Ernie, the A-1 does sound sweet to me. I followed John Leader last spring on a trip after he had Tiger's system installed... the sound driving next to him was awesome. But, like Terry and Stan mentioned, it may be a bit much from the driver's seat.
The CSP system may be somewhat restrictive, but sounds mellow. I would go with an A-1, routed like Stan suggests with second muffler.
Now let me get this straight... 3 forum guys tell me the system is too loud.... Tiger strongly assured me, at the time of at the sale, that the unit is very quiet. Hmmmmm. What's wrong with this picture? I'll be calling Pat Downs in th AM for his view!
... Terry, I too live at the end of a gravel road. I am currently running a lil' Bugpack hide away system with a dump pipe. I love the quiet, almost stock sounding exhaust noise, but the mentioned dust creation was intolerable. I went to the generic auto parts store, bought one of those old fashioned chrome, angled tips. After a a little "shortening" work on both the e pipe and the tip, I installed the the thing.... No more dust problem!
... Terry, I too live at the end of a gravel road. I am currently running a lil' Bugpack hide away system with a dump pipe. I love the quiet, almost stock sounding exhaust noise, but the mentioned dust creation was intolerable. I went to the generic auto parts store, bought one of those old fashioned chrome, angled tips. After a a little "shortening" work on both the e pipe and the tip, I installed the the thing.... No more dust problem!
The CSP system Jim had on his first car (a VS which he loved, and drove the wheels off) is an almost perfect system for a 1776 or 1914. It's got 1-1/2" primaries which merge, then separate into two nice can mufflers running beside the valve covers. The tailpipes exit in the stock VW location, which pretty closely replicates the original location on a 356.
For any engine larger than a 2007, I've been told a header with 1-5/8" primaries is the only way to fly.
With respect to everybody who is running something different, you really want a true header with equal length primaries and a true 4 into 1 merge for optimum performance. An exhaust set up like this will actually create low pressure zones in the exhaust system, which scavenge the cylinders. The problem is that there isn't much space under or behind the engine for a long collector- there are a lot of systems which look pretty silly with stuff hanging out from under the apron. That's the beauty of the A1 sidewinder- it's an elegant solution to a difficult problem. Its got nice long primaries, a nice smooth and long collector, and tucks up nicely under the apron.
A Tri-Mil certainly flows better than a Monza, but it isn't a "tuned" exhaust- there are no equal length primary tubes, and no single collector. It works OK for what it is, but it is on a completely different level than a true header. I've had MANY different headers trying to find something nice that didn't cost $1000. In the end, I ended up spending many hundreds of dollars on stuff that didn't live up to my expectations, before spending the $1K anyhow.
Ernie hit a home run on his first time up to bat. Good for him.
For any engine larger than a 2007, I've been told a header with 1-5/8" primaries is the only way to fly.
With respect to everybody who is running something different, you really want a true header with equal length primaries and a true 4 into 1 merge for optimum performance. An exhaust set up like this will actually create low pressure zones in the exhaust system, which scavenge the cylinders. The problem is that there isn't much space under or behind the engine for a long collector- there are a lot of systems which look pretty silly with stuff hanging out from under the apron. That's the beauty of the A1 sidewinder- it's an elegant solution to a difficult problem. Its got nice long primaries, a nice smooth and long collector, and tucks up nicely under the apron.
A Tri-Mil certainly flows better than a Monza, but it isn't a "tuned" exhaust- there are no equal length primary tubes, and no single collector. It works OK for what it is, but it is on a completely different level than a true header. I've had MANY different headers trying to find something nice that didn't cost $1000. In the end, I ended up spending many hundreds of dollars on stuff that didn't live up to my expectations, before spending the $1K anyhow.
Ernie hit a home run on his first time up to bat. Good for him.
Ernie,
One more thing about Tiger's system. It has been covered here before. The header is not a simple bolt-on affair. Especially if the engine is in the car. If at all possible, install the header before you put your engine in. My installation required excessive trimming of the tin as well as some bending and modification of the header. About 2 hours for a professional.
BTW, I had Tiger modify the system to allow me clearance for valve adjustments without removing the header. The modification lowered the muffler to a point that I had to raise the rear end about 1'.
One more thing about Tiger's system. It has been covered here before. The header is not a simple bolt-on affair. Especially if the engine is in the car. If at all possible, install the header before you put your engine in. My installation required excessive trimming of the tin as well as some bending and modification of the header. About 2 hours for a professional.
BTW, I had Tiger modify the system to allow me clearance for valve adjustments without removing the header. The modification lowered the muffler to a point that I had to raise the rear end about 1'.
"If at all possible, install the header before you put your engine in"
... That is my plan Amigo. Pat at CB wants the system installed for dyno tuning. Now, I just have to ring Tiger's bell about the obvious noise estimate inconsistensies.
... That is my plan Amigo. Pat at CB wants the system installed for dyno tuning. Now, I just have to ring Tiger's bell about the obvious noise estimate inconsistensies.
Piggybacking on Stan for a minute -- This may or may not make sense, but The Wrench was explaining this to me as the header we built came together. He wanted the pipes to go into the collector in firing order in order to scavenge each cylinder optimally.
Highjack alert:
This is way off topic but the discussion about CB Performance reminded me of what a kick butt drive it is up through Kings and Sequoia NPs via east from Fresno, through the parks on a National Scenic Drive.... the drop from Sequoia down to Three Rivers (and then on to CB westbound at the Farmersville exit. go south to CB) is a Speedster dream with a second and third gear drop from the tree line to the rivers....
That was part of a leg south out of Yosemite we took on Dale's recommendation last year and it was sure worth it. Fill up in Fresno and top off in the park, or pucker the fuel left to Three Rivers.
Now ceasing the Highjack.
This is way off topic but the discussion about CB Performance reminded me of what a kick butt drive it is up through Kings and Sequoia NPs via east from Fresno, through the parks on a National Scenic Drive.... the drop from Sequoia down to Three Rivers (and then on to CB westbound at the Farmersville exit. go south to CB) is a Speedster dream with a second and third gear drop from the tree line to the rivers....
That was part of a leg south out of Yosemite we took on Dale's recommendation last year and it was sure worth it. Fill up in Fresno and top off in the park, or pucker the fuel left to Three Rivers.
Now ceasing the Highjack.
Keep posting pictures like that one, and you could hijack the thread to Beirut! Save that bad boy for the 2008 calendar!
Muffler noise update.... Well I talked to Tiger at TigerPerformance this week. I mentioned youz guy's comments about excesive Sidewinder noise. He pretty much rationalized that if I want to enjoy the added power, I have to enjoy the added noise. Fair enough, I guess.
At any rate, my project will go forward. All I can say is that it's great to know now about the resonator fix described above.
Thanks, Ernie
Oh yeah Jim: that is a pretty gal durn fine photograph!
At any rate, my project will go forward. All I can say is that it's great to know now about the resonator fix described above.
Thanks, Ernie
Oh yeah Jim: that is a pretty gal durn fine photograph!
I have a '01 GMC Dually with a 8100 Vortec 496cu. V8 gas motor. (Don't even ask about mpg) It has a single stock non restrictive and very quiet as a mouse muffler on it.
I am curious as to if a specific muffler made for a larger Cu.in. application would suffice on a speedster...Just think'in......
I am curious as to if a specific muffler made for a larger Cu.in. application would suffice on a speedster...Just think'in......
Excellent reasoning Alan... Tiger claims that a muffler configuration that allows "same end" in & out pipes and the Speedy's space limitations dictate the components that he uses.
I guess I'll find out!
I guess I'll find out!
... or you could add the second muffler....
Ernie,
I got a system from tiger at a-1 (powder coated headers, stainless muffler and center outlet). i don't think it's loud at all. in fact, i think it's just about perfect. turns heads when accelerating, mellows out when cruising. check the youtube links below and hear it for yourself!!
the motor is a type 1, 2020cc.
someone in a previous post asked what the acceleration numbers would be. i've done some rough timing and am turning just under seven seconds for a "street start". thats coasting at 5mph in first gear with the clutch engaged and mashing it. it would probably be a few ticks quicker if i felt like abusing the thing. as far as quarter mile times, it's somewhere around a high 14 second car.
good luck!! it sounds like you're assembling quite a winter project!!
george
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnn5RZx4J0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oFEQ95YSKQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRBEoFSaWzQ
I got a system from tiger at a-1 (powder coated headers, stainless muffler and center outlet). i don't think it's loud at all. in fact, i think it's just about perfect. turns heads when accelerating, mellows out when cruising. check the youtube links below and hear it for yourself!!
the motor is a type 1, 2020cc.
someone in a previous post asked what the acceleration numbers would be. i've done some rough timing and am turning just under seven seconds for a "street start". thats coasting at 5mph in first gear with the clutch engaged and mashing it. it would probably be a few ticks quicker if i felt like abusing the thing. as far as quarter mile times, it's somewhere around a high 14 second car.
good luck!! it sounds like you're assembling quite a winter project!!
george
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnn5RZx4J0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oFEQ95YSKQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRBEoFSaWzQ
I know it's tricky to tell from an online video, but that sounds much quieter and more civilised than my 1641, although it has a muffler I've never been happy with.
I was thinking of sticking with a small engine to maximise my exhaust options and keep things quiet, but that video may have just changed my mind.
1776 or 2110.
Heater boxes or not.
Decisions decisions, this is the only time in my life I can't make my mind up !
I was thinking of sticking with a small engine to maximise my exhaust options and keep things quiet, but that video may have just changed my mind.
1776 or 2110.
Heater boxes or not.
Decisions decisions, this is the only time in my life I can't make my mind up !
My 2 cents? 2110 with boxes. See Stan & Terry's posts regarding Dale's set up. If I was having a car built from scratch I would go with a gas heater like Stan's.
I agree with Jim. It may cost more, but you won't be asking yourself later if you should have gotten more power.
I have owned 2 Speedsters and currently own a Spyder. I have had 3 1600cc engines, a 1776, a 2109, a 2275, and currently a 2332. I have never had too much HP although I am pretty much at the limits of traction with what I have now....
It really depends upon what you want and what you expect out of your car. One of my Speedsters had a 1776 with twin dual 34 mm Delorttas, produced about 80hp. Was a wonderful car for hopping about.
But, for sheer fun, I like what I have now. The 2332 in my car is home built with some professional advice, very expensive parts wise, but it is on the good side of 200 HP, without turbo, without NOS, with several more enhancements to follow....fun to say the least and not too many rice rockets leave me in the dust....and I am looking for another 35 to 50 HP out of it by tuning, better exhaust, moving to EFI, and a few other tweeks...
So, from my thinking I would recommend spending a bit more for a larger engine now, rather than doing it backward like I did.....you can aways drive a large engine conservatively, but you can't flog a small low HP engine into significantly better performance without a massive transfusion of $$$$$.
It really depends upon what you want and what you expect out of your car. One of my Speedsters had a 1776 with twin dual 34 mm Delorttas, produced about 80hp. Was a wonderful car for hopping about.
But, for sheer fun, I like what I have now. The 2332 in my car is home built with some professional advice, very expensive parts wise, but it is on the good side of 200 HP, without turbo, without NOS, with several more enhancements to follow....fun to say the least and not too many rice rockets leave me in the dust....and I am looking for another 35 to 50 HP out of it by tuning, better exhaust, moving to EFI, and a few other tweeks...
So, from my thinking I would recommend spending a bit more for a larger engine now, rather than doing it backward like I did.....you can aways drive a large engine conservatively, but you can't flog a small low HP engine into significantly better performance without a massive transfusion of $$$$$.
Hey George, you just floated my boat! Your car sounds pretty gal-durned good to me.
I just hate "glass-pack" noise! My 1st car was a '50 chevy small window coupe which I upgraded to 283 corvette power. When I went to the muffler shop, I told them: make it sound like a stock 'vette and that they did. That was 42 years ago and I haven't changed much. I'd much rather hear the motor than a noise-maker muffler any time. Thanks for the timely post!
I just hate "glass-pack" noise! My 1st car was a '50 chevy small window coupe which I upgraded to 283 corvette power. When I went to the muffler shop, I told them: make it sound like a stock 'vette and that they did. That was 42 years ago and I haven't changed much. I'd much rather hear the motor than a noise-maker muffler any time. Thanks for the timely post!
Ernie,
Thanks for provoking me to stirr those videos up. I ended up watching them about a dozen times longing for next spring...
George
Thanks for provoking me to stirr those videos up. I ended up watching them about a dozen times longing for next spring...
George
Decision finally made. 2110, an A1 sidewinder and heater boxes (1 5/8 if I need to)
Just need to decide on the builder now - CB Performance (if they ship to the UK) or CPR. I'll make some calls!
Just need to decide on the builder now - CB Performance (if they ship to the UK) or CPR. I'll make some calls!