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There’s good news tonight. The clunk that launched a thousand wrenches has finally been dispatched. It has shuffled off this mortal torsion bar. It has been laid to rest. It is no more. It is an ex-clunk.

It sounded for all the world like it was coming from the suspension and setting up rattles in the steering column and up under the dash.

A pretty thorough check of the front end a few months back showed nothing obvious wrong with beam end bearings, trailing arms, ball joints, tie rod ends, steering box, steering column, Pitman arm, etc, etc. And this checking was by a competent mechanic with 30 years of AC VW experience.

The clunk had been bugging me for a long time, but started driving me nuts when I realized it was only getting worse over the past few months.

We did notice the front shocks were shot and riding on their bump stops, so those were replaced. That took some of the harshness out of the ride and reduced the clunking on rough surfaces, but only reduced it.

I realized the driver’s side hinge for the front deck lid is near the steering column up under the dash and so a possible source of the clunk. Both hinges were worn, so I replaced the bolts that serve as hinge pins and wrapped them in some strapping tape to isolate metal from metal and to take up any remaining play.

The clunk endured.

The next thing would be back to the mechanic to have the bumper brackets modified so they’ll no longer conflict with the front sway bar. This has been an issue since the car was new, but that means it existed even before the clunk. And before the clunk became The Clunk, and eventually THE CLUNK.

With a few days on my hands, I decided to clean up something else that had been bugging me for a while. On the driver’s side, where the front bumper bracket passes through a vertical slot in the fiberglass body, the bracket was resting on the bottom edge of the slot. Nothing serious, I thought, but a good thing to fix.

It turned out to be more complicated than it looked, as the bolts holding the front part of the bracket to the main part of the bracket (so you can adjust the vertical alignment of the bumper) were worn and gnarly. These were bolts that dream of someday growing up to be real bolts. They’re made from some sort of cardboard and applesauce amalgam. Bringing a wrench anywhere near them causes the heads to round off without any actual contact with the wrench. And, oh yeah, they were undersized for the job they were being asked to do.

Anyway, they were not fun getting out of there. The new ones popped right in and made the bumper height adjustment pretty easy. This was followed by the mandatory test drive to make sure that, like a conscientious physician, I had done no harm.

And, what the hey! The clunk, The Clunk, and THE CLUNK — all three— were completely and utterly gone. Like, totally!

That little bumper bracket had been the cause of all of my pain and suffering.

Some hindsight engineering analysis has led me to these conclusions.

The bumper bracket, which is bolted pretty solidly to the beam, was bouncing against the body shell whenever the front beam vibrated from road impact and the fiberglass (which is pretty hard stuff) was transmitting that vibration to anything that felt like resonating in time with the beat (remember those loose deck lid hinges).

Unknowingly, my Speedy and I (through negligent maintenance) had created the perfect rhythm section.

Anyway, the wicked clunk is dead.

Pay attention to the small stuff, kids.

And it’s all small stuff.

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I have similar bumper brackets, but have Nerf Bars instead.  I meticulously adjusted them when installed so they were not touching any of the surrounding fiberglass.  Fat lotta good it did me, because they settled over time and vibrated back and forth, just to spite me.  

I took the easiest, most direct approach.  I wanted to finish off the gnarly look of the slotted openings I made for where the bracket sticks through the fiberglass, and I used VW Beetle bumper bracket seals (yes, there is such a thing) but they aren't made for 1/4" thick fiberglass so I removed the part that would be behind the body metal, slipped them over the chromed part of the bar that fits through the body and installed the bar, then filled the gap between the body and the bracket with silicon caulk and pressed the rubber seal up against the body, gluing it in place with the silicon and giving it a finished, factory look.  

You may be wondering why I brought this up?  Well, before I went the silicon caulk route, the bumper brackets vibrated against the body and drove me nuts.  I could replicate the sound by striking the nerf bars - Brrrruuuuppp!  Once the silicon fills and cures in the gap, the bracket is held firmly and no more vibration.  I did that 20 years ago.  Been great ever since.

BTW: The VW Beetle bumper bracket seal is designed to do the same thing as the silicon caulk I used - Keep the bracket from vibrating against the body.

Last edited by Gordon Nichols

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Thanks for that, Ed.

I remember those quaint quatrains by the roadside. Perfect for a 35 mph America.

Today, I guess marketing types would reject them outright. Too untargeted. Who would read them, focused on interior devices and displays? And no graphics. So, how to tie them into a multi-media campaign?

Admittedly, I never bought any Burma Shave, or any shaving cream for that matter.

But I still remember the name.

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My Father told this story many times.  Back in the 50's , he was selling new Buicks. One of the customers who bought this new Buickkept bringing it back to the dealer for a rattle that the mechanic could not locate. This rattle was pretty bad when the car was driven on gravel roads.  Over and over, the car was returned to eliminate the rattle but to no avail. Finally, the passenger side door panel was removed.  A glass coke bottle was found in the bottom of the door. It was empty but had a cap on and a note inside.

The bottle was removed and the note removed from the bottle. It said something like this. "Well, you finally found me.  I was put in here by a line assembly worker and his crew.  We all were extra careful and took a little extra time to make sure your car was put together properly.  We all chipped in and here's $20.00  to take you and your friends out for a drink on us in your now perfect Roadmaster.......The Crew"

I don't know if the story is true but my father always told it like it really was for many years.........Bruce

@aircooled wrote- "My father told this story..."

That's pretty funny, Bruce!  For those that don't know, I'm a house/construction painter and 10? 12? 14? years ago worked on a local heritage house restoration (hey, a 100 year old ALL WOOD house still standing is a big deal around here- and most houses here are all wood construction).  At some point someone tore apart a wall and found a bottle with a list of some the guys who built it originally.  Someone thought of looking to see if we could find someone still alive (great photo op for everyone involved, and if he wanted to spread a little drywall mud?) but we quickly realized that there wasn't going to be anyone still around.  I think we slipped the original list back in the bottle, added our own "Renovations 20XX" with all our names and sealed it back into the wall.

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My dad had a 1952 Buick Special that he only reluctantly traded in after ten years.

It had no coke bottle in the door panel, but it did have its own brand of impossible to find clunk.

It was a massive thing. Four thousand pounds. Eight cylinders, all in a row. The 263 cranked out an equally massive 128 hp, at 3600 rpm. (In that perspective, it's easier to understand how a contemporary tiny, 1800-lb roadster with 70 hp could get away calling itself a 'Speedster'.)

The public remembered that 'quality' motorcars of the past were heavy, solid things. Pierce Arrow, Deusenberg, Packard. A cheap way to convey that impression was to make something with the comfort of a living room, with mohair upholstery, that floated down the boulevard quietly, 'insulated' as it were from any discomforts the roadway might try to impose. And OK, hanging a bunch of chrome on it helped convey that impression, too.

Highway speeds were 45-50 mph. Sixty was 'damned fast' (my mother's words). And I don't recall dad ever topping 70 mph in the whole ten years he owned the car. At 65, you felt like you were tempting fate, and praying that nothing would suddenly require that you change speed or direction.

The wheels and tires were appropriately massive and must have been connected to the rest of the car somehow, but you'd never guess that just riding along. Steering was unassisted and commanded via an enormous, bus-sized steering wheel. Those were the days when 'both hands on the wheel' was actually pretty sound advice.

Anyway, we'd be driving along, enjoying life, when, like a shot, all hell would break loose (a contemporary metaphor), and that hell would be erupting from the steering wheel. It started up shuddering and lurching back and forth and my dad had all he could do to hang on. The rest of us froze, recognizing a moment of crisis, as the seconds ticked by. Sometimes it would last a few seconds, sometimes a minute or more. You never knew. Eventually, calm would return to the cabin and we'd continue on.

The first few times it happened, my dad took the car back to the dealer, but since they could never duplicate the 'event', they pronounced the car 'sound as a dollar' (another contemporary metaphor).

It continued to be just as sound for the whole ten years he owned it. Mostly pleasant, stately motoring, sprinkled with a few unannounced moments of sheer terror. Like so many anomalies in those cars, you just 'learned to live with it'. Those cars taught us patience, forbearance, and to be thankful for what we had.

Today, in retrospect, I suspect the wheels and tires were probably all just a skosh out of round and out of balance and that every now and then they'd end up rolling down the road in just the right synchrony that instead of the out-of-roundedness of the various parts canceling itself out, it conspired to create some genuine excitement.

To quote the service department manager, they all did that.

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Last edited by Sacto Mitch

I had a car that did that once. Can’t remember if it was one of my bugs or  73 Skylark I got as a hand me down from my dad. Every once in a while when you were running off throttle the front end would start shimmying. Stepping on the brakes would stop it. Turned out wheel bearings and ball joints were all shot. Replacing them fixed it.

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And one more thing.

With the new shocks, I was curious how much I'd have to jack up the front beam to make the sway bar contact the bumper bracket. This used to be quite a bit, as I remember — like almost until the front wheels were off the ground — but the two did eventually contact each other. You can see the marks from that on each. I was thinking new shocks shouldn't make any difference there.

But, surprise, they did. I can now lift the front until the wheels are three inches off the ground and the sway bar stops its upward motion short of hitting the bumper bracket. When driving, there is no sensation that anything is 'bottoming out', even on pretty severe bumps.

So, the resistance of the shocks is apparently limiting the suspension travel 'on the rebound'. Which, I guess is a good thing.

Is this to be expected?

Last edited by Sacto Mitch
@Sacto Mitch posted:

So, the resistance of the shocks is apparently limiting the suspension travel 'on the rebound'. Which, I guess is a good thing.

Is this to be expected?

It's not the rebound dampening that's limiting the travel, it's the extended length of the shock. You're topping out now, rather than bottoming out as before.

The more I think about what we're doing by lowering these cars on the beam (rather than at the spindles) the less I like it.

The shock only has so much travel. It's got an extended length and a compressed length. The suspension itself also has a certain amount of travel available. It'd be nice if the available shock travel was about the same as the available suspension travel, but it isn't. Ideally, the car would rest with about 60+% of the compression travel available from that point, but lowered on the springs there's probably about 15% or less.

Stock length shocks run out of downward travel (due to their long length) but have enough for all of the upward travel. Your new shocks (due to their short length) have enough downward travel, but not enough for the suspension to be fully extended.

Shocks for cars lowered on the beam are not really VW shocks. They're shocks for some other application that have enough of the same specs to work(ish).

The more I think about what we're doing by lowering these cars on the beam (rather than at the spindles) the less I like it.

No, that's not whats happening. The shocks won't lift anything.

The front wheels should be able to move through their full suspension travel from fully compressed, to completely uncompressed or drooped downward. Ideally the mechanical limits of the beam and trailing arms are what limits the travel in each direction.  However, in this case your front wheels droop until they hit the full travel of the shock (the shock can't extend anymore or get any longer) so the movement in that direction "tops out"  because of the length of the shock and the wheel can't move downward anymore.

The rebound damping of the shock only slows down the shock extension, so that when the wheel is returning to normal from having absorbed a hit upward it doesn't bounce back really fast like a basketball and send you skittering down the road.

OOPS, Stan beat me to it.

Last edited by JMM (Michael)

A normal shock absorber is not like a lift-cylinder on a trunk or a garage door spring. It doesn't aid in lifting anything. Air-shocks from the 70s muscle-car era had a seperate air-bladder that effectively changed the length of the shock - making it longer and causing the car's rear to lift up to clear the big 'ol tires sticking out. It was a dumb way to lift the car (raised spring shackles were way better), but we all did it, because it also made the back end hard enough resist compression on acceleration, which aided in giving the ability to do a righteous burnout for the laydees (who rightly divined we were a bunch of juvenile twits).

Anyhow, normally operating shocks resist (but still allow) movement in the suspension, so that the car doesn't bounce. Shock absorbers dampen suspension movement by slowing motion down in both compression and extension (rebound), but shocks are often tuned to have different compression and rebound rates (that is, how resistant they are to motion) specific to the application. Drag shocks have almost no rebound dampening in the front and almost no compression dampening in the rear -- so that weight is transferred back (nose up, back on the haunches) on hard acceleration. Old British sportscars had "friction dampers" that were just a wiper-arm on a piece of friction material... which obviously worked the same in both compression and rebound. The amount of dampening could be adjusted by how hard the wiper-arm was pushing against the material.

Konis are adjustable, but not fully so. Their compression is fixed, and their rebound is adjustable. Smarter guys than me know how to valve or adjust shocks in both compression and rebound to get a car to corner flatter, while still allowing the damper to do its job controlling suspension movement. Magnetic dampers are miracles of modern automotive science, with the ability to go from full soft to full hard and back in a fraction of a second (insert juvenile joke here) by means of an electrical stimulation (an opening for yet another juvenile joke).

We have no need of such frippery. We'd be content to have shocks the right length that work in the appropriate dampening range, which doesn't seem like a lot to ask, but which is elusive.

Like tires, we get what we get, and we don't throw a fit.

Last edited by Stan Galat

"The more I think about what we're doing by lowering these cars on the beam (rather than at the spindles) the less I like it."

I've been an active member here for almost 12 years (I believe my first post was March 2012? I lurked for about 4 years before that) and whenever front suspension height and/or lowering has been brought up (seems like many, many times over the years) I've mentioned (at what seems like every opportunity) that, given the choice, offset spindles are, while not perfect, the better way to go.  Now I'm sure some have got the message somewhere along the way, but sometimes it's felt like I'm "talking to a ******* wall" (if you don't know the story about the reporter in Jerusalem seeing a gentleman roll out his prayer mat in front of the wall everyday, let me know and I'll post it).

Anyway, it's nice to see someone else on the same wavelength...

Last edited by ALB

Lowered spindles were designed for the Cal Look crowd and a 2½" drop is the most you can do with a 15" wheel.  And not all 15" wheels fit- you had to do a little grinding for some aluminum Riviera wheels to clear the ball joints.  When I built my Cal Look bug (1977?), offset spindles didn't exist so the 4" drop was accomplished via a Select-a-drop (only the top tube moved- it's a little crude, and the smart thing to do would have been to turn the center collar of the bottom tube ¼", weld it in before installing the bottom bracket for the S-a-d, but it was my daily driver, I didn't know any better and hey, we were happenin'!) and 135-15 (23¼ vs the stock 25"- they are skinny, and truly evil little pieces of rubber!) tires. In retrospect, even with the Koni's (for an Opel Kadett) set on full soft it rode like sh*t.  I think the ball joints were the limiters on compression- not the best way to be cruising around at speed!.  My friend Bruce made his own 2" drop spindles by marrying Beetle and Karmann Ghia spindles with a wee bit of weld, with no ½ or 5/8" plate spacing the spindle out.

@Michael McKelvey- it sounds like the beam adjusters in your Speedster were installed to get as much drop as possible- typical for a Cal Looker, but not really helpful for a minor drop with lowered spindles.  The fix (which I'm sure you already know) is to remove the beam, set the collars to the middle of the adjustment range, cut them loose, rotate the assemblies (¼"?) and reweld.  It's a lot of work to make use of lowered spindles and really, if it rides fine now...

Do you know the distance from the floor to the center of the headlights?

Last edited by ALB

The idea that people are going to take their beams apart and weld/reweld the adjusters after the beam is on the car and full of grease is ludicrous. None of us are 16, nor do we want to burn our place of residence to the ground. A new replacement beam with the adjusters already welded in is less than $500 if one shops a bit.

The problem is that the adjusters are all pre-welded in position assuming people want maximum drop, so that when 2-1/2" dropped spindles are installed, there's not enough upward adjustment to get 2" of drop (to use an arbitrary example)

... but that 2" of drop is 100% available with stock spindles on a beam with adjusters welded in where everybody welds them. The problem is that now the beam has about 1-1/2" of downward travel available before everything bottoms out.

It seems to me (and I've not done this, so it remains in the hypothetical) that all of this nonsense would be avoided with an "airbag" beam with no torsion leaves and shock towers (which could support the weight of the entire front end) and the drop spindles which are available everywhere. Then, instead of air-shocks or air bags, just get a good set of coil-over shocks in the appropriate length and proper spring range, and adjust ride-height independently side to side and up and down the way you can with coil-overs.

AirKewld makes the beam and Red-9 sells the shocks and torsion elimination bars.

Last edited by Stan Galat
@Stan Galat posted:

The idea that people are going to take their beams apart and weld/reweld the adjusters after the beam is on the car and full of grease is ludicrous.....

I think you're over-reacting just a wee bit, Stan- how do you think it was done before new beams became widely available (and cheap)?  And I never said it wouldn't be a lot of work, nor did I actually suggest anyone undertake this as a 'fix' (although I do know people who would do it this way rather than buy a new beam- you know, gotta keep it original!).

PS- I do think your front coilover idea is great!

Last edited by ALB
@ALB posted:

I think you're over-reacting just a wee bit, Stan- how do you think it was done before new beams became widely available (and cheap)?  And I never said it wouldn't be a lot of work, nor did I actually suggest anyone undertake this as a 'fix' (although I do know people who would do it this way rather than buy a new beam- you know, gotta keep it original!).

PS- I do think your front coilover idea is great!

I think it was done one way before new beams became widely available and cheap, and another way afterward. We could talk about how to fix an old Sony 21" TV set, or we could just go to WalMart and buy a new flat-screen 52" for less money. It's the same with adjusters and beams.

Thanks on "the idea". I'm really wanting to try it.

I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree, Stan.  Not many people can fix an old TV, so yeah, taking it out for repair will be more than one is worth new.  I certainly see the sense in that (plus, when a TV gets old enough that it dies you get to look forward to new technology).  A lot of gearheads can weld (or know a friend that will do it for them), though, and even if it's only $500, it's enough money that if the beam you have is in good shape, can be modified (whether the center collars are just cut loose/turned or adjusters are bought/installed) and have a good chunk of money left over.

Last edited by ALB

I would counter that it's not so easy to weld a tube full of grease either. I've seen the welds guys post pictures of -- welds made in the best possible circumstances and conditions. Less people can weld than you think.

I don't think I'm being unduly harsh. I understand that this was the way guys did it back in the day, but there are relatively inexpensive, ready-made solutions available for sale now.

As far as agreeing to disagree- I'm 100% good with that. There's a lot of ways to skin a cat. I'm always grateful for your take on things.

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