Thing Gas Heater

Hey all you SOC Techies!

I read somewhere on here that VW Things were shipped with a gas heater as standard equipment.

If that's true, can someone tell me where it's mounted? There may be a Thing in a local junk yard and if it has a heater in there I'll try to grab it.

Thanks, Gordon

Gordon,
Not so...I had a "Thing in the early 70's. No gas heater as standard equipment.

Fred

gordon,

i bought three heaters last year (to play with and eventually fit in speedster),
two bn4's (bus heaters, a little larger) and one bn2 (bug style, trunk mounted) heater.
a little clean up and they work like charms (all 3). they're great, especially the bn2
(the keeper). i know people are afraid of what they don't understand but research
a bit and you'll be very surprised.
they are mostly self contained, add fuel supply to its fuel pump, route a fuel return to
fuel tank, intake air, exhaust air, intake from car for recirculation, heated air duct
to car==done.
and the best part is i paid about $60 for the bn2!!!!!!
go to "thesamba.com" enter gas heaters" and see what you find. there is a guy in CO
that has made a business selling parts and refurbishing these. his prices are higher.
i bought mine from canada.--i really think they are the way to go.
ps.--i know, carbon monoxide detector (that should be for old heater boxes
and new gaspar (sp?) heaters also.

ouch! i just read my last post, sorry it's so choppy. see what happens doing 2/3 things at
a time.

espar heater.

There are a few (very few) used ESPAR's around here, coming from the yachting crowd who decide they want something a little bigger for their boat cabins, but even the used ones are several hundred bucks. I thought that I could wander around the junk yards here in New England (one of my favorite pastimes) and see if I can spot one. Few junk yard folks know what they're worth, and they typically go for $10 to $75 for a reasonably clean one, depending on the yard, and then I would have to refurb it.

Hadn't thought about the busses (and the occasional sedan heater)......I'll keep a look out and also check theSamba and Ebay.

Thanks, gn

the bus heater is on the large side. i'd stick to the sedan (bn2 htr).
if you want a bus heater (bn4) i have two. one is a complete kit.
i paid $60. for the bn2, $75 (plus shipping) for one bn4 and $140 for the other bn4
(shipped), it was said to be "new"

Thanks, Bruce.

Think a BN-2 will fit in the area under/benind the rear seat in a CMC?

I have a different wiper motor assy which sits behind the dash over the passenger's shins, plus a Big Honkin' cross member there, too, so no place to put the heater. If I mount it in the back I can duck the cabin air through the existing heater channels to the front.

Looks like I'll be looking for a BN-2......

Thanks, gn

if you're talking about the seat shelf area a bn4 or 2 will fit fine. i haven'tt yet fitted
mine to the speedster but i was hoping the trunk area would do.

bruce,

i am mostly a lurker on this forum, but i feel obliged to speak up here. i have a VW thing for one. 73 things for the US market all had gas heaters. if the thing has side vent covers (those are from 74) at the rear it does not have a gas heater. if it has only louvers at the rear it has (or would have had) a gas heater. north american things had the last version of the BN4. the BN4 was also used in VW buses from the 60's to 74. The BN2 heater was used in the beetle, ghia and type 3 i believe, from the late 60's into the 70's.

i have a BN2 heater in my hands. it measures 18.5" long and 5" in diameter and is essentially a cylinder with a projection on part of it. the projection is 10" long and the projected area is 7" at the widest.

we have quite a few BN2 heaters at our shop, many of them are in excellent condition. we have lots of bits for heaters, complete units and many hard-to-find spare parts. we are in the process of creating a special gas heater section on our website, but until we do, send me an email if you are interested in aquiring a BN2 and i might be able to help. i am working on a customer's speedster at the moment and i plan to install a BN2, as it is quite compact and the operation of it is simple. you will want to find some of the ductwork for the heater out of a donor vehicle, it might make the install a bit cleaner.

scott lyons
germansupply.com

Scott:

Thanks for the info.......I'll be looking around here in Rhode Island for the next couple of weeks, and if I don't find anything I'll contact you.

Gordon

wolfgang,

just to clarify, the VW 411/412 heater is a BA4, not a BN4. the letter and number combos get very confusing. these are two completely different animals. the BA4 is an excellent heater, but quite complex in its function and system components compared with the BN$ or the BN2. if you use a BA4, for sure you will need to get the entire heater system, relays, fans, ductwork and switches out of donor vehicle. even with the simpler BN2, the ancilliary items are always going to be an issue, the heaters themselves are relatively easy to find.

you are absolutely correct about the shape of the BA4, it lends itself very well to certain types of installations due to its flat shape. it also puts out a lot of heat. that online manual you linked is excellent also.

we have one NOS BA4 heater, but it is nothing but the main heater unit itslef. i also have an NOS webasto heater, which is very similar in design to the BA4. it is also just the heater itself, nothing else.

i have has a few emails about heaters after this posting, so i will get together a list of parts we have available.

thanks,

scott lyons
germansupply.com

I have the espar heater and I don't know how it compares to the BN heaters, but on mine, the exhaust temp is very high. I would think you would not be able to mount it under the seat or in the back. Anywhere near carpet or upholstery would likely start a fire.

Also, they give off a ton of heat so even the smallest heater you can find will be more than sufficient.
Ron

Ron - The BN and BA series gas heaters are made by Eberspacher - more commonly known as Espar. Your new one is probably much safer and more refined than the now 30 year old ones being reused. I once tried a Coleman propane cataytic heater in a '72 VW bus for a ski trip north -- all worked fine til we made a pit stop and someone inadvertently threw their down filled parka over the heater! Had to drive with windows down for next hour to clear stench of burnt feathers.

Ron (all),
due to the double wall design (surprisingly like todays gas fireplace exhausts) the intake
air to be heated surrounds the "heating component" of the heater leaving the exterior
of the heater cool or slightly warm where contact is not an issue.
i'm currently home recuperating after surgery and my heaters are at work. i will post
pic's in future of the various bn's i have.

oops i forgot i had this one in my basement. i bought it from a person in CA (USA).
he said "when he bought his bus there it was, looks brand new (which it does),
never used. i don't need it, i need a/c." so he sold it to me.
this is the bn4, with all the attached goodies. if you look the exhaust is at the bottom
6 o'clock, combustion air intake is the other small tube at about 5 o'clock. fresh air comes in at one end and heated out the other. the black wire laying around has an indicator
light on the end thats mounted in car/van to indicate "on". you just have to supply
power, ground, fuel supply to pump and a push pull ctrl cable for on/off.
it's a beauty. as you can see on this model the controls on top are exposed this is
because it is usually mounted in the van eng. compartment.
the bn2 has a cover which covers all the wiring/controls on top.
now that i finally got around to taking these pics, i'm going to sell it.

Bruce: As I understand it, is the BN4 too big for the little Speedster cockpit? In other words, would it drive me out or is there a modulator for the amount of heat?

How much would you be looking for it?

gn

gordon, i haven't run this one so i don't know this heaters particular performance but
i have run other bn4's. i don't think the heat would be overkill. i paid $140. shipped
to my door. i paid a little more because at the time i didn't want to piece a system
back together that had been removed in bits. this has the exhaust pipe, intake flange,
indicator light/wiring, heated air tube/flange, fuel pump all in one. that and the
condition is why i thought this one was outstanding. i like to trade waddaya got?
email me-bruce
also i have another bn4 a little different that i paid $100. for. works great.

You are correct that it's not the heater that gets hot. But the exhaust from the heater needs to be plumbed outside the car, and that exhaust pipe gets very hot. So you need a "path" for that exhaust that is away from anything flammable, and out through the body in a way that will not damage the fiberglass.
Ron

yes- but clearance/grommet and a double wall tube should do the trick just fine.

Yup. That would do it, but no short-cuts. Do it right!

Actually, if I get one of these gizmo's, I was thinking of running dual stacks up just behind the Roll Bar - kinda like a Kenworth.

Thought it would make a Teutonic Statement.....in a Red Neck sort of way.....

Anyone actually install one of these yet in their Speedster and have pictures they can share? I too picked up a BN2 (minus exhaust, switch and ducting --- but with fuel pump) and a BN4 (minus above and fuel pump). The BN2 appears nice size for in the front trunk positioned above the fuel tank and could be ducted into the defrost and with vents under the dash. Alternatively, the larger BN4 could go over the transmission/behind rear seat (do you call that the firewall?) and pump hot air into the ductwork. I soon will decide which to use. Does anyone have an extra fuel pump for the BN4? I'm assuming I can get metric diameter exhaust bent once I finally decide on exact placement of the unit -- guess just vent it in wheel well or to under the cars floor pan. Some installed pictures would be really helpful.

I would like to see an install as well.

Thanks,
Ben

i haven't started my install, waiting till spring. i plan to use my bn2 installed in trunk
mouted at the rear drawing in interior air from one side heating then recirculating back into interior. i bought two bn4's and one bn2, refurbished all three and then sold off
the bn4's. i like the size of the bn2 and don't think i'll be driving at sub zero temps
to require the heat output of the bn4.

Gordon,

Glad to see you're back. You're in New England? I thought you were down south - home for the holidays?

Here are some pictures of my install, with a few more in my file. Let me know if you have any questions, and when you get to doing your install, feel free to contact me if I can be of any help.
Ron

Ron,

I'm fitting a heater over the winter (a Webasto unit similar in size to the espar unit you have, though the Chesil doesn't have so much room under the dash as the hood area continues under the scuttle, so I may mount it right up front).

I'm planning to make an IM style under dash leather panel to house some air vents, stereo, and some additional 2" instruments.

I wondered if your car was the white one pictured in your file that has said panel. Any possibility you could post a photo of it from the floor so give me a clue as to how they mount it - don't want to reinvent the wheel! Also are you using the heater through those vents without melting them?? Finally, does the exhaust wrap keep external temps down and where did you route the exhaust to externally?

Thanks in advance,

Simon

Has anyone considered cutting out the 2x2 steel under the passenger side of the dash and rewelding in an inverted "U" section to allow additional room for a gas heater?

Gordon,

There's a 411 with a heater (complete) that just turned up in Ferrarras junk yard right off of RT #58 over in Carver, MA. I saw it on Wednesday. There's also an air conditioned (all wheel drive) Syncro as well . . .

TC

'73 and earlier had the gas heater; '74s switched to heater boxes (I had one of each).

Simon, That kit looks exactly like my Espar. I'm guessing it is the same thing with a different name.

My car is a burgandy 1992 IM. I used to have a lower add-on piece on my car when it had A/C. It has a rolled top edge that is screwed into the rolled bottom edge of the dash.

I am running the heat through the stock dash vents, and dash vent tubing. It hasn't melted so far, but I don't think they are made for the temps the heater can put out either. I have also found that even having the heater on low it gets too warm in the car. I either have the windows open, or cycle between low and off with the heater. It is nice when you first get in however to be able to blast the heat and warm everything up fast.

Yes the wrap helps a lot. You notice that the exhaust has the wrap and then the black plastic cover. The cover barely gets warm. The exhaust goes out the right side of the body, and then down towards the ground inside the wheel well, and exhausts under the car. I'll try to remember to post a picture of the exhaust outside the car. I sealed the exhaust in the hole with high temp sealant.

If you have questions during the install Simon, feel free to email me. I remember there were lots of questions I had while trying to decide the best way to do the install. I also found the instructions that came with the kit were not always very clear.

Alan, replacing the 2x2 with a U channel wouldn't help much. Replacing it with a proper piece of angle would help however.

Ron

simon/ron, from the heater picture it looks like you have a flexible "spiral wrap"
exhaust==yes/no. that would make exhaust routing a snap but i think i would prefer
(just my opinion) keeping the operatation of the heater and rxhaust outside of the
car interior. i thought mounting above the gas tank with the exhaust straight down
and out under the car. i haven't done any measuring or finalized a my plan but that
would be similar to what vw had done.
ps--the reason i asked about the spiral wrap exhaust is in some/most us states
they banned their use for regular exhaust repair and i was wondering if it
was for a valid reason.

Many of the VW 411/412 (Type 4) 1968-1974 also had BN4 (Correction BA4) gas heaters (situated in back over rear axel). They also had a dash mounted timer so can pre-warm the car. Be sure to get it and the separate fuel pump --- and heater exhaust and some of the duct work. These are probably a better size than the BN6 ones used in some of the buses. Webasto and Stewart-Warner also make them. It is possible to use a 6V one in a 12 volt car (all the glow plugs are 6v) by connecting the electric fuel pump and blower in series. Manuals for these are available online - just Google the one you're looking for.

manuals.type4.org/ba4/

Bruce, the exhaust is a kind of spiral wrap tubing. Maybe more like ribbed? Anyways, I think I would rather have the heater under the gas tank than in the boot with the gas vent. That would make me nervous.
Ron

Wolfgang,

Espar BN/2 mounted in engine bay just out of view above the DTM oil cooler.

nice spot

nice spot

I don't know about the older ones, but mine does not have a gas return line.

Assuming it is running efficiently, the BN2 will produce more than enough heat.