Thermostat on Vintage Speedster 1600DP?

Yeah, just install it between the radiator and the intake.

What radiator?

Just kidding. Bored watching the snow and the temperature drop.

Buncha comedians....

 

While possible to do this stuff without removing the engine, it is so easy to pull the engine and then remove/replace the fan shroud it makes much more sense to do that.  You can pull the engine in an hour, do all the shroud work in an hour and replace the engine in an hour.

 

OK, so whatchagottado And what will you need?

 

You'll need the thermostat and its mounting bracket to the engine case, the actuator rod, all four air vanes for inside of the shroud (don't forget to get their keeper springs, washers and keepers), the coupling arms between vanes (goes across the back side of the shroud), and I think that's it.  

 

Pull the fan shroud, install everything, make sure it works OK and smoothly, re-install the shroud while poking the thermostat actuator rod down between the heads while not letting it fall off of the master vane, then screw on the thermostat bellows, then attach the bracket (loosely) then attach the bracket to the engine case, tighten the bellows mounting screw and you're done.

 

While doing all that, make absolutely sure you have ALL of the other engine sheetmetal installed for proper cooling (see a Bentley service manual for what should be there) or all of your work making the fan shroud/thermostat work right will be for naught.

I'd check to see if your fan shroud even the flaps - or capability to support them. Many after market ones don't even have the shaft holes. Might need to replace or modify shroud if it doesn't have holes for flap shafts.

Gordon, comedians are funny, I'm just pathetic.

These guys have what you need.  I used them for my shroud/flap/thermostat install.

 

http://awesomepowdercoat.com/thermostat_flaps.html

Wow!  Cool site, if just for a replacement source for the now unobtanium old thermostats.  

 

REALLY like the powder blue flaps, btw.....

My bus engine is out there right now, getting the full-meal deal.

 

Get out your check-book.

 

Thanks Gordon -always good info.

I put the original sheet metal back on mine (thanks to the advice out here). Bought the flaps and thermostat etc. I'm in Boston and don't plan on much winter driving but wanted all that on there anyway. Too much talk about damage due to improper cooling.

 

Seems that the thermostats were a throw away item for years but now people are realizing they were put there for a reason. If you see them on the Samba you'd better snap them up fast.

A little info on thermostat/flap assemblies- Gene Berg stated (and he usually had the data to back whatever he said up) that engine wear without these pieces was
12-15% more without these parts in southern California. Here in southwestern British Columbia I don't think you get half the life.

I did the install years ago with the engine in the car; I got all the OEM VW shroud, engine sheet metal thermostat, flaps and all miscellaneous parts from classified ads on The Samba. The challenge was tapping and installing the stud on the engine block to mount the thermostat. Even though OEM VW my engine block didn't have it. I believe the old style cylindrical thermo units are hard to find and the newer VW Mexico units are being adapted for use in the older systems.

I wish vw had put the flaps' on the intake side of the fan not the output side, so the oil cooler would not get cold air when warming up, that way it all could warm up at the same time,and a internal passage in the cylinder tins to keep air blowing on the exports all the time as they get hot quickely.oh there I go dreaming of what should of been..... I do use my oil cooler for my heat in my car.I keep it blocked off till there is some heat inthe oil so it heats quicker other wize the oil cooler get cold air all the tyme and takes a lot longer to get oil temp for heet&proper engine temp's.

Like Impala, I installed the thermostat and flaps, plus replaced the 36hp style aftermarket shroud with an original vw shroud. 

 

I think it does help the engine warm up a little bit but it still takes a loooong time for the engine to warm up when it's below freezing.  When it's in the teens you can drive it for 40 minutes and the oil temp dial won't get out of the little green box.  I just avoid putting my foot in it on those days. 

 

I run the 36 type aftermarket shrouds on all my stuff, they cool just fine on y 2332 and my 2028 hear in Fl. I ordered a new one for my 2387 for my 356.I also use the wide fan,Ive seen a few cars with the doggy style shroud but they had the skiny fan. that will cook your motor on hot climates like hear in fl.and possiable in warm ones too. remember the entire cooling system has to be up to the task asked of it. and it was made for how many horse power to cool down????? and we are getting how much horsepower out of them???? I just receved my superflow heads. (probablyfor my 356.) heat is not your friend.but you can control it so it dosent kook nutten that dont need cooked.

I have a 2010 VS with the 1915 engine. I installed the flaps and found a guy who makes new thermostats that opens at 90C. I found that with that size engine and external oil cooler it makes little difference in warm up times in a cold climate. I live at Lake Tahoe and it takes 30 minutes of driving to reach operating temp. Cabin heating is still poor. I am installing the new work around from the heat exchangers to bypass the frame. 

 

Major Kahuna - When you're done with the bypass would you mind posting a separate article on it along with your thoughts about whether it was worth it?  I've thought about it myself but am not sure it would really make for a warmer cabin. 

 

Mahalo!

If your external cooler is just plumbed straight through and doesn't have an oil line thermostat before it (different than the thermostat for the flaps in the shroud), that could be the reason for such long warm-up times. The thermostat/valve assembly opens at about 180'F. so the oil warms up normally to operating temp before starting to pass through the extra cooler.

 

 

"I live at Lake Tahoe and it takes 30 minutes of driving to reach operating temp. Cabin heating is still poor."

 

Well, compared to my trusty '57 VW Oval sedan back in the '70's, that sounds about right.  AT LEAST 30 minutes to "sort-of" warm up (the temp gauge needle is just starting to rise off of the peg) and "cabin heat" was just a suggestion.  And that was with a 1915cc engine with full cooling tins, thermostat, etc, but NO external cooler.

 

If I went from Massachusetts to southern Vermont (2 hour drive at 70-75 mph) in Winter, it never got actually warm in the cabin, and I always had a bit of frost towards the top of the windshield and on the side windows.  If I drove it hard on a turnpike for over an hour it would finally warm up to almost where the temp gauge might be in the early Summer after 15 minutes.

 

Hope this helps.  The only air cooled VW's with anything approaching decent heat all had gas heaters.

And that's why, almost 30 years ago, I gave up on VW's as my main transportation; I got tired of being cold for 6 months at a time!!!

 

It's actually a built-in safety feature.  The fact that the cabin is close to the same temperature as outside helps guarantee that you're dressed appropriately in case of a breakdown.

 

I have a viynel rap that raps compleatly around my ext cooler that I install in november and remove in late march.so the cooler dosent loose heat like it is supposed to do.it does still take a bit to get some oil temp,but much better than when the cooler wasent covered. so if any of you guys have an ext cooler making a rap for it helps a lot,I just use velcro to hold it on. as for alb having more than just a vw.......but....but...oh well.I still only have my bug to drive untill the 356 is finished.and school is closed the next 2 days due to weather.FLORIDA IS FROZEN OVER.WERE CLOSED FOR EVERYTHING.thank you from the sunshine state.

Ted:

 

Thank you for explaining the concept behind the engineering of the heating system. It's good to know that someone was looking out for us.

ALB I thought of the bypass valve already. The engine will get warm faster. Unfortunately that means I get to shitty heat faster and nothing more. I will have the frame bypass installed by next week and will report the result. Yesterday it was 50F here and the heat was OK. The problem is when it stays below freezing. There is just not enough heat to overcome the leaky cabin. Temp is too low and the air volume is insufficient. At hwy speeds the air leaks are too much for the hearter to contribute anything. 

Yeah, Stan Galat pointed that out a few years back - FIRST ya gotta find and plug all of the air leaks into the cabin (and you'll probably find a bunch) and THEN start on getting more heat.  Troy can probably help with that part.

cabin leeks??hmm I would of thought these would be sealed up nice&tight. Im thinking about a sump heater for mine,I have a dipstick heater but havent used it yet.....curently Florida is closed due to frozen roads,bridges&morons.I might need to dig that dip stick heater. Welcome to florida the sunshine state sorry were curently closed due to technical difficulties with the sun beyond our control, thank you and come again

Blame Al Gore, it's global warming.....   Feel the heat????

I blame the cows for farting moothane gass that go's off in the clouds with a lightning strike,thats what thunder realy is(unless it's under the sheets). shitfire fartsparks,save matches.eat moore chicken. live long and prosper..hug your wife&kids daily, put hillery in the big house not the white one. thank every service member you see.

gas heaters are the real solution. I had a 77 VW Westy a few years ago. I put a BA6 belly heater in and in 10F weather I got get to 80F in 5 minutes. If my current project does not do the job a BA4 is going in the Speedster. It appears the best place to mount it is behind the engine. Any thoughts from those of you that have installed one?

 

My heat was rerouted to exit on the rear bulkheads outboard of the seats.  I sacrificed defrost for this, but now my Speedster heats up faster than my DD's.  That's even with the larger heater boxes due to larger exhaust.  Seems like the simplest, cheapest, and safest solution to good heat in a Speedster.

Major (you've got a name, right?)-

 

I've got a modern Espar heater (new 2005). It's mounted under my dashboard, passenger side. This is where Intermeccanica mounts them. I don't want to speak for Carey Hines, but I believe Beck puts them between the engine and the rear of the cabin.

 

It seems like a long way to pipe the hot air to put it behind the engine.

Stan - Is your espar a gasoline model?  They seem hard to find. 

Not that diesel would be that big of a deal - I've read that espar heaters sip fuel so you probably would only need a small container.

 

I love my Espar heater. Modern, safe and more heat than you'll ever need.  It was the only solution for my Type IV as no heat shrouds will fit.  Froze my A$$ off once going through

Flagstaff AZ  in the snow in May and said "never again!!!"  

Stan is correct. Carey does mount the Espar on the shelf right behind the engine. Great heater!!

 

Major's name is 'Kahuna'! 

Duly noted...

Jack, I thought your nickname was "Iron Butt"!!

 

Humping through Flagstaff snow in May sounds romantic...and makes for damn good memories.

Used to live in Flagstaff, May can go either way weatherwise. That's what 8000 plus feet of elevation can do to you.