce my oil temperature. I maybe got a 5 degree drop, and that was about it. Couldn't justify continued use based on that, and then I installed an external oil cooler anyway and the temp problem went away.

My experience with full synthetics has been covered in other posts, but I've found that you can run them longer before viscosity breakdown or acidity build-up occurs, they tend to get thinner at normal running temps than Dino oils (I believe that's what causes them to leak more), they smell a bit different when "cooked" (you can tell when to change them by the smell, if you're good) and, if filtered well, they tend to stay lighter in color than Dino types under the same running conditions. Full synthetics also seem to forestall or prevent proper engine break-in, so I usually recommend that friends get 10K - 12K miles on their new engine with Dino oil before switching over to a full synthetic, although new Ford truck engines (I heard today) are broken in before install, so they recommend synthetic oil, too.

Are they worth the expense?? Well, new Mercedes and Porsches come with Mobil1 as standard, and that's ALL they recommend for their engines. Think they know something, or are they just a premium marque?

As for the rest of us, Oil's cheap (so far) and you change, what? Once a year? Use whatever you want!

gn

With engines that are prone to run hot at times, synthetic oil lets you relax that your oil will not break down if your engine is running hotter than it should for some reason. For me it's a small extra cost for some piece of mind. And in the long run it's way cheaper than a rebuild.
Ron

Barry,

I've tested Valvoline 30W & 20-50W, Pennsoil 30W & 20-50W, Castrol 30 & 20-50W, Kendall 40W Racing & Redline 20-50W Synthetic.

All tests were performed in High Ambient Temperature (90-100 Degrees)
and Red Line 20-50W Synthetic has held up the best regarding Cold Start/High Ambient Operation.

The Redline is not effected as the other Brands when the engine is being operating durin High Ambient Temperatures.

I called the Redline Oil's Factory and discussed the oil with one of their Petrolium Engineers/Chemists. Described the 1930's Engine Design & Oil Pump Impeller Clearance. After the conversation I decided to test the oil he recommended (20-50W).

1776 Engine, Mild Cam, Header, Duel Dells, 28 Degrees Advance & NGK Cold Plugs.

This is the best Oil Tested as of this date.

Good Luck,

Jack

Does it really matter in a 1776? Funny thing is that I put straight 30 weight (Castrol) into my slightly modified beetle (dual carbs, header, power pulley), and when I sold it, at 115,000 miles, it was still running fine. The problem today is not the oil, but the crappy air cooled motors. Many air cooled people today 'poo-poo' Gene Berg's 'old school' motors, but he built his to LAST. For Gene, anything less than 50,000 miles on a motor was unacceptable. Today these Mexican crate (crap) motors often fail before 10,000 miles. It doesn't matter what oil you put into these motors...they will fail. For a mild 1776 or 1915 I doubt it matters what oil you use. What's more important is that the motor has quality parts and that the oil is changed regularly. Now, if you've got a 150-170 hp motor, that's another story.

Can we hear an "Amen?"

AMEN!

I really wasn't going to chime in but (my opinion),
1. prevents "oil break down" (marketing genius) at high temps.
most if not all won't see these "extreme temps" therefore
your paying extra for "protection" you won't need/use.

2. oil is rated for its abilities.
a 10wt is a 10wt is a 10wt no matter the color of the can.

Gordon said it. synthetics flow better when cold (for our buddies in the extreme north). waste of money for warm weather pleasure cars
driven on nice days

You have to ask yourself. Manufacturers used to say
1st-- change every 3000
then--change every 7500
now--a monitor system checks it for particles and then your car tells
you when to change it. it's not based on break down, viscosity just
good old dirt.
Did the oil change? Get twice as good? Oil doesn't "break down", they clean
it, add a few additives (detergents etc.) and back on the shelf it goes.
that being said I like castrol 20/50 (nice colored bottle),
But I buy what ever is on sale

ps-I work for a major airline with a few hundred planes. They use
synthetics exclusively due to the actual "high temp".
do you know which brand they choose. Thats right the one who gives
them the best deal. happy flying.

Ooops! Hit the wrong button!

sorry.....can't delete a post on this site...

Agree with Ron and Gord 100%. I'm a Gene Berg fan all the way because he put emphasis on reliability and long life along with more power; that's really the bottom line.

Barry:

My understanding is that your car is basically the same build as mine. I toyed with the idea of changing to synthetic after break-in, but I read the strings and decided to stick with the real deal. Also, you will have a spin-on oil filter like mine, sludge will not be a problem. The problem we have is seeing the oil level on the dipstick, because the oil is filtered so well.

I now have 2,400 miles on "Air Tub", and let me say this, you will not have any heating / fricton problems (it's around 100 degress today in San Fernando's Pit) and if you use a real petroleum product your garage floor will be clean!

But (I can't resist) I hope all of you will favor drilling in the Alaska National Wildlife Reserve (ANWR) (Let the middle east eat their sand).

I tend to agree with the post from the airline mechanic.

I'm running dino because I think it's more important to change it often than it is to buy sythetic. With an external filter how long does it take.....15 minutes? C'mon......I've spent more time reading this thread.

I also am a strict believer in Pennzoil....cause I like the yellow plastic bottle....LOL (that was great).