The preferred gas treatment of Street Rodders

You get to bring this kind of thing into the house and put it on the kitchen table yet? Lucky guy.

Frank, I'm betting that empty wine glass has something to do with Gordon getting away with this.

Good info Gordon. I'm going to try this in in all three old cars! Maybe even the snow blower!

Turning gas into gunk, Phase separation and its effects on our friends, the internal combustion engine.

http://nationalpetroleum.net/E...Separation-facts.pdf

http://www.businessweek.com/li...w20090514_058678.htm

Sounds like good stuff. My opinion? No clogs for me but I drive my car a LOT more often than most. Probably the constant fresh fuel helps.

I use Stabil(well did!) for storage but this looks to be a good year to switch.

Yeah, I'm going to use it too.  I've heard this same info from about 4 guys in the last 2 weeks. I tried this stuff last season on advise from my marine mechanic friend and it seemed to work.  I guess you have no real way of knowing unless you develop an issue with your carbs, which I have not as yet. The only thing that I don't like is the bottle.  The Sta-bil bottle has a little measuring deal on it to make dosing easier. Maybe I'll use the empty  Sta-bil bottle as a container for the Star Brite as I do for my 2 stroke oil.

I'll be the Devil's advocate here.  A friend and air-cooled VW guy I know recommended this stuff to me.  My car always seemed to run worse after putting it in the tank.  Not sure why, but that's my experience.

I haven't used the Star Brite yet, and I don't use Stabil regularly, just for winter storage.

But what Gordon describes is exactly what happens. You end up with white goo in the float bowls, after the water and alcohol and gasoline are gone. A big mess of white goo. And at that point it is just a matter of time before a jet clogs, no matter what carbs you are running. The key is not to let the car sit unused. How often do the hotrod experts drive their cars? Once a week, once a month? Not often enough my friends.

True.  I am fortunate to live in an area where I can drive the car year-round, if not always comfortably (e.g. August).  I think my occasional clogging issues are related more to crap in the gas when I get it than from sitting around.

Lane:

The info I gleaned from that Veeder Root article tells me that it's a chemical reaction which causes the sludge ALL THE TIME and the vehicle doesn't have to be sitting to have your jets clog up.  The crystalline structure will simply build up over time in the jets, and the mini-layer of gunk in the float bowl will, too.  Most of the time the bowl contents will get slowly flushed out, especially if you spend a few hours on a turnpike to maximize flow through the bowl (kinda sounds like a toilet there, doesn't it?)  

This slow, partial build up might explain why it is sometimes possible to clear an idle jet clog by blipping the throttle and slamming your hand over the carb throat, thereby sucking the crud through and clearing the jet.  The same sometimes happens by really getting on the throttle out of a stop sign or light - same effect, just less vacuum than the hand trick.

Granted, some drivers seem to have more trouble than others and THAT could be caused simply by getting a fill-up at a particularly shoddy station - one that doesn't check for contaminants or correct them (and there are a bunch of places like that).  Another personal bug-a-boo of mine is that I NEVER fuel up at a station taking delivery of a new load of gas, as the incoming flow from the tanker truck disturbs the various layers of bad stuff in the bottom of the tank and all that gunk ends up in driver's tanks for the next few hours.  

Of course, if the truck just left, how do you know??  Life's a crap shoot.........

I think that the REAL answer is for Congress and the EPA to admit that they've been hoodwinked by the Corn lobby (like THAT'll happen) and do away with what everyone except the Corn lobby says is a stupid thing to do.

Non-Ethanol gas is available in 4 local FL gas stations.  Near everyone uses it for small motors, PWC, outboards, motor cycles and infrequently used vehicles.  Those that don't have constant fuel problems.  Alcohol has its place - in drinks with ice - not vehicles.  Shame the non-ethanol gas is 50 cents more per gallon (but you do get better MPG). Some carry both 87 and 93 octane.

I almost always put ethanol-free gas in the Speedster when I'm at home as there are several places selling it nearby.  I don't have that luxury when I'm on the road, but I hope that burning through it quickly helps.

Perhaps it's because I'm the oldest one here that I ask this but what ever happened to using a dash of Marvel Mystery Oil?

Nothing.

But it won't do a damn thing to help against the effects of alcohol in your gas.

You'd be better off with a can of "Dry Gas".

I started using this this summer http://www.sta-bil360.com 

I stumbled upon a station 25-30 min from me that has pure gas including 110 Octane; the first time I saw it I freaked a bit because they only had the 110 and 87.  I called the President of Stanistan and he said it should be fine just mix the two to be sure.  The Car likes it a lot.

Our cars fuel systems for the most are not closed loop so the attraction of moisture happens all the time and is exacerbated by the warm and cold zone in the fuel tank.

This video shows the effects of this condensation over a very short time of exposure to air.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeCyFxoWPpo

I envy anyone who has access to ethenol free gasoline.

Connecticut has TWO ethanol free gasoline sources...They're both Marinas...duh!

I sure as hell hope this Star Tron Enzyme is the magic elixir 'cause I just paid $39.89 (NAPA) for it...double duh! 

how much gas does that treat?

The bottle I showed a picture of says: "Treats 128 Gallons"

Carl:  did you get the "Big" bottle (treats 256 gallons)?  

I just priced the 128 gallon bottle at NAPA Online at $29.99

C U at Lime Rock tomorrow???????????????

Carl, have you tried the Google (no dirty pictures allowed).... one site listed 5 sources in CT ??? 

Yes we are lucky, there are dozens in Washington State.

I notice the distinct separation of oil and vinegar in a clear glass salad dressing bottle that's been sitting for awhile...

And I wonder if anyone has thought of a way (chemically?) to induce separating the ethanol content out of gasoline?

Yes, but it requires Monosodium glutamate (MSG) and some Rosemary (for aromatics).

I think the problem you're going to have with that, Carl, is that the alcohol is used (in part) as an octane boost and I'll bet if you could separate them, the leftover gas would have a lower octane # than the original formulation.

YES!  THAT'S THE POINT OF THE VEEDER-ROOT ARTICLE!!!!!!!

The alcohol is, in fact, an octane booster (with an octane rating of over 130!!) so instead of the oil companies having to provide gasoline with an octane rating of, say, 87 (something we all know about) they use wicked cheap gas (think Mexican PEMEX gas - THE worst excuse for "gasoline" on the planet), like 75 or 80 octane, and mix it with 10%-15% Alcohol and what do you get??  An 87 Octane mixture that eats up your fuel delivery system!!!!  It's cheaper to produce, PLUS they charge MORE for it!

And we pay for it multiple times!!  When we buy it, and again when we have to fix everything it has screwed up, and then repeat the process every 18-24 months!!!

Aren't "lobbys" wonderful??

And I also think it's wonderful that NASCAR has declared themselves to be a "Green" racing organization because they have gone over to the "Dark Side" and adopted E-15 as the preferred fuel of NASCAR.  And why wouldn't they??  They KNOW exactly what the formulation ratios are because NASCAR fuel is made in "small" batches specifically to NASCAR specs FOR ALL CARS RACING IN THE NASCAR SERIES.  They START with 89 Octane gasoline and then add enough alcohol to it to make it 110 octane (or higher - how do we know??  It's THEIR formulation!).

Remember what's used in Drag Racing Funny Cars - 100% Alcohol!!  Remember what's used in Indy Cars - 100% Alcohol!!  Alcohol = POWER (not necessarily fuel economy).  An Indy car uses about 2 gallons PER LAP!!  THAT's why Indy car fuel fires are SO dangerous.  Why?  Because alcohol fire is absolutely clear - no flame color.  How do you tell if an indy car is on fire if there is no flame?  Because the car MELTS!  The flame is so hot it eats everything!!  Fiberglass, metal, everything!

But you have to realize what fuel you're going to be dealing with when you design the delivery system to be used with it.  It is REALLY HARD to design a fuel deliver system to deal with BOTH gasoline (fossil based and relatively benign, reactively) and Alcohol (relatively reactive, meaning that it eats most carbon-based compounds.)  The fuel delivery system in ANY of your cars is a compromise system, destined for failure, sometime, if it ever comes in contact with alcohol-corrupted fuels.

Fuel has gotten really crappy in the last several decades. With this new info, I'll need to look at Shell out here in SoCal. 

There are about 3 different concentrations of Star Tron.

The version for small engines uses 1 oz. per 6 gal.

Another version is 1 oz. per 16 gal.

I think there is another even more concentrated version.

One advantage of alcohol is that with it's lower burn temps you can run substantially higher compression ratios, which of course make the engine more efficient (as well as make more power!). In an aircooled VW, lower head temps don't tax the cooling system nearly as much.

I just ordered a quart of Star Tron on eBay for $30.

It will do 512 gallons so is should last a while.

A QUART???

Jeez I paid a bit over 31 dollars for 16 fluid oz!!!

This stuff better work as advertised or I'm going to be ticked.

It pays to shop around. Free shipping too.

I hope the stuff has about a 10 year shelf life.

As I said, it pays to shop around.

It also pays to log in when looking at Amazon.

I looked there first but the free shipping didn't show up because I wasn't logged in to my account.

Thanks for the tip Michael!

10% ethanol will add 2-3 points in octane. 87 octane gas becomes 89, 85 sub-octane gas becomes 87. NASCAR gets 98 octane in Sunoco E15, they're probably starting with 94 octane gas.

Indy cars run methanol, not ethanol. Top Fuel runs nitromethane.

One advantage of alcohol is that with it's lower burn temps you can run substantially higher compression ratios, which of course make the engine more efficient (as well as make more power!). In an aircooled VW, lower head temps don't tax the cooling system nearly as much.

It does burn at about 5% lower temperature, but most of the head temp difference is from alcohol's 2.5 times greater latent heat of vaporization than gasoline, that is, the amount of heat it will absorb before turning to a gas. Same reason water injection is effective, it absorbs heat from the intake charge and combustion chamber and makes the engine less likely to knock, hence you're able to run higher compression and timing (slower burn). Actual combustion temperature isn't particularly important to the head temps, more so for the chemistry of emissions.

Plus, at max power A/F ratios for both, burning alcohol will produce around 25% more BTUs of energy than gasoline. More BTU's means more heat in the engine, which would produce higher head temps if it weren't for the cooling effect mentioned.

Hello All - Has anyone tried using the Seafoam product as an additive in your gastank? http://seafoamsales.com/sea-foam-motor-treatment/I have been using this in my Land Rover and Infinity I30 with pretty good results, and recently (first tank) I added it to the gas tank of my newly acquired IM with a 1766cc/dual 36 Dellorto engine. It is not inexpensive but also not excessively costly. There are numerous benefits listed for its' use including Moisture Control in fuel systems, see list of benefits on the linked page. BTW-I reside in CA and use the care at least 2-3 x a week so the tank gets cycled on a regular basis.

Yes seafoam is good stuff, I put it with every oil change and a little bit in the gas tank at fill up.  I have a 2.2 L Subaru but it really smooths things out.  May want to run the Brad Penn oil if not already doing that in your air-cooled motor.

Thanks for the input Marty -  I have not used seafoam in the oil yet, but may try that based on your success. I just started running 20-50 Weight Kendall motor oil with Liquid Titanium, it's a racing oil with added Zinc in it. Want to see how that runs and how it affects the oil temp before I put any additives in the oil. I do like the seafoam results in the gas tank however. I will check out the Brad Penn oil also, what weight do you run?