I too have thought Knoxville would be a good place to move if my wife follows through with her occasional threat to divorce me.
I thought of this thread yesterday as I was working on the new yard, but all that was in the Kabota bucket was 72 degrees of sunshine.
If anyone thinks that is so wonderful, come visit in June when we think it’s not too bad out with the mercury sitting at 110…it isn’t hot until it’s 116+ in the shade.
Moved to Loudon Tennessee (30 minutes from downtown Knoxville) eight years ago after 40 years living in Florida. Sold a 1400sq ft house for $270,000 and bought a 3200sq ft house on a golf course for $360,000. I pay less for property tax, home and car insurance and gasoline than Florida hurricane insurance. Wish I had done it 30 years ago. Homes are selling like hotcakes mostly to East and West coasters. If you're thinking about coming better hurry my latest home value estimate is $640,000 and I have realtors calling me begging me to sell. Oh yeah, we a had snow last week which lasted about a day, I'll admit it is cold in the morning, but days hit the 50s and the golfers are wearing long pants. Even starting to say Y'all 
@Stan Galat, I think you might need to go back to that area (maybe not Knoxville proper) with someone who knows the area. There are some beautiful spots in eastern TN. There are also some beautiful spots in western NC and north GA. We're going to settle in one of those.
@Lane Anderson posted:@Stan Galat, I think you might need to go back to that area (maybe not Knoxville proper) with someone who knows the area. There are some beautiful spots in eastern TN. There are also some beautiful spots in western NC and north GA. We're going to settle in one of those.
Every pot has a lid, Lane.
I found Knoxville to be WAY too far from the mountains (like Denver), with almost none of the NC vibe we enjoyed so much in every place we've ever been on the other side of the line. The closer we got the the line, the more strange it got. Pigeon Forge, was like an amusement park vomited all over the town. I'm sure there are really nice parts of Knoxville and the surrounding areas. It had none of the Andy Griffeth, Mayberry RFD vibe I like about the small towns of NC/GA.
Pity the taxes are so much higher in NC.
Regardless, I'm much more likely to stay put and just vacation to nicer climates than to buy a place in the mountains.
Stan:
You must not have visited Friendsville or Loudon, much like Mayberry with ice cream parlors and about 3 traffic lights at the most. Gatlinburg and Pidgeon Forge is like visiting Disney World and saying Florida is nothing but an amusement park with a few alligators. Try the driving any of the back roads around where I live and you'll see Confederate Flags, American and Missing Man flags all flying freely. You may have missed driving over to Mt Airy, NC the town Mayberry was fashioned after. Sit in Floyd's barber shop or just walk along the village square. Just saying.....
Each to there own. Just depends on what floats your boat. Obviously I love college towns. I’m going to retire in Charlottesville. All the youth, vitality, culture, sporting events. I’m a huge NCAA sports fan. Knoxville doesn’t match Charlottesville in the cosmopolitan factor. The concentration of restaurants, shopping, breweries, vineyards in and around Charlottesville is pretty much unmatched on the east coast. My wife would never give up Charlottesville for Knoxville but there is no comparison in the cost of living. I’m just saying if I was starting the search without already being spoiled by the allure of Virginia I’d certainly look at Tennessee.
Yeah, I clearly didn't do it the right way. What you've got sounds ideal, Nolan.
While spending the month of March in Florida we'll be "looking" at senior communities in the Ocala FL. area i.e horse country with real trees, seasons and away from the Hurricane LZ's. The key word is looking'
Alan, before you buy check and see if your area is considered to be in a Hurricane or flood zone. Home insurance is a bitch to get if you're in these zones. Eight years ago near Ft Lauderdale we were paying $4000 a year for Hurricane insurance and $600 for flood all for a 1400 sq foot home. I had Geico when Hurricane Andrew hit Miami, they along with hundreds of other insurance companies fled Florida leaving the State run Citizen's company and a few others to cover homeowners. Florida, otherwise is a great state to live, the only reason why we left of the cost of insurance.
None of you'se guys should be looking in the New England area, for sure. My realtor daughter just posted on FB yesterday that Eastern Massachusetts is second only to the San Francisco Bay area in the astronomical price of housing. High Tech is slowly trying to move more and more out of the area, but they've been trying to do that for 40 years and it's still concentrated here. Anna tells us that homes that she's been watching have risen in asking price about $100K in the past year alone they are ALWAYS offered at least 10% OVER the asking price in bidding wars. Her average time on market before offer acceptance is about three days. That's about the rate that Atlantic Coast Florida homes were rising when we were looking there in the 1990's. That's how we ended up in Beaufort, SC - Same house for $300K less than Florida, less populated area and total cost of living there was cheaper, even with flood insurance.
And to Nolan's point, earlier, we bought our Beaufort, SC around 2004 for $310K, right on the banks of the Broad River with astounding views. It was a 2-story with 3,200 sq. ft. and 1-1/2 acre lot with one close-ish neighbor at the end of a long peninsula with water on three sides. We dumped maybe $20K into it and quickly sold it after 8 years for $350K. Zillo tells us it's now worth $640K.
@Nolan posted:Alan, before you buy check and see if your area is considered to be in a Hurricane or flood zone. Home insurance is a bitch to get if you're in these zones. Eight years ago near Ft Lauderdale we were paying $4000 a year for Hurricane insurance and $600 for flood all for a 1400 sq foot home. I had Geico when Hurricane Andrew hit Miami, they along with hundreds of other insurance companies fled Florida leaving the State run Citizen's company and a few others to cover homeowners. Florida, otherwise is a great state to live, the only reason why we left of the cost of insurance.
Exactly why we would only consider north central Florida, ( between Leesburg - Mount Dora & Gainsville) Storm history wise that area is not within the usual hurricane paths and if it were to flood there the entire state would be under water first.
Alan. I used to drive through that area a lot on the way to FL Gator football games in Gainesville. Lived in Lakeland for 10 years. It’s a beautiful area much different from the coastal areas. Rolling hills. You even get a taste of 4 seasons. No wind or flood insurance.
Okay. Enough.
Will you guys stop talking about warm places to live. 
-8 F coming this week...
@Bob: IM S6 posted:Okay. Enough.
Will you guys stop talking about warm places to live.
-8 F coming this week...
I don't have to tell you, Bob - but you're comfortably retired. Just roll with it. Throw anther log on the fire, scratch the dog's ear, and watch the world fight it.
We've been in the deep freeze for 2 weeks. Every time we pop up to 30*, the bottom drops out again.
It is what it is.
@Gordon Nichols posted:we bought our Beaufort, SC around 2004 for $310K, right on the banks of the Broad River with astounding views. It was a 2-story with 3,200 sq. ft. and 1-1/2 acre lot with one close-ish neighbor at the end of a long peninsula with water on three sides. We dumped maybe $20K into it and quickly sold it after 8 years for $350K. Zillo tells us it's now worth $640K.
If stuff continues the way we're going, everything with 4 walls is going to cost $640K+.
We'll all be MILLIONAIRES!!
If stuff continues the way we're going, everything with 4 walls is going to cost $640K+.
We'll all be MILLIONAIRES!!
Perhaps on paper but we'll still need to reside within those four walls ....somewhere.
Dr. Bob wrote: "
Okay. Enough.
Will you guys stop talking about warm places to live.
-8 F coming this week..."
I feel for yah. 1:25 PM on Tuesday and it's all of 12F with a windchill of -5F in central Massachusetts. 
It sucks.
@Stan Galat posted:If stuff continues the way we're going, everything with 4 walls is going to cost $640K+.
We'll all be MILLIONAIRES!!
Yeah, and $1M won't be able to buy a decent Speedster replica.
@Bob: IM S6 posted:Okay. Enough.
Will you guys stop talking about warm places to live.
-8 F coming this week...
Yeah that is about what we have here as well Bob, Florida looks good to me right now, gee any sun would help.
update it is ZERO Fahrenheit
When my daughter bought a house near San Jose she bid $900,000 over the asking price and she wasn't the high bidder. Now it is a thing to write a letter to the seller and they liked her letter so they sold it to her.
@Gordon Nichols posted:Dr. Bob wrote: "
Okay. Enough.
Will you guys stop talking about warm places to live.
-8 F coming this week..."
I feel for yah. 1:25 PM on Tuesday and it's all of 12F with a windchill of -5F in central Massachusetts.
That's what "Global Warming" gets you! 
@Michael McKelvey posted:When my daughter bought a house near San Jose she bid $900,000 over the asking price and she wasn't the high bidder. Now it is a thing to write a letter to the seller and they liked her letter so they sold it to her.
Now that’s a First World Problem!
@Napa Paul posted:That's what "Global Warming" gets you!
Yep. Global warming does give you cold periods in winter, but fewer of them.
Alan, you found one of the best spots in Florida with Mt Dora. At the nosebleed elevation of 45 feet, it's a great place to settle. We looked there many times but decided on Tennessee. Wasn't sure about medical access though, at our age that's a must. Top Of The World, Florida is another area said to be out of the hurricane zone with nearby Hospitals but the mention of "sink holes' kinda put a damper on it.
@Michael McKelvey posted:When my daughter bought a house near San Jose she bid $900,000 over the asking price and she wasn't the high bidder. Now it is a thing to write a letter to the seller and they liked her letter so they sold it to her.
When we purchased our house in 2014 (in the Bay Area) it was standard practice then to bid over the asking amount and include a letter. Our letter included photographs of our family and puppy. Houses varied from being on the market between 4 days and 10 days. Things have slowed down in the urban centers of the Bay Area (except San Jose), but the suburbs have seen a huge boom since Covid.
@Lane Anderson posted:Yeah, and $1M won't be able to buy a decent Speedster replica.
I believe that was my point.
Insanity:
Average Toronto home prices across the GTA increased to $1,157,849 for December 2021. One year ago, the average Toronto home price was $932,222 ...
That's AVERAGE, as in includes condos, townhouses, crappier areas, fixer uppers and knockdowns. Hell, they're knocking down the crappy million dollar stuff in decent neighborhoods and building 4M homes. New homes in farmers fields are 2M
@Michael McKelvey posted:When my daughter bought a house near San Jose she bid $900,000 over the asking price and she wasn't the high bidder. Now it is a thing to write a letter to the seller and they liked her letter so they sold it to her.
There is so very much about these two sentences to digest:
- Your daughter bid nine HUNDRED THOUSAND dollars OVER the asking price on a house.
- Somebody outbid her.
- The seller read a letter from a bidder, detailing why they should sell her (the not-high bidder) the house.
- She got the house when somebody else was offering more money.
- None of this made the newspaper or hit the AP wire.
I know everybody is different, but I'm extremely sentimental about the places we've lived. I've fallen asleep maybe 50% of my life floating on a wave of memories of my grandpa's farm house. I can still smell the wood burning in the fireplace of the home I grew up in. I vividly remember the first home Jeanie and I lived in as a couple (off the grid, in the Southern Highlands of Papua New Guinea). I can draw you a floorplan of the duplex we moved out of when I was 2 years old (mom doubted that - then I did it).
In my life, I've been blessed to have been able to design and build (like, "actually drove the nails") two big, nice homes which we've then lived in. I took bare ground and a bunch of ideas, and massaged them into something interesting, aesthetically pleasing, and functional. When I was designing the place we're in now, I slept about 8 hrs total over the course of 5 consecutive days, because I couldn't shut it off. The ideas kept coming in waves. I lost 10 lbs. I was making calculations while I brushed my teeth. I drew over 40 different plans, from scratch. I'd sleep for an hour, dream about an elevation change, and then get up and start another print.
I'd sit in front of the monitor, moving a wall 3" or a staircase to the other end of the building. It's an intensely personal process, and there are a lot of obstacles along the way - including a lot of people with the power to stop the project who may lack the vision to see what it can (and will) be, if they just get out of the way.
You'll never see another place like either of them - and there's a ton of "me" wrapped up in them. Simple, purposeful, functional, interesting - with zero (and I mean ZERO) wasted space. Michael is an architect - I'm sure he understands how much of your personality ends up in the things you design.
... but I can tell you without any hesitation that when it came time to sell the first one, and when it comes time to sell the one I'm in now - there's only one story I want to hear, and that's how they buyer is going to close the deal without any caveats, stipulations, contingencies, or additional approvals. How there isn't going to be a bunch of "inspection related wish-lists" or home-warranty nonsense. The story that would move me to tears is how you came to be in a position to buy this as-is, where-is, for cash.
People get really weird about their houses. "Home" is where your people are. A house is what you live in, no matter how much of yourself is wrapped up there.
I know it sounds horribly mercenary, and incredibly cold, but when it comes time to sell, what I'll really want is for the buyer to
"Show me the money".
My wife grew up on 80 acre farm 45 miles inland from Gulf of MX in FL. We have 12 acres of that property - I wanted to "have built" a log cabin there. Wife says "if you are going to live/move to FL then you have to have view of the water". We are planning a trip to look at new Margaritaville over 55 community near Panama City. Still in past hurricane path of recent Michael. I keep saying they are only every 100 years - but that's Jack Daniels speaking. It is a little inland though - 15 minutes to coast (bummer). It does have lakes (for gators), intercoastal waterway, and a kayak canal.
Latitude Margaritaville - Watersound | New Homes for Sale in Florida | 55+ Community
Currently in a concrete/steel post-stressed 5 story condo .05 miles on water with barrier island protected intercoastal waterway. I can clearly see Gulf (with big container ships) over the barrier island. Our dock was destroyed by recent Sally which wasn't project to cause us harm (they changed their mind at 1030 pm) - $140k to rebuild. 4 boats and 4 jet skis also totaled. It's a popular retirement area for retired military with AF Eglin/Tyndall/Hurlburt here and AF/Navy west to Pensacola. (Those with full military disability pay NO property tax).
Greg:
We went to Margaritaville in Watersound about a month ago. You enter a lottery for a home. Nice homes, part of a massive planned community here on the Emerald Coast.
*my niece just sold her crappy entry level townhouse, built in a farmer's field, staring at more development for the next 6 years, busy road, 10X20 back yard for $1.02 million. Bought it for 700 2 years ago....
Our home is worth (worth must be defined as "would sell for") about 10X what we paid for it 25 years ago and after a number of renos/additions. I never dreamed I would own a home worth half that. I agree with Stan that I'd like every penny of what it's worth when we eventually sell in perhaps 5 years but I'd look at a close 2nd offer for the right people. This is a very unique property, 110 years old, edge of town but no neighbors in sight, hundreds of mature trees, 150 ft dry stone fence, 20 ft natural waterfall, beautiful gardens. You have to love the property and the peace that comes with it as much as the house because you can buy bigger on less property with no trees for the same money.
I think we're just the 4th owners and I'd take a bit less from the right couple to be honest. I feel like I owe it to this place to help with the next custodians.
I should say I don't believe we'll ever see the kind of price appreciation again that we've seen in the last 5 years. Incomes haven't come close to keeping up and they sure wouldn't again with another leap.
As a realtor I would suggest that you not rely on the value estimates of off the market homes by any of the listing services like Zillow (the worst IMHO), Realtor.com, etc.
They are often basing their estimates on incorrect data and their algorithms are not very good. They don't do a good job of eliminating sold listings from their lists in a timely fashion.
Listed homes, well, they get that data straight from the local MLS'. That data comes from the listing agent, so you are at their mercy. Usually the data is pretty accurate with the exception of condition. One man's palace is another man's dump.
The market remains flooded with buyers and lacking in listings in many markets. Ours included.
The homey, "aren't we a lovely family" letters directed at sellers can work. We have had it happen.
The list price is no longer aspirational in many cases. It's the floor for bidding.
Best advice:
Be quick to bid, usually with a day or two of the property being available.
If you are financing, have a pre-approval letter from alocal lender.
Include an escalation clause that says you will beat any other bidders price by $XXX up to some maximum you are comfortable with.
Don't be surprised if a property doesn't appraise if the price has run up to the stratosphere. Make certain your realtor has language in the contract that releases you from it or allows for a negotiated price, but still allows you to walk away and get your Earnest Money Deposit back.
Normally, have your own agent if you are the buyer. In many places the listing agent's loyalty is to the seller.
And please, interview at least a couple of realtors and determine their level of experience, professional designations beyond basic realtor, number of transactions listed and/or sold in your price range, (They should be able to provide you with a list from the MLS service showing what they have done in the previous year, at least), years in the business and make certain they have successfully managed transactions in the neighborhood you are interested in.
The bar to become a realtor is relatively low in most states. Becoming truly successful is a whole other thing.
What we have seen here often, is the listing realtor will take the top 3-5 offers, no matter how far above the listing price or how far above the rest one of them might be and infirm each of them that they have multiple close offers and are sending it back to them for a "best and final" from each of them. 3 or 4 of those 5 will up their bids, sometimes substantially because they are finally so close....it's just the standard modus operandi now.
Horror stories of people finding out their bid was tens of thousands over the next one; people who have missed out on a dozen homes previously are desperate and leave common sense at the door. Starter townhouse rentals are $3000 a month now
I was with you until you got to the "starter townhouse rentals are $3000/mo now".
Around here, the rule of thumb is that a monthly rental should be about 1/100 the value of the property - so if that townhouse is a $300K property, then the rent is about right.
But from the figures you've been throwing out, I'd suspect they are worth more, which makes the rent cheap (at least in relation to the value of the real estate).
All of this is starting to make my SoCal neighbors a bit less head-scratching.
Those $3000 rentals are $900,000 townhouses so I guess that's a bargain then? 
Rental prices have escalated with housing values but no one could pay $6000 a month, never mind $9000 in the ratio you've suggested. I live in a relatively small town but minutes away from 1M, 150,000, 150,000, 800,000, 1M populations all touching each other. There are currently two houses for sale here under $1,000,000 and one of them is a quad
It was 16 F with small snow squalls blowing in off the Bay on Tuesday. Mostly bare ground. 45 F today. We're about a 1/4 mile from the beach and I would NOT want to be any closer. I know several cottages closer to the shore that sold for 1M + and got bulldozed . McMansions springing up all over the place that are mostly un-occupied for 6 months at a time. Some of the houses we pass on our walk through the neighborhood, are almost never used as far as I can tell. If we sold ours , it would meet the blade as well, except for the post and beam 2 car garage.
We've spent several years in warm places during the winter months. Some of them are still there. We found 4 places in the "back country " of the Florida Keys that were as good as you can get. We could have our boat on the dock in front of the house. Two of them are still there ,two were just gone. Hurricanes are a bitch.
We get hurricanes here too but usually not as severe as down south or the mid-Atlantic. The winters aren't bad and a six inch snow storm melts in a week or less. If you don't mind it being REALLY quiet for 6 months at a time, and really busy for the other 6, it's a great place to live. I know some people who need the city or want snow, but this works for me.
We're in the process of having a boat built that will become a live aboard camper and we can avoid a lot if the summer insanity of the busy months.
@Al Gallo I found out recently that Hot Rod Ron, my buddy from high school, who also has a place in Dennisport, has a boat very similar to what you're getting - a Mini-Lobster trawler. IIRC he keeps it somewhere near the Bass River Marina. He used to have a weekender 35+ footer over in Westport but downsized the boat when he got the place in D'Port.
BTW: You're one of the few on here who visited us in Beaufort - The guy who bought our place in Beaufort had a 650' long dock installed out across the plough mud to the river and bought the empty lots on either side of the house. I guess a retired plastic surgeon from Atlanta can afford something like that.
Wow , Gordo! It was pretty close to the water, but a 650 ft. dock must have cost hundreds of dollars !! We have a mooring, as you know, from our old commercial days. Around here , an environmentalist is someone who already has a dock. It takes VERY deep pockets to get a dock. 650 Feet! Ha!! Not here , which is ok.