O'Black - the 275 BHP Porsche engine weighs a lot more and screws up the weight distribution. It may work fine for a straight line acceleration car but probably is awful on a road racing course.
Paul - the 550 and 550A Spyders had roughly the same wheelbase and treads as our replicas and used swing axle trans with tiny bias-ply tires and drum brakes. A new IM with IRS, 4 wheel disk brakes, radial tires, stronger rear torsion bars, 19mm front/rea anti-sway bars, better shocks, less unsprung weight, and rack and pinion steering should be safe at speed - the only fly in the ointment is aerodynamics (front end lift at high speed).
I also rebuild 911 engines.
Starting price for a bone stocker is 10,000.00 and thats the normal price range. Doing pretty much anything to the internals cost another 5K easily. Its not hard to spend 20-25K on a 911 Performance engine.
Starting price for a bone stocker is 10,000.00 and thats the normal price range. Doing pretty much anything to the internals cost another 5K easily. Its not hard to spend 20-25K on a 911 Performance engine.
A set of six new 911 Mahle nicasil pistons/cylinders can run up to $3,800 (but they can last up to 250,000 miles). Labor for a total 911 rebuild doing it the right way is probably around 40 hours if you're lucky at $80 per hour, but 60 hours isn't unheard of.
And stock rod bolts and head studs whould be replaced with RaceWare items, etc. Like Jake says, it can get expensive...
And stock rod bolts and head studs whould be replaced with RaceWare items, etc. Like Jake says, it can get expensive...
We finally agreed on something.
So.........a Nikisil equipped TIV will alos last 250K.......Hmmn
So.........a Nikisil equipped TIV will alos last 250K.......Hmmn
Jake, I've seen Porsche 911s with Mahle nicasils that had over 200,000 miles and were still running strong. These were the later engines with vastly improved valve guide materials and the "Carrera" chain tensioners. Of course they've had frequent oil and filter changes, haven't breen overheated, and haven't been diven abusively.
Nicasils can also be very lightly honed (special honing process) and used with new pistons.
I have no idea what the nicasil layer thickness is on Shad's nicasil cylinders - it may be thinner than Mahle uses. The later Mahle nicasils are also tapered for better ring sealing and piston fit at operating temperatures (assembly P/C clearance at room temp of around .0015"). The close tolerances make for less piston "rocking" and thus less piston and ring wear.
Nicasils can also be very lightly honed (special honing process) and used with new pistons.
I have no idea what the nicasil layer thickness is on Shad's nicasil cylinders - it may be thinner than Mahle uses. The later Mahle nicasils are also tapered for better ring sealing and piston fit at operating temperatures (assembly P/C clearance at room temp of around .0015"). The close tolerances make for less piston "rocking" and thus less piston and ring wear.
US Chrome does the plating on the Nickies. The plating is exacting the specifications used on the Porsche sets that they recondition.
Ron, it's not a good idea to store your smokes in the engine compartment....keep them in your shirt pocket. I knew that my comment about a 911 motor being a better choice would get George or Jake going. I'm no longer 'Ron' to George. Now I'm 'O'Black'. At least I got you two to agree on something.
Jim, I agree with you about not exceeding 65 in a VW single cab pickup....especially when it's windy! But, up to 65...look out. There is a guy around town, with an older BMW 325, who found out the hard way.
Ron
Jim, I agree with you about not exceeding 65 in a VW single cab pickup....especially when it's windy! But, up to 65...look out. There is a guy around town, with an older BMW 325, who found out the hard way.
Ron
Ron, the guy in the bimmer probably went home and opened a vein.
ed
ed
Let me post a correction- US Chrome does not plate out Nickies. Millennium Technologies does, and they back their plating with a lifetime warranty, regardless of miles. With regards to the thickess of the plating, it can't be done too thick or too thin- too thin, and Millennium wouldn't offer a lifetime warr :-) Too thick, and it flakes and is worthless. Just fyi...
Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance
Charles Navarro
LN Engineering
www.LNengineering.com
Aircooled Precision Performance
Hey Ron O. - I used "O'Black" because there were two Ron's posting, which is different from one hand clapping...
Sorry, just going on what Shad told me some time back......
Well, George and Jake are both right about one other thing- you either want performance or you don't, and they apparently make the rest of the car live up to the engine, performance-wise. But...how about safety? Modern 200 hp Porsches come with collapsing steering columns, crumple zones, air bags, roll bars, etc. These lightweight "rocket-ships" on wheels you guys are building meet or beat modern street competition, except if something goes wrong...I suppose it can be argued that you're dead hi-performance AND less-performance Speedsters, so you might as well die happy??
GB...your car accepted, the majority of replicas are not engineered to accept a big ol' 911 engine. Henry may stuff a couple in his cars from time to time, and I don't care what all that hyperbole was you you spewed, too much engine, wrong configuration, not worth it at most any speed... hence my concern for 911 installs even though I think they would look terrifficc and of late turbo-charged Subies. That Subie is a world class rally car and again too much engine for a replica speedster, unless as someone said you just want to go fast in a straight line and hang on... Then why not get a mid-seventies ChevyII, stuff a big ol' corveete motor in it and go to Friday nite drags, eh Queenie?
I'm banking on my car's newer overall 'technology' too, but within reason; wallet and enjoyment!
Feeling a bit stuffy,
MM
I'm banking on my car's newer overall 'technology' too, but within reason; wallet and enjoyment!
Feeling a bit stuffy,
MM
When Henry "stuffs" a 911 engine into his speedsters he uses a different frame that is built for the added weight. This different frame allows him to use 911 front suspension and rear suspension. Another thing he does is extend the wheelbase about 3inches. He does not just increase the wheelbase, he lengthens the speedster body. It is not noticable until you look at the position of the torsion bar hole.
Dale, that's why I'm getting the parts together for one of Dean Polopolus's 911-4 engines; it fits a standard IM with no modifications and weighs about the same as a stroker type 1 VW engine that has dual carbs, a bolt on sump, etc.
With the 76.4mm Porsche 964 stroke and aftermarket Mahle 102mm nicasil pistons/cylinders it will displace 2,500cc (a tad more than my original displacement 1973 2.4 liter 911 "T" Targa) and make more torque and BHP than the 2.4 did. The "T" was rated 145 BHP DIN and we should make about 225 with the Weber carb'd, dual ignition 911-4.
With the 76.4mm Porsche 964 stroke and aftermarket Mahle 102mm nicasil pistons/cylinders it will displace 2,500cc (a tad more than my original displacement 1973 2.4 liter 911 "T" Targa) and make more torque and BHP than the 2.4 did. The "T" was rated 145 BHP DIN and we should make about 225 with the Weber carb'd, dual ignition 911-4.
George, I like your "popolopolus" engine, sounds great! Would if I could. A neighbor drove his 89 911 by the house while I was outside last night and the sound of the cams/chain/exhaust was real music. I almost called Henry and told him to build me a 911 car. I could save you a few bucks on delivery of your car, have it shipped to me in Sacramento and I can drive it back to MD. It is only about 800$ to deliver here. Should I call Henry and set it up? Then I could meet your _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _!
I can certainly understand those with the cash and desire for pushing the performance envelope and wanting the best. Amen. The practical side of me says, but how much power does someone need in a street driven car that weighs 1700 lbs.? And of course in the pursuit of faster is badder is the knowledge that sure as the world when you buy the hottest engine around the engine guru's will be working on an new engine package that will leave your's sucking exhaust.
I love reading about the latest and greatest developments with aircooled engines. And if I ever do wrap out a non-paying project I have been working on the past five years I am aiming to help the economy down in Cleveland, GA, though with a modest engine package.
I love reading about the latest and greatest developments with aircooled engines. And if I ever do wrap out a non-paying project I have been working on the past five years I am aiming to help the economy down in Cleveland, GA, though with a modest engine package.
So it seems once again I stand corrected...at least when Henry 'stuffs' a 911 engine in a replica he uses a biigggger basis and such. Thanks for the update Dale...maybe a speedster limo is in the offing?
GB if you build one Poppolopolous 911-4 (that abbreviation just don't sit right) why not build three while you're at it, looks as if you'd have some takers.
MM
GB if you build one Poppolopolous 911-4 (that abbreviation just don't sit right) why not build three while you're at it, looks as if you'd have some takers.
MM
Just pausing for a question......Is this the worlds lngest thread yet ? If not , I think we can do it.
Gclarke
Gclarke
it is threads like this that make the post reply down below a nice future option....lol
Hey George....Thanks buddy. Seems that you helped me sell TWO engines on this post!! and one is going to good Ole Paul!!!!!
So Jake, since you are selling some engines here... how about ponying up a few bucks and become a sponsor here? What goes around...
Jeez,Jake...Can't you keep a secret!
Now my East Coast travel adventures will be so transparent.
MM
Now my East Coast travel adventures will be so transparent.
MM
Soooo, it seems that Paul DOES want more power.
Ron
p.s. T4s are the way to go...now, how about heat?
(Message Edited 10/3/2003 6:03:25 PM)
Ron
p.s. T4s are the way to go...now, how about heat?
(Message Edited 10/3/2003 6:03:25 PM)
What did you go with Paul?
Well, reading some posts elsewhere on the forum regarding present day comforts, I'll be sacrificing the present heat set up and look toward other options later...For now if I feel a chill blain I'll just hop out of the car (OK lumber or roll out) and place my hands near the exhaust pipe.
Also along the lines of other posters elsewhere, I too lean toward the purist side of the replica spectrum and my desire for power increases will remain Germanic.
Not to downplay our new supporting sponsor's efforts with his Subie-powered product, I think that option will open the doors and will be 'just right' for yet another type of speedster affectionutto!
Same, same for the guys with the money and where-with-all to 'stuff' six cylinder fire under their hoods; my hat's off to them and my heart goes out to the pending widows! My really, really fast (not torquey) days are behind me for the most part and as I have said elsewhere, when I feel the need for excessive 'oh my Gawd'speed, I'll trot out the 911.
I've asked Jake to configure a Type 4 with as many bells and whistles as I can afford. I trust him to put together all the innards and the outardzzz requisite to a successful build. I will get a parts list I'm sure so I can see what my pedigree is, but I will be unable to quote them as readily as some folks on this forum... I like that tech stuff, but I need to save my remaining grey folds (brains) for other matters and being able to assimilate H-beam doo-fligitzzz are not my focus, nor are any measurements not found on a 25' Stanley tape measure.
My only serious request and the one point that Jake understands only too well, is that his product, in my car will smoke George Brown's new Carrera any damn day of the week.
MM
Also along the lines of other posters elsewhere, I too lean toward the purist side of the replica spectrum and my desire for power increases will remain Germanic.
Not to downplay our new supporting sponsor's efforts with his Subie-powered product, I think that option will open the doors and will be 'just right' for yet another type of speedster affectionutto!
Same, same for the guys with the money and where-with-all to 'stuff' six cylinder fire under their hoods; my hat's off to them and my heart goes out to the pending widows! My really, really fast (not torquey) days are behind me for the most part and as I have said elsewhere, when I feel the need for excessive 'oh my Gawd'speed, I'll trot out the 911.
I've asked Jake to configure a Type 4 with as many bells and whistles as I can afford. I trust him to put together all the innards and the outardzzz requisite to a successful build. I will get a parts list I'm sure so I can see what my pedigree is, but I will be unable to quote them as readily as some folks on this forum... I like that tech stuff, but I need to save my remaining grey folds (brains) for other matters and being able to assimilate H-beam doo-fligitzzz are not my focus, nor are any measurements not found on a 25' Stanley tape measure.
My only serious request and the one point that Jake understands only too well, is that his product, in my car will smoke George Brown's new Carrera any damn day of the week.
MM
Paul .. What kind of trans are you going to use with Jake's T4?
That's the one thing I have not upgraded yet, but plan on
doing next year.
Bob in Tenn.
That's the one thing I have not upgraded yet, but plan on
doing next year.
Bob in Tenn.
"What did you go with Paul?" Ron, you been smoking the funny stuff again? Hey, did you hear that our prime minister may try some "weed", if we decriminalize it? Maybe then, when he talks I'll be able to understand him.
Far out, dude
Ron
Far out, dude
Ron
Obviously he went with a type IV Raby engine Ron. What I wanted to know was what size engine he chose.
Are you one of those trouble makers I've been hearing about Ron?
(Message Edited 10/5/2003 12:17:57 PM)
Are you one of those trouble makers I've been hearing about Ron?
(Message Edited 10/5/2003 12:17:57 PM)
Hey Paul, which engine are you gonna smoke - my 215 BHP 2,387 type 1 or my 240 BHP 2,500cc 911-4? if you're getting some mojo BHP and torque you had better do some serious upgrading of your transaxle or it may die a horrible death.
Look Gang! There's Gonna Be A Rumble Between The Sharks and Jets!
(apologies to Lennie Bernstein)
Paul:
The T-4 Jets are gonna have their day
Tonight.
George:
The T-1 Sharks are gonna have their way
Tonight.
All :
The SpeedsterOwner's Forum and Theron grumble: "Fair fight."
But if they start a rumble,
We'll rumble 'em right.
George:
We're gonna hand 'em a surprise
Tonight.
Paul & the Type IV JETS:
We're gonna cut 'em down to size
Tonight.
George & the Type 1 SHARKS
We said, "O.K., no rumpus,
No tricks."
But just in case they jump us,
We're ready to mix
Tonight.
ALL
We're gonna rock it tonight,
We're gonna jazz it up and have us an aircooled ball!
They're gonna get it tonight;
The more they turn it on the harder they'll fall!
Paul AND T-4 JETS
Well, they began it!
George AND T-1 SHARKS
Well, they began it!
ALL
And we're the ones to stop 'em once and for all, at the aircooled ball,
Tonight!
Raby:
George's gonna get his kicks
Tonight.
We'll have our private little mix
Tonight.
He'll walk in hot and tired,
So what?
Don't matter if he's tired,
As long as he's hot
Tonight!
Downs:
Tonight, tonight,
Won't be just any night,
Tonight there will be no morning star.
Tonight, tonight, I'll see my Dyno tonight.
And for us, stars will stop where they are.
Today
The minutes seem like hours,
The hours go so slowly,
And still the sky is light . . .
Oh RPMs, spin free,
And make this endless day endless night!
Paul:
I'm counting on you to be there
Tonight.
When Raby wins it fair and square
Tonight.
That West Coast punk'll
Go down.
And when he's hollered "George"
We'll tear up the town!
(Paul, Raby, and a T-4 sing simultaneously)
Paul:
So I can count on you, boy?
Raby
All right.
Paul:
We're gonna have us an aircooled ball.
Raby:
All right.
Paul:
Womb to tomb! I mean Room to tune.
Raby:
Sperm to worm! I mean squirm that T-1 worm.
Paul:
I'll see you there about eight.
Raby:
Tonight . . . ?
George and Pat Downs:
Tonight, tonight
Won't be just any night,
Tonight there will be no need for 4th gear,
(T-4s, T-1s, George, Paul, and Raby/downs (duet) sing simultaneously)
T-4s
We're gonna rock it tonight!
They're gonna get it tonight,
They began it,
They began it,
The began it.
We'll stop 'em once and for all.
The T-4s are gonna have their way,
The T-4s are gonna have their day,
We're gonna torque it tonight.
Tonight!
T-1s
We're gonna rev it tonight!
Tonight!
They began it,
And we're the ones to stop 'em once and for all!
The T-1s are gonna have their way,
The T-1s are gonna have their day.
We're gonna rev it up tonight.
Tonight!
Downs and George:
Tonight, tonight,
Late tonight,
We're gonna fix it tonight.
George's gonna have his day,
George's gonna have his day,
CB's gonna have it's way
Tonight, tonight,
Tonight, this very night,
We're gonna rev it up tonight!
Raby:
Tonight, tonight,
I'll see my love, my Massive T4 tonight.
And for us, stars will stop where they are.
Raby AND Paul:
Today the minutes seem like hours.
The hours go so slowly,
And still the T4 is king.
Oh moon, moon me,
And make this endless day endless night,
ALL
Tonight!
(Message Edited 10/6/2003 10:26:27 AM)
(apologies to Lennie Bernstein)
Paul:
The T-4 Jets are gonna have their day
Tonight.
George:
The T-1 Sharks are gonna have their way
Tonight.
All :
The SpeedsterOwner's Forum and Theron grumble: "Fair fight."
But if they start a rumble,
We'll rumble 'em right.
George:
We're gonna hand 'em a surprise
Tonight.
Paul & the Type IV JETS:
We're gonna cut 'em down to size
Tonight.
George & the Type 1 SHARKS
We said, "O.K., no rumpus,
No tricks."
But just in case they jump us,
We're ready to mix
Tonight.
ALL
We're gonna rock it tonight,
We're gonna jazz it up and have us an aircooled ball!
They're gonna get it tonight;
The more they turn it on the harder they'll fall!
Paul AND T-4 JETS
Well, they began it!
George AND T-1 SHARKS
Well, they began it!
ALL
And we're the ones to stop 'em once and for all, at the aircooled ball,
Tonight!
Raby:
George's gonna get his kicks
Tonight.
We'll have our private little mix
Tonight.
He'll walk in hot and tired,
So what?
Don't matter if he's tired,
As long as he's hot
Tonight!
Downs:
Tonight, tonight,
Won't be just any night,
Tonight there will be no morning star.
Tonight, tonight, I'll see my Dyno tonight.
And for us, stars will stop where they are.
Today
The minutes seem like hours,
The hours go so slowly,
And still the sky is light . . .
Oh RPMs, spin free,
And make this endless day endless night!
Paul:
I'm counting on you to be there
Tonight.
When Raby wins it fair and square
Tonight.
That West Coast punk'll
Go down.
And when he's hollered "George"
We'll tear up the town!
(Paul, Raby, and a T-4 sing simultaneously)
Paul:
So I can count on you, boy?
Raby
All right.
Paul:
We're gonna have us an aircooled ball.
Raby:
All right.
Paul:
Womb to tomb! I mean Room to tune.
Raby:
Sperm to worm! I mean squirm that T-1 worm.
Paul:
I'll see you there about eight.
Raby:
Tonight . . . ?
George and Pat Downs:
Tonight, tonight
Won't be just any night,
Tonight there will be no need for 4th gear,
(T-4s, T-1s, George, Paul, and Raby/downs (duet) sing simultaneously)
T-4s
We're gonna rock it tonight!
They're gonna get it tonight,
They began it,
They began it,
The began it.
We'll stop 'em once and for all.
The T-4s are gonna have their way,
The T-4s are gonna have their day,
We're gonna torque it tonight.
Tonight!
T-1s
We're gonna rev it tonight!
Tonight!
They began it,
And we're the ones to stop 'em once and for all!
The T-1s are gonna have their way,
The T-1s are gonna have their day.
We're gonna rev it up tonight.
Tonight!
Downs and George:
Tonight, tonight,
Late tonight,
We're gonna fix it tonight.
George's gonna have his day,
George's gonna have his day,
CB's gonna have it's way
Tonight, tonight,
Tonight, this very night,
We're gonna rev it up tonight!
Raby:
Tonight, tonight,
I'll see my love, my Massive T4 tonight.
And for us, stars will stop where they are.
Raby AND Paul:
Today the minutes seem like hours.
The hours go so slowly,
And still the T4 is king.
Oh moon, moon me,
And make this endless day endless night,
ALL
Tonight!
(Message Edited 10/6/2003 10:26:27 AM)
LOL...Nice job Jim, your a real whack-o....
GOOD GRIEF !!!!!!!
Jim, have they changed your medication? :o)
In all seriousness, all things being equal (or nearly so), the 2,387 type 1 with KP stage 2 clutch and selected ratios LSD 901 5-speed should shut down a big type 4 engined replica with a VW 4-speed trans.
Once my car is broken in I'll get and post a 1/4 mile timeslip. Then anybody that wants to compare times is welcome to do so.
In all seriousness, all things being equal (or nearly so), the 2,387 type 1 with KP stage 2 clutch and selected ratios LSD 901 5-speed should shut down a big type 4 engined replica with a VW 4-speed trans.
Once my car is broken in I'll get and post a 1/4 mile timeslip. Then anybody that wants to compare times is welcome to do so.
Has Pat been able to dyno your engine yet George? Post the print-out.
Erik, I don't have the 2,387 type 1 numbers yet, probably in the next day or so.
The 911 engine guys I know are estimating about 240 BHP at around 7,000 RPM for my 2,500cc 911-4 engine, and 210 ft lbs. of torque at around 5,500 RPM - that should be a real KICK IN THE PANTS.
At least the 911 cooling system for the 911-4 will be on a 911 based engine...:o)
The 911 engine guys I know are estimating about 240 BHP at around 7,000 RPM for my 2,500cc 911-4 engine, and 210 ft lbs. of torque at around 5,500 RPM - that should be a real KICK IN THE PANTS.
At least the 911 cooling system for the 911-4 will be on a 911 based engine...:o)
Now that took some effort...
Pauls engine is just a Normal old 2316 TIV. I figured thats all he needed.....
Pauls engine is just a Normal old 2316 TIV. I figured thats all he needed.....
Jake, you might explain to the forum that a 2,316cc type 4 engine is not "normal", just as my 2,387cc type 1 isn't "normal". Both are a bit larger than stock.
Jim, ole buddy, you got entirely too much time on your hands. Very funny post my man. BTW, did you ever have a side job writing for MAD magazine? Are you currently or have you ever been a subscriber to that rag? Good job!
John H.
no ducks to kick today
John H.
no ducks to kick today
Jim, Thank you soooo much!
I was tryin' to think of something clever for ol' George, but 'nuff said... I'm still wonderin' if there really is a George Brown and an infamous Carrera replica goin on...let alone two engines!!!
MM
I was tryin' to think of something clever for ol' George, but 'nuff said... I'm still wonderin' if there really is a George Brown and an infamous Carrera replica goin on...let alone two engines!!!
MM