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Tale of Woe

El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
Listed as Non-Technical as in non-Speedster, but sorta technical. Maybe file it under Terminal Dumb-ass, or maybe just Snake Bit, . . . anywho,

A few careful observers will recall I asked a while back about oil filters that might leak. Like if you do not tighten right, or the gasket fails, or something. I was having some wetness on bottom side of the engine in my Mazda6 V6, and was looking for where a little bit of seep might be coming from. Was putting a small drip on the garage floor now and then. No biggie, as I have had cars that dripped oil much worse in years past. But this car had been dry as bone for 65K and so now what?? And I 1st noticed just after I changed the oil filter. Well, I put up w/ it for a while, looked around at other spots, could not really tell where was the source. Thought maybe the drain plug, as gasket there never renewed, and was getting stiff. Put in a new one at the next change. Bottom of engine still getting wet, small drip now and then, sorta smells a bit when engine hot, drips now once in a while on exhaust pipes in the area, so stinks. Still, not enough to even register on the dip stick. I thought: main crank front seal. Hmmm, that would not be fun. Ho-ho, little did I know. Rumbled on for while, now at 72K, still dripping, wet bottom. So I go to a local Mazda club tech night at one of the local good-guy dealers, and speak to mechanics that know the engine. They agree that likely is main crank seal, but not too bad to fix -- they charge $250. So I decide OK, I'll have them do it. -- Can you hear what's coming next?? I arrange to take the car in. Guy calls me to explain what he sees once they start to dig. PS This is a V6 FWD, so packed in pretty tight. Their assessment: oil coming from all four engine seals: main front crank, timing chain cover, oil pan and the fire-wall side valve cover. Was $250, now is $1400. Oh woe is me. Guy says he'll do just the main crank seal, but knows I'll be back soon complaining he did not fix it. And so, nicely positioned over the barrel, bottom side up, and with plenty of lubricant applied, I got screwed. In fairness, I have heard that this engine has rep for leaking oil from its seals. Also, I went to the shop and looked before they went whole hog, and I could see the fresh oil on the engine at these places.

PS: the oil filter, at around $3.50 or so, is dry as a bone. Anybody else here drive one of these?

2007 JPS MotorSports Speedster

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El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
Listed as Non-Technical as in non-Speedster, but sorta technical. Maybe file it under Terminal Dumb-ass, or maybe just Snake Bit, . . . anywho,

A few careful observers will recall I asked a while back about oil filters that might leak. Like if you do not tighten right, or the gasket fails, or something. I was having some wetness on bottom side of the engine in my Mazda6 V6, and was looking for where a little bit of seep might be coming from. Was putting a small drip on the garage floor now and then. No biggie, as I have had cars that dripped oil much worse in years past. But this car had been dry as bone for 65K and so now what?? And I 1st noticed just after I changed the oil filter. Well, I put up w/ it for a while, looked around at other spots, could not really tell where was the source. Thought maybe the drain plug, as gasket there never renewed, and was getting stiff. Put in a new one at the next change. Bottom of engine still getting wet, small drip now and then, sorta smells a bit when engine hot, drips now once in a while on exhaust pipes in the area, so stinks. Still, not enough to even register on the dip stick. I thought: main crank front seal. Hmmm, that would not be fun. Ho-ho, little did I know. Rumbled on for while, now at 72K, still dripping, wet bottom. So I go to a local Mazda club tech night at one of the local good-guy dealers, and speak to mechanics that know the engine. They agree that likely is main crank seal, but not too bad to fix -- they charge $250. So I decide OK, I'll have them do it. -- Can you hear what's coming next?? I arrange to take the car in. Guy calls me to explain what he sees once they start to dig. PS This is a V6 FWD, so packed in pretty tight. Their assessment: oil coming from all four engine seals: main front crank, timing chain cover, oil pan and the fire-wall side valve cover. Was $250, now is $1400. Oh woe is me. Guy says he'll do just the main crank seal, but knows I'll be back soon complaining he did not fix it. And so, nicely positioned over the barrel, bottom side up, and with plenty of lubricant applied, I got screwed. In fairness, I have heard that this engine has rep for leaking oil from its seals. Also, I went to the shop and looked before they went whole hog, and I could see the fresh oil on the engine at these places.

PS: the oil filter, at around $3.50 or so, is dry as a bone. Anybody else here drive one of these?
FM Former Member
Seriously? You do WHAT for a living?

Dang. Don't you have a decent Power-train warranty? Did you buy the super-duper warranty all the dealers offer nowadays -- usually some single-sheet form in with all of your purchase documents? Might be worth a look.

My VeeDub has one, good for another eight thousand miles or so. I'd be very surprised if you didn't have something similar.
El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
OK, for Allen's idea -- been there, done that. First Audi (used -- big mistake) blew an automatic transmission, and after dumping in a junk yard replacement, traded it in at an Audi dealer (who else would take it??) for another (used) Audi -- another big mistake. Second one was no better than the first, w/ numerous enormously expensive problems, leading the pack was a leaking heater core (wet carpets inside and that unmistakable smell) and a leaking R&P steering unit. Replacing the R&P was easily more than the worth of the car. Dumped in leak-stop AT fluid for the R&P. Washed and dried the rugs after dumping in leak-stop antifreeze. Drove quickly to a Mitsubishi dealer and traded for a new Galant.

The Mazda I like, and I figured to keep it, with nothing other than this oil leaking business to complain about -- at least so far. What is it with these fluids? Where is the technology that allows metal pieces to be joined together and not leak the vital fluids held inside?? You'd think they could do this by now. I do not get it . . .
FM Former Member
Kelly, I thought about you this morning on my way to work. I got an indicator light on the Mighty Fightin' Golf that told me I was about to be crushed by a falling Soyuz capsule.

Turns out, it was the 2.Slow's way of telling me I hadn't tightened my gas cap to the second click.

Still, it looks funny.

(Never mind the other amber light. It doesn't mean anything, 'cept that my catalytic converter is on vacation.)

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El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
I had the CEL - loose gas cap thing a while back, on a Camry, i think. Freaked me out as car was nearly new and all I had was a CEL, no other input. Went to the dealer, had the codes read, situation explained, secured the gas cap, light reset, and that was that. at least your icon is very instructive -- even I could noodle that one out. if you secure the cap, does the light go out, or do you need a reset at th edealer? the entire fuel system is imagined to be sealed for emission requirements, and so the cap must be tight in order for that to be so.

Your real problem here? The number displayed toward the lower right corner, something like 92,000 -- that might explain a lot.
I Inter911
Thomas, know what you mean. Our 2003 Passat V6 4-motion is a POS. That car has leaked oil from the time we got it. I took it to a dealer and was told no warranty, even though it was bought from another VW dealer who said there was an extended warranty with the used VW program (car was only 18 months old when bought..selling dealer did not submit warranty papers I was told) So far, in just under 60,000 kms of driving (40,000 miles) I have spent close to $7,000 in repairs trying to get all the leaks fixed and it still leaks. It leaks oil over the exhaust and heat shields and the smell of raw gas is very strong any time it is driven when its cold out. Its had five recalls one of which was to replace the driver's side heated seat switch...heated seat worked fine before the "fix" but has never worked since. The AC does not work, the tiptronic does not work, it leaks oil like a sieve, check engine light is always on, etc, etc. I would never buy another VW.

On the other hand, the MB E320 wagon I got to replace the VW POS has not been without its issues (air springs) however, in 50,000 kms I've spent $3,500 to repair everything the dealer could find wrong and the car drives and operates like new. I'm halfway through a trip in Canada that will be about 15,000 kms and no problems whatsoever. I'd hesitate to take the VW to the corner store for fear of something major happening.
JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
You are dealing with incompetent dealer mechanics then. The gas smell issue is a common known issue,and there is a TSB for it,and the oil leaks on the valve cover gaskets are a very simple albeit expensive repair.
The gaskets & cam chain tensioner seals have to be replaced that is all.
For me it has enabled me to enjoy the good life,I want to thank all the VW/Audi engineers for my windfall!! Haha,just kidding!
I Inter911
Tensioner seals have been replaced twice in 30,000 kms, valve covers, etc also all done...still leaks. Can only get that gas smell to occur when its cold out, then you can see gas vapour coming up from under the hood like a cloud. For a long time I though it was from a green garbage bag blowing under the car as I was driving and getting wrapped around the exhaust. That caused burning plastic smell that took a long time to locate and burn off.

I'll try to find someone else now that I've moved. Or just dump it into the canal.
Lane AndersonLane AndersonMt. Pleasant, SC Supporting Member
I'm beginning to think that BMWs are the most reliable German cars - unless you get the high-spec, high dollar ones. My first one ('96 318ti) had a couple of trim bits needing repair in the first year or so. At 100k miles I needed a new catalytic converter, but the rest was normal wear items like tires and brakes. The new one (stripped '11 128) hasn't been back for anything yet in the first 8k miles and has free maintenance for the first 50k.

On the other hand, my '04 Acura needed a whole new A/C system at 70k, to the tune of ~$4k. Luckily I bitched 'em down to $1500, but I no longer hold the Japanese auto makers in particularly high esteem.

Haven't seen an oil leak of any kind in ANY new car I've ever owned - no matter how long I kept it.

Oh Gawd! Have I just jinxed myself?
I Inter911
I usually buy used, one or two years out. I like German cars so have gravitated to them. I looked at Audis but IMO they are too close to their cousins, VW. I looked at BMWs but all too often what I see is boy racers beating the crap out of their BMWs or posers who haven't got a clue on what it takes to maintain a quality car. That brought me to MB in the first place. In Europe MBs are often known as old folks cars. My first one (other than a 190SL way back..) was an 83 300SD purchased in the spring of 1986 with 50,000 kms on the clock. Was owned by an elderly couple who spent some of the year in Calgary, AB and rest in Calif. The rear seats had never been used, it came with mounted snow tires that had never been used, never smoked in, complete maintenance records....the car looked, smelled and drove like brand new. I still have that car with now over 500,000 kms and I wouldn't hesitate to drive it cross country at a moments's notice. IMO those 300SD's, the inline 5 cars, were amoung the best cars ever built bar none.

And then I bought the Passat. Completely different story.

The 300 SD was not without its problems. Driving any car up here in Yellowknife is not without its problems. However, I could get that car started right down to minus 52 one day. Most parts for a 300SD are actually pretty cheap when compared to Asian cars or even some American cars. Shocks were a bit dear and those gas shocks are no good whatsoever at minus 40. You hit one bump and bang, you hear the shock give way and the car bottom out. Yep, I'd love to have gotten a 300TD instead of the E320 wagon.
FM Former Member
Brian: Wow $7k for oil leaks? They must love to see you coming! Dealerships are the worst, never take your car there, unless it's under warranty. That's why I fix them myself. I detailed the oil issue before, you need to go to passatworld.com. Follow this link and you can find solutions to problems, both common and uncommon: http://www.passatworld.com/forums/61-b5-information-base/

Here is a pic of the cam seal plug, goes on the back of the cylinder head directly above the exhaust. Remove with screwdriver and hammer. After cleaning the hole with brake clean and drying, goop the new plug up a little with black hi-temp rtv, and install. You want it to seal, so put some on, but not too much. VERY IMPORTANT: Do not start or drive the car for 24 hours. If you do, it will leak! That is why it is never fixed! Total cost, less than $10!

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FM Former Member
I bought an Equus scan tool back in 2006, it was about 85 or 90 bucks, keep it in the glovebox. I have used it on my cars, friends, relatives, co-workers etc. Worth it's weight in gold. Yes it even reads the new CAN codes, plus all cars from 1996 up. Resets too. Money well spent. Autozone reads codes for free also. Fixed a friends F150 bad spark plug, a co-workers fuel injector, my O2 sensor, my sisters 4cyl Passat misfire, etc.......

Cory, my Passat has a catalyst efficiency code on the driver's side. 160K on the clock, so I know converters are in my very near future.

2001 Passat V6 4motion wagon, it needs brakes soon and converters, but other than a couple of cam seals($3 each), exhaust sleeves($16 each) and oil changes, I haven't put a dime in it in the year I've had it. Oh yeah, flushed the clogged heater core, MEGA heat now. It was ten years old when I bought it! In other words, it's used, not new.
I Inter911
160K and no cam belt change? Really? At 90,000 kms my cam belt was crap. I changed it myself, not a big deal, maybe 3-4 hours. However, I did not change the tensioner. Big mistake!

$7K was a bunch of stuff...tensioner seals twice, cam belt (second time..see above), tie rods, etc. A bunch of stuff. Lots of various seals on the drivetrain. Like I said, it leaked everywhere. At the front by the engine, trans and wheels and a lot at the rear, both under the diff and by both wheels. Basically many seals had to be replaced.

Brakes not included in the $7K as I did them myself. Rears wear out faster than fronts on these cars. Original front rotors had a very unusual wear patterm, kind of like the surface was chewed up.

I think one of the biggest problems for me up here was that VW did not make a provision for a block heater. They claimed the car would start without one down to at least minus 35. Bull! After a couple of years of trying everything including placing a Herman Nelson at the front of the car with a tarp tented over it I finally bought a lower rad hose and spliced in a collant heater. VW dealer refused to do anything to help the problem as nolthing was scantioned by VW. Car started down to minus 40 then, as long as the interior was heated. Ignition switch will not engage starter when temps get down to minus 20 or so unless the interior is heated.

On the other hand, my E320 starts at minus 45 without being plugged in. All you do is turn the key to the engage starter position and let go, the car does the rest. It cranks over as long as it take (seconds at most) adjusts the gas, etc and starts up each and every time. You don't even have to get in to start it. That said, I do plug it in cause its not good to start at such low temps otherwise.
JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
Watchout for the new "BM-trouble-yous",they are having major high pressure fuel system issues,which out of warranty are 1000's of $$.
They are also having the typical German electronic control module issues and are getting so bad that people are actually "buying Audis" now since the BMW's are "just as bad" now.
Mercedes has been having major quality issues as well,and have seriously lost their "top spot" as best German car,the worst ones were supposedly when they merged with Chrysler and cheapened up their products. Now that Chrysler is out of the picture,they are getting their foot back in the door and making supposedly "better" cars tahn the Chrysler era ones.
JamesBondSilverJamesBondSilver
Also,Cory your Golf is a entirely different animal than the Passat. I will admit that the passat has some of the most issues o any car I have worked on! What is funny is that tyhe Audi A4 which shares lots of parts and is almost the same car,is less problem prone but does have its own issues.
My rule of thumb is;
1. NEVER buy ANY German car with a auto transmission that has over 60-70K miles on it,and if you don service the trans IMMEDIATELY.
2.DO NOT BUY ANY AUDI with a CVT transmission!!!
3.Stay away from the 02-04 3.0l Audi and any Audi V8's!!!
4.All the VW/Audi models are "oil burners" except the V6 & inline 5 cylinders.
5.If you want RELIABLE motoring,albeit boring,pickup a Toyota Camry.
people ask me "how come you work on only VW's/Audis,and not Toyotas? I said "Have yo ever seen the Maytag man commercial?"
El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
Thomas,

I think my sequence was Audi, Audi, (both used) Mitsu Galant, Camry (both new) Galant was very fine until about 90K mi. and then started smoking. It ended up at the local FD, as I recall. By far, the Camry was/is the best of these. Sold it to a freind (I know you are not supposed to do that if you value the friendship) but had no qualms. He's up to about 250K now, I think.

Meanwhile, The Mazda is not leaking or stinking of burnt oil, but one exhaust pipe joint is not quite sealed properly, and will have to be fixed. I tended to new brake pads plus new front rotors this week end, and while that job took me at least 2X what I was thinking in terms of time, it went well enough. I have done several such jobs on several diff. cars, and all are unique, for some reason. Piston, pad, caliper -- how tough does it have to be? In the case of the front of the Mazda, you need to be a Swiss watchmaker with four hands in order to get all the little bits (esp'y the little spring clips) all set in position and not falling apart while you replace the assy to the car. By a stroke of devine intervention (or so it seemed) about 1 hour before I was to tackle all of that delicate reassembly on my own, Cory calls looking for something to do on a Sunday afternoon. So he gets here about the time I need him. Between us we noodle out how to defy gravity and have all the parts stay in one place long enough to put it back together. We decided that four hands were not quite enough -- five would be the right number. Or maybe just the right tool, or maybe having done it already about 20 times. Anyway, the car stops as it should now, no pulsing of the peedal, and no eminent risk of stopping w/ metal on metal. That sort of stopping works, but not well and not for long -- you may not ask how I know . . .
El FrazooEl Frazoo Supporting Member
Just a short PS: Seems as if when reassembling the parts, an exhaust flange was either misaligned, or they forgot the gasket that goes in there. anyway, there was a small pfft-pfft-pffft audible at this joint and obviously leaking. Very easy to spot and get to. They were all apologetic and had me in and out on while-U-wait in about 15 mins. Also fixed a couple of warranty recalls on the car. This job may be done now. So the beater is back in service, and now I can boogie on over to Cory's and get the Speedster tuned up for spring . . .
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