T4 torque v T1 torque

Ok, I admit I am confused. Maybe Jake and George can offer an explanation.

Two non-stock engines, a T1 & T4. Similar displacements. Similar cams, compression ratio and head work, carbs and exhaust systems.

If I put engine "A" in my car an drove it for an hour on the highway and around town, parked it and removed engine A and installed engine "B" and drove it for an hour on the highway and around town, would I know by seat of the pants alone which was T1 and which T4?

Yes, no?

Is T1 generated torque different than T4 torque? It would almost have to be the same as torque is the by-product of a combination of parts irregardless of the parts being used, T1 or T4, right?

I can see how the OEM stock T4 applications kick T1's butts hands down with torque and life expectance, look at the life-cycle of the later model T2 engines compared to the smaller bus engines, but that is a stock comparision.

In my mind I would prefer the T4, but that is just me. Much is said about the benefits of the two engines, and lets no get into how many miles either would last, let's focus on educating my thick head about torque made by T1 v T4.

I know of two differences between the T1 and T4. At a given large displacement, the T4 will always be closer to stoke than the T1 (less modified), and the T4 cools better stock (requires less modification to attain a given amount of cooling).

I don't know about the torque differences, if any.

I'm not sure here but I think the type four gets it's torque from being much larger in size. Of course your going to get more torque from a larger engine but I'm not so sure about that when it comes to hp. I always thought torque was most affected by rod length/stroke and sheer size when comparing the same engine layout (flat four). Given the same engine parameters (rod length, stroke, piston size, valves, carbs ect) I speculate if the engines would feel simular.

J-P

Into the fray wades the dummy... what exactly is the difference between a Type I and Type IV engine? I know Type IV engines were developed later by VW - do they have a horizontal cooling fan as the Corvair? Or what..?

Thanks. Is there a good web source that compares the two engine types?

Bob

This is a hot-button issue with few people in the middle gray zone without strong-held opinions on this subject.

For my two cents I would say the most important thing is to find a good builder who uses only quality parts in a well-thought-out combo. A bad builder or bad parts or a bad combo and you won't be satisfied.

That said, some say T4 engines have a longer service life, which is what VW was aiming for. On the other hand T1 people say the T4 heads and exhaust options are limited and expensive. The Europeans have been building monster T4 engines for a couple of decades, there are few performance T4 shops in the States, but Jake Raby is definitely on the cutting edge.

It may be telling that while Jake is a lightning rod as the homeboy isn't shy about expressing his opinions, yet his customers all rave about how professional he is to work with and I have never heard anyone with one of his engines bad mouth it. And to be fair, I haven't heard anyone say anything negative about a T1 engine by Pat Downs either.

Back to the cost argument... T1 folks say T4 is more expensive. T4 believers respond that if you factor in the service life of the two engines that T4 is cheaper in the long run.

This is tough...

The powerband is totally different. Dyno graphs show it, but do not do it justice. I have driven TI and TIV engines in the same car and can tell you now that the experience is totally different from the sound to the powerband. About as different as night and day.

I don't have much time this morning I'll post more later.

What I'd like to know is if the two engines feel different if they have simular setups, (stroke, bore, cam, valve size, compression, ect.). I bet they feel the same if the setup is alike, this is only speculation though.

J-P

Jean-Paul, the answer to your question is yes. Type 4 engines do not transcend the laws of physics.