Skip to main content

Well, first let me say Happy Father's DAy to all!

Second, Tom Dewalt, thank you for your hospitality and a nice place to work.

Third, thanks to BillD, Rocky, and AlanM who shared in this endeavor.

And to all else who will contribute in the future.

Let me start by saying first that there is NO WAY(ZERO chance!) the motor problems are Tom's fault.

We have a bit of work to do. We started with a dry/wet compression check. All cylinders were within 5 lbs. of each other, wet and dry. Tom has the readings written down, along with LOTS of photos of PROOF.

So we figure the oil(wet plug #2 and blue smoke which gets worse on warmup) has got to be a valve seal and/or guide. So we pull the engine, mount it to the stand, and start to tear it down. We pull the 1-2 head, and find some VERY interesting stuff. A malfunctioning and/or improperly installed circlip on the number two cylinder got ingested down the cylinder wall. Pieces were found in the sump. After the circlip failed, the piston pin started to rub on the cylinder wall, gouging out a NICE BIG piston pin width gouge down the exhaust side of the cylinder wall. Another small piece of the circlip went through the pin and back out the other side of the piston. It left a small gouge in the piston, but that side of the cylinder wall looked ok. However, the number two rod bearing didn't fare well as all the extra heat from the piston traveled down the rod to the bearing. After less than 3k miles, that rod bearing looked like it had done 100,000 miles in a sand rail. Lots of scoring and about half the bearing worn through to the copper. I will "mic" this at the next session but it may be moot as I think a new crank is in order. The #2 rod journal looks buggered, but could possibly be ground, I don't know yet. Personally, I would replace all the reciprocating parts in the engine, crank, rods, pistons and cylinders. The rod bearings were all worn and and too sloppy for my taste. Again, I will go back and reassemble and measure everyting, but I didn't because I would just replace it all as it is questionable. And new bearings of course. Main bearings look not bad, but with all the filings in the engine, I would replace all those parts. Clean the case halves thoroughly, and reassemble. The cam and lifters are fine, heads are fine, just need decarbonization(is that a word?). The rocker shafts had WAY TOO much sideplay, .016" minimum, and will have to be reshimmed. Pushrods also were fine. It was late and I was tired, didn't think to look at the oil pump gears.

So this is my list of parts needed to make this thing right:

Case sealant, loctite, rtv type sealer for cylinder bases etc.
New Pistons and cylinders
New Crank and bearings
New Rods and bearings(or rebush the rods he has, as they are nice H-beam)
Engine gasket set, flywheel seal
Pushrod tubes
Intake and exhaust gaskets
New brass exhaust nuts

Tom, post your pictures and comments, we're all waiting(except those that saw already)!

I am not pointing fingers or being mean about this, these are the facts, as the pics will prove: THIS WAS NOT Tom's FAULT!





Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

Well, first let me say Happy Father's DAy to all!

Second, Tom Dewalt, thank you for your hospitality and a nice place to work.

Third, thanks to BillD, Rocky, and AlanM who shared in this endeavor.

And to all else who will contribute in the future.

Let me start by saying first that there is NO WAY(ZERO chance!) the motor problems are Tom's fault.

We have a bit of work to do. We started with a dry/wet compression check. All cylinders were within 5 lbs. of each other, wet and dry. Tom has the readings written down, along with LOTS of photos of PROOF.

So we figure the oil(wet plug #2 and blue smoke which gets worse on warmup) has got to be a valve seal and/or guide. So we pull the engine, mount it to the stand, and start to tear it down. We pull the 1-2 head, and find some VERY interesting stuff. A malfunctioning and/or improperly installed circlip on the number two cylinder got ingested down the cylinder wall. Pieces were found in the sump. After the circlip failed, the piston pin started to rub on the cylinder wall, gouging out a NICE BIG piston pin width gouge down the exhaust side of the cylinder wall. Another small piece of the circlip went through the pin and back out the other side of the piston. It left a small gouge in the piston, but that side of the cylinder wall looked ok. However, the number two rod bearing didn't fare well as all the extra heat from the piston traveled down the rod to the bearing. After less than 3k miles, that rod bearing looked like it had done 100,000 miles in a sand rail. Lots of scoring and about half the bearing worn through to the copper. I will "mic" this at the next session but it may be moot as I think a new crank is in order. The #2 rod journal looks buggered, but could possibly be ground, I don't know yet. Personally, I would replace all the reciprocating parts in the engine, crank, rods, pistons and cylinders. The rod bearings were all worn and and too sloppy for my taste. Again, I will go back and reassemble and measure everyting, but I didn't because I would just replace it all as it is questionable. And new bearings of course. Main bearings look not bad, but with all the filings in the engine, I would replace all those parts. Clean the case halves thoroughly, and reassemble. The cam and lifters are fine, heads are fine, just need decarbonization(is that a word?). The rocker shafts had WAY TOO much sideplay, .016" minimum, and will have to be reshimmed. Pushrods also were fine. It was late and I was tired, didn't think to look at the oil pump gears.

So this is my list of parts needed to make this thing right:

Case sealant, loctite, rtv type sealer for cylinder bases etc.
New Pistons and cylinders
New Crank and bearings
New Rods and bearings(or rebush the rods he has, as they are nice H-beam)
Engine gasket set, flywheel seal
Pushrod tubes
Intake and exhaust gaskets
New brass exhaust nuts

Tom, post your pictures and comments, we're all waiting(except those that saw already)!

I am not pointing fingers or being mean about this, these are the facts, as the pics will prove: THIS WAS NOT Tom's FAULT!





This is what the broken or misapplied clip did to the Cyl wall.
As this is the first time I've worked on the car, I gotta say that there is a good bit of work to be done. Not only engine related buy tidying up whats there already. Some simple stuff some not so simple. But it can (and will) eventually get finished.

~WB

Attachments

Images (1)
  • jug
Just going by CB Performance, it looks like about $800 for crank, rods, pistons and jugs. $50 or so for an oil pump, and less than that for gaskets, seals, and sealant. I personally think the intake/exhaust ports are too small for a 2332, but I doubt larger heads will be in the works, serious coin then! Maybe send them to Headflow Masters w/the manifolds for a port and polish? Valves are the right size already, 44 X 37mm.

Does anybody expect JPS to send parts? If they did, I know Tom would be VERY pleased, and it is the right thing to do. Now I wouldn't expect anything else after that, as assembly is MY job, and once the parts are here, well, responsibility lies on my shoulders to get it together right. We'll keep everyone up to date as it goes.

BTW, I really do enjoy working on these things, and fixing stuff. And doing something you like with the Carlisle Crew is priceless.
Sorry about the pics guys. I have to retake some of the photos. I forgot my camera yesterday and had to use one in the shop I was not familiar with. Taking the Canon XTi over later to reshoot many of the close up views of the piston, cylinder, crank and so on. I think maybe Bill and Rocky got better close ups than I did. They promised to forward them as well.
Danny - Happy Fathers Day back to you. Just got a call from my daughter, so that made my day. Danny, you seem to know what you are doing with this project. I have a feeling it will be right when you're done. I know you said you like doing this stuff, but it is very commendable that you and others are taking the time to make it happen. Here's to ya!
Wow, this is really impressive to read about. Both the camaraderie and the engineering. Score one for the Internet and community building.

If I can make a suggestion, perhaps all this work can be summarized in to a post-delivery check list that can be done on JPS and other cars. Or, ideally, be incorporated in to the work done along the way in the shop.

So many offers always pop up to stop by and check on projects in progress, it would be great to be able to have a "check for these 10 things while you're there" list.

-Jeff
Engine bulit by GEM in California.

Got this fro JPS last week. Just a bit late, but helpful in our current endeavors:

2332cc VW Based engine
Compression ratio 8 to 1
New CB All Aluminum Case full flowed for external oil filter,
84 mm Counter weighted and balanced Forged CB Nitrited Crank,
94 bore Mahle barrels and pistons.
CB Rods are Forged H-Beam
Engle FK 87 Cam,
SCAT Lifters Hardened chromoly push rods
Rockers SCAT solid shaft 1:1 with swivel feet or equivalent
CB Ported 044 heads 44 X 37 Valves. Ported & polished
Valves are set at .002 now but must be reset after 100 to 150 miles to .001.
30 MM oil pump
44 Dual Webers 175 air 135 main jets 55 idle jets
CB linkage and maniflds.

009 Bosche distributor Electronic ignition
Timing is 28 at 3200 RPM's advanced.
4340 Chromoly Lightened Flywheel, 200MM KEP Clutch, and Cover.
Bosche W8AC or NGK comparable

Initial driving should be light with varing RPM's and no constant Highway mileage the first 150 miles.

At 150 miles change the oil and adjust the valves
Oil filter is Phram PH2870A
.Oil is 30 weight winter 40 weight summer and no multigrades.
Air filters are washable type at 10,000 miles and re-oil.
At 3000 to 3500 miles an oil change and valve adjustment must be performed. Then oil every 3/3000 valves 6000 miles
Valve settings, at cold .001

Break in period is 3000 miles.

Chromoly pushrods can get set with zero clearance. That's what I've been doing for 11000 miles(at Jake's instruction). These are set ice cold, ie before startup after it sits overnight. As the engine warms, the case, cylinders and heads expand more than the chromoly pushrods. The valves gain clearance after the engine warms totally. If they're set right the engine is really quiet for the first couple minutes. Then you hear a little valvetrain noise, and you know you have clearance.

You do it by putting a finger on the pushrod and spinning it while you screw in the adjuster. If it spins with any resistance or won't spin at all, they're too tight.

BTW, I love not needing a feeler gauge to adjust my valves!
Hot diggity damn. You guys are off to the races!
I'm glad Tom has finally decided to carve his initials into that coupe.
Danny et al, great stuff; this goes a long way in improving our sense of community, I think.
Has anybody firmed up the next series of dates? Teresa and I will be back in Maryland and available for jobs on the car after the fourth of July week.
I know it's easy to sit back and mash buttons on this site, but you're really coming through tangibly for Tom -- and proving that this really IS a car club.
Bravo!

Attachments

Images (1)
  • 020208 Tom Kelly Bill
I wonder if they might not have stopped at the scored cylinder and not checked further and found the bearing and crank damage.

Boy was I ever WRONG in saying that it might be better to give 'em one last chance at fixing the coupe . . . SO sorry for coming in on that side of the suggestion see-saw ! ! ! !

Things are finally working out great.

Luck!

TC
just out of curiosity - how did you not hear that piston pin scapping the side of the cylinder? Looking at the damage - that would have been LOUD.

Man - if you lived close to me - i'd be in there like a dirty shirt. I love wrenchin and trouble shootin.

Glad to see you are getting it fixed.

Also - Terry, i've done a lot of reading on TS and apparently "zero loose" is a pretty common way to adjust vavles in the T1
surprise, surprise . . . . JPS response:

"On first impression everyone here concludes the piston pin broke from an over revved engine.
The engine builder will still stand behind his work this time.
I know the tach was not working but you have had a new replacement in your hands for 6 months."

ALWAYS someone else at fault. Imagine if I sent it back. Think I would even know what was actually up? NOT!

Yeah, but the piston pin didn't break. The CIRCLIP did either 1) pop out because it was defective, or 2) not installed correctly.

Hopefully Tom will get some new parts soon and we can get the engine together. Then get back to joking around, driving our cars, and hoisting a few.
Danny just rang me to ask a detailed question...

And I gave him a good answer.. :-)

all I want to know is why a component that hasn't been upgraded since the original 40 HP VW engine would be used in a performance engine? Even stock engines have had failures just like this one and that has even happened to me.

And yes, there is a proper and improper method of installing a stock style circlip and I outlined that to Danny. I have installed those stock clips with my fingers before, thats how weak they are.

I commend you guys for getting the engine back together!


Just to keep it straight,the piston (wrist) pin did not break. The circlip that holds the wrist pin in place DID. Could have been a weak or bent clip, or one that just didn't snap into place for what ever reason. Who knows? I don't, John S., Tom, Dick or Danny don't. But it's ultimately a builder problem along with some of the out of spec end/side play measurements we found, especially for an engine with hardly 3000 miles on it. Sure these engines aren't rocket science, but there are tolerances that still must be met.
There was nothing clattering when running so the broken pin wouldn't have been heard. Heck, that cylinder had good compression numbers. Even a leak down test would not have caught it as the piston and rings were above the damage at TDC, preventing it from leaking.

I will say that when we get the new parts and assemble it, it will be we hope, better and tighter than ever. The intake ports looked sorta small to me given the large valves, so that may be looked at and addressed too.
Not to worry, we'll just fix it. Easy Peasy!

~WB
I dunno if you guys remember the clip breaking in my 2366 last year, but the 2424 that resulted was a relatively inexpensive fix. I'd have stuck with the 103.5s if I could have bought just one, but that ain't happening these days.
It did sound like a drunken leprechaun was inside the cylinder with a ball-peen hammer, though. I took it off the road until Sartwell and I had time to take it apart. It was lucky I did, or that could have been big trouble later on.
Good catch, guys.

Attachments

Images (3)
  • 092806 XXV Number two piston
  • 022607 103s in block
  • 022607 104s and bearings
wrt Green Coupe motor: All damaged parts to be replaced -duh!- and all parts in good shape being kept -smart-. These engines from GEM are supposed to be "fully blue-printed", by which I guess all reciprocating parts are balanced to a fraction of a gram. I am sure the ECBT (East Coast Brain Trust) is going to rebalance everything, right? Tom is going to want an engine that will do 6 grand easy. and the business about large valves and small ports is troublesome, as in "How come?" Why don't you get larger ports w/ larger valves? If the ECBD can figure a way to improve the porting, seems that would be a very cool improvement.

Keep it coming guys. And please post up (or PM) date of next work session in Easton. I'll come if I can. I am supposing the engine work is waiting parts. But how about the body stuff?
A lot more than just balancing is required for (common terminology) a "full blue print" job.

By the way, the term "blue printing" is often mis-used.

It actually means that the engine is built per factory specifications as per the original engine blue prints.

In this case, the factory never built a large displacement engine.

The other but not correct meaning is balancing, plastigage on the bearings, proper clearancing, knocking down all sharp edges etc etc etc.


A lot of things come into play regarding port size. Ports larger than the valve size don't necessarily allow more fuel to enter the engine. Matching ports and intake manifolds does help.


In regards to the engine specifications. If whom ever ordered the engine didn't specify large valves and ported runners, then you get what you get.

If, it was ordered with large valves and porting then the engine wasn't delivered as promised.

If the rods are still good or just require sizing then they probably don't need to be balanced.

If 4 pistons and cylinders are obtained then the pistons can easily be balanced prior to delivery or, after delivery.

If the crank needs to be turned, it too probably doesn't need balancing but, if a new crank is ordered then the flywheel, crank and clutch need to be balanced as a unit.

If possible, the crank pulley ""should"" be balanced but in most cases, it's impossible as there isn't enough metal to remove for a proper balance job.
Post Content
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×