Thinkin' about a CB Performance turn-key dyno tuned stroker motor.........

Anybody have input?
CB is located down the Ca central valley from me so I would guess that they could get things dialed in right for my elevation & temperature needs. I would like to side-step the tuning hassles that I went through on my last "shade tree" 2110 motor.
Thanks, Ernie
http://www.cbperformance.com/turnkeys.asp

I have a 1915 that Pat Downs at CB made for my car and I think it's great. They have one of the best reputations in the business. Wee assembled my car (an '06 Beck) at the Carlisle show last year and the engine was stricly bolt-in/fill-up/crank. It was perfect right out of the box.

Try to get a printout of the RPM - Hp/Torque chart. It makes for a great addition to your custom service manual or a wall poster. After I had my heads rebuilt with larger valves to accomodate a 4-1 header, the shop ran the combo in on their engine dyno. I was not aware they were going to do this. Unfortunately his purpose was to run the combo in, not to measure max power, so he stopped at 5000RPM. He gave me all the numbers in a table format. I took the info and put it into Excell and my computer drew a nice little graph for me. Horsepower goes straight up off the chart and the torque approximates a horizontal line.

I'm thinking of asking for a rear wheel dyno run for Xmas. A local shop will give you two pulls for $80.

They are definitely one of the top notch builders in the business. You can't go wrong. Anyway Ernie, why are you swapping your motor so soon?

There is no substitute for a Dyno tuned engine..

I bought a second (computer controlled) dyno recently that I'm installing as we speak.

Anyone knows where to get a good type IV longblock for my 914? Thanks in advance for the advice.

Can someone give me some input on a CB 2110 motor Is it to much motor for the speedster is the smaller motor a better choice for the car ??

Re: the 2110, John, it all depends on what you want to do with your car. I can tell you that my little 2366 gets me down the road in fine fashion, and I was never happy with the 1641 I threw away.
If you go big, do it with good advice, a maintenance plan and good brakes.
One thing may lead to another; be prepared financially.

John & Ernie,

I have 18,000 miles on my CB 2110, including three long trips of 4200 miles, 4000 miles, and 1300 miles. My single problem came from a broken ALT housing case with a resulting loss of fan belt and a small seep at the sand seal that cleared up after break-in. It has been problem free since those minor break-in issues.

I owned a 1776 prior to the 2110 so that is my point of reference as far as power. The difference is quantum in terms of usable torque and running at RPMs on highways.

I think the highest praise that can be given to an engine is it's reliability... with that said; I would drive it to either coast tomorrow with confidence. And I would drive it at 80 Mph all day long (and have).

Hi john..... The 2110 seems to be the upgrade stroker motor of choice at this forum. I had one in an old VW convert, but I think my Speedy is a much better, safer platform. Here's some info on how the CB offerings do on the dyno.
http://www.cbperformance.com/dyno/dynocharts.html
....Ricardo you asked why I would want a new motor so soon. The fact is that I am very pleased with my so called "Mexi-crate-junk-1915" from VS.
Now that I have it cooled down for the 100* summers around here, I'm confident that I could drive it for years.
But, as you know, "boys will be boys" and those long winter nights are now here. Like all good fishermen, I'm dreaming of "the next big season". Heck, all I gotta do is pay off last summer's septic tank repairs ($4200) and keep payin' the kid's college tuition and car insurance and I'm home free! What else should an ol' geezer spend his dough on?

FWIW: Specs on my CB 2110 (Mid level performance build)

Case - CB raised roof aluminum case, 10 mm stud inserts, full flowed

crankshaft - C. B. forged chromoly, shot peened, nitrited, 8 dowel pins,VW journals

connecting rods - C. B. 5.400 race rods w/ARP bolts

flywheel - C. B. 12.5 lbs, 8 dowel

glan nut - C. B. chromoly

pistons & liners - Mahle centrifugally cast liners and
forged pistons, pins with teflon buttons

head studs - C. B. 10 mm chromoly

cylinder heads - C. B. 044 super mag w/40 mm x 35.5 mm stainless steel valves, hi-rev valve springs, chromoly retainers,hardened valve locks, unleaded valve seats, CNC ported round port

rocker shafts - C. B. solid shafts w/forged 1.1:1 ratio rocker arms, swivel feel adjusting screws

camshaft - #2242 (290 deg. duration x .380 lift), cam followers lightweight 29 mm head

pushrods - lightweight chromoly

clutch - stage 1 Kennedy w/200 mm disc

oil system - C. B. thin line oil sump (2 qt), 30 mm
full flow oil system, offset oil cooler (96 Plate w/Fan in rear left wheel well.)

carburation - 44 IDF carburetors, C. B. Performance hex bar linkage and intake manifold system, K&N air filters,with Intermeccanica water shields and set of CNC "Carrera" tops + custom built filter screens.

ignition system - Bosch 009 mechanical advance distributor
( rpm rev limit) and coil system with multi spark MSD 6-A ignition

Late Model Doghouse, all tin painted Porsche "Seal Gray".

Well Ernie; you could upgrade it like I did; just a top end job without splitting the case (basically port your heads or install big valve ported heads, upgrade valvetrain, ratio rockers, exhaust, etc.) or go all out, split the case and install counterweighted crank, performance cam, etc. As I said and Jim has shown you, if you choose to go with a new build you can't go wrong with CB Performance or Chico Performance; they're both the pick of the litter in terms of Type I builders.

Thanks guys you have helped me to make the correct choice of motor . I will get CB 2110 with the upgrade trans and 4 wheel disk brakes.

Jim, John, or Ernie,
What does a crated turnkey 1915 from CB sell for or the 2110 like yours, Jim? Also what are the HP ratings when built for moderate performance/high-reliability? Thanks.

Tom,

My 2110 came in a package deal with the Speedster through Henry (IM). Henry uses CB Built engines in most of his Type I powered cars and so I'm guessing they have a deal set up on the engines IM lists as their Type I options. All of that to say, I'm not sure what it cost. Call Pat Downs and ask, use my specs for a guide. It may be a mid level 2110, but all of the parts are high quality and that's what counts in the long run.

This may get a side thread going on the topic of rated HP by the engine builders. I think the Dyno numbers put out by most of the builders are a little optimistic. I may be wrong, but that's an opinion I've formed by reading posts on this and other forums discussing advertised HP. With that said; my 2110's dyno sheet reads: 143 HP @ 5,000 RPMs with 150 Ft Lbs of Torque.

Be wary of individuals or builders claiming mega HP on their engines. Just because they say it (and believe it), doesn't make it true. My bet is that if all of the 100-110 HP 1776s, 130-140 HP 1914s, and 150-160 HP 2110s were Dynoed at the same shop, same day, 90% would be at least 15-20 HP over-rated. Again, that's just an opinion. Of course there are exceptions, like some of the built up engines owned by members of this site that have forgotten more about ACVWs than I'll learn in a lifetime.


All I know is that it feels great from the seat, even with the 3:44 R/P. There's plenty of power to maneuver in traffic at speed, to cruise at higher speeds on Interstates, there's plenty of torque to carry the high R/P in town, and to keep up with other Speedsters on the twisties (except Paul's). The jump from my mid level 1776 to a mid level 2110 was BIG without any sacrifice in reliability.

Thanks Jim. Great to have you back on board and helping to educate us semi-newbies. Have you recorded any 0-60 or 1/4 mile data with your current car?

Keep in mind that guys spending **most** of their time below 5,252 RPM will never experience the "Horsepower" they paid for. This is because HP is a unit of measure that is derived from an engine's **TORQUE** numbers and where they are achieved. Below 5,252 RPM Torque is ALWAYS higher than HP. All dyno graphs that are correct will have TQ and HP cross at 5,252 RPM exactly and thats due to the formulas used.

What this means is that most guys don't interpret a dyno graph correctly, and thats is generally because they look only at PEAK HP and TQ numbers, not nderstanding the importance of a well rounded engine creating flat torque and adequate HP...

Peak numbers sell engines, flat torque curves with healthy numbers increase the grin factor. Torque is all I tune for, it's what you feel in the seat of the pants, it's what increases efficiency and it's what makes a street engine easy/ fun to drive

So, when choosing an engine get ALL the dyno data and look at the entire graph, not just those peak numbers- they mean very little to the overall scope of the engine.

So the moral of the story is to get up to 5,000 RPMs as soon and as often as possible. lol.

Yup, Horsepower = (Torque x RPM) / 5252

For further discussiion of how the formula is derived visit:
http://horsepowersports.com/torque