Thinking of an IM speedster

Oh, and should I stay put and hold off for a roadster (convertible D)?

Hi Mark,

Sounds like a good opportunity. Not sure if you knew that there is a 2 year plus wait to have a Beck built buy Special Edition last time I spoke with them this past summer. If you can buy the IM at a reasonable price, you can be assured that your money will be safe upon resale. They build amazing cars that have watertight interiors when most of the others do not. Good luck with your search please let us know how it goes.

Well, having owned three IMs - one roadster and two speedsters - I guess I am biased, but I don't think you can get a better 356 replica than what they made.  I have never lost a penny on resale.  The quality is there.  They have a few little quirks - sometimes go through CV boots once in a while - but beyond that, I can't think of any real issues with them.

The electric roll up windows are great.  Yes, in a heavy rain, you will get a tab wet, but it is a convertible, not a coupe, and any drop top sports car I have had in the past has leaked somewhat in heavy rain.  In torrential rain, you stay home, or pull off the road.   If you've had sports cars in the past, you know to carry some extra rags or cloths with you to plug water leaks.

The Subaru engine and transmission gives you a very smooth and hearty driving car.  As it's a 2020 car, you should have rack and pinion steering which is very direct - point it where you want to go, and it goes.  Probably has four wheel disc brakes that are strong and reliable.

AC is a bonus, although I have never had it in my IMs, and the heated seats are great for cool/cold drives.  AC should also help to keep the inside of the windshield clear in rain - another convertible sports car quirk.

Sounds like a good Intermeccanica.  Depending on where you live, you make the decision as to what type of fun car you need/want.  These are not winter drivers.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1749286561969192

Covertible D with Subie would be a needle in a haystack used and yes Beck has a 2, perhaps 3 year wait. As to whether this is a decent toy to play with in retirement, I'm not sure anyone can answer that for you. If you've never even sat in one, try to get some extended seat time in if at all possible. Where are you located, perhaps there's a member here nearby?

PS

IM has stopped producing non-electiric cars as of recently.

You can imagine how frustrated I am that Henry's no longer with IM, and they've pivoted to those goofy electric pod things.  

Owner of the Speedster I was looking at has jacked his price substantially, into the 6 figures.  I'm guessing its because he really doesn't want to sell.... so back to lurking at auctions.

Any regrets around IM?  I think at this point I'm set on one as the next car to get.

I think your seller saw what the two 2002 IM's sold for on Bring A Trailer...you won't go wrong with an IM, and you'll get your money out of it if you don't way overpay.  The Beck is really, really nice...but not as nice as an IM.

Good luck with your search. There aren't too many 250 hp 356 Porsche-shaped objects to be had in the marketplace.

Yeah, I agree.  I bid on both of those BAT auctions, just got cold feet as I was waiting for my last financial deal to come together.  It did, but 2 weeks too late.

Other guy wants $150k.  At that point, might as well pick up an original 356 cabriolet.

Mark,

I live in Vancouver (home of IM) and have known/seen the cars for years.  They are fantastic products and my search for one is why I turned to this forum originally.  I am not understanding this recent massive rise in prices for preowned IM cars.  I am not suggesting the prices aren't worth it, as the saying does go "value is what people are willing to pay", but I am curious to see what occurs with pricing as time goes on. Personally I think it's a blip and think (hope) pricing will come back to relatively normal conditions.

I would suggest also checking out Vintage Motorcars out of California (NOT Vintage Speedsters in AZ).  The VM builds are excellent and I am now starting to see them for sale here in our Canadian market for around the $75k price, so US pricing should be in the $50k to $60k area.

Good luck and enjoy whatever you buy once you find "the one".

I think the IM value increase is one-part "they're not making them anymore", and one part "BAT Effect"...meaning two our three deep pocketed buyers that really want a car.  I don't see these values holding long-term, in part because I'm convinced the market will decrease as more people that actually remember 356's and Speedsters start to age out of the hobby.  Won't happen tomorrow, but the number of builders that have gone under seems to be an indication of this.  IM and Vintage are very different cars...I'd focus on Beck if you really wanted a new build!

@Mark Jensen posted:

Yeah, I agree.  I bid on both of those BAT auctions, just got cold feet as I was waiting for my last financial deal to come together.  It did, but 2 weeks too late.

Other guy wants $150k.  At that point, might as well pick up an original 356 cabriolet.

$150,000.00???

That is crazy.  You can have mine for $149,999.00.

And his has a 911 drivetrain and suspension!

Vintage Motorcars has an electric speedster ready to go, asking $110k.  I mean, if I'm throwing that kind of cash down, I'd rather future proof it.  But still would prefer fit and finish of an IM.

Recent Becks are intriguing.  Maybe a Subie version, and I know they'll build Convertible Ds on request.  Really need roll up windows (either speedster or roadster) for where I am - too much heavy fog right next to the golden gate.

I love the growl of an electric car...

Houses prices, groceries, gas, used cars all went way up and are in the process of consolidating in a downward trend again.

Recessions mean toys and 2nd homes get sold first. I don't think prices are sustainable but 2+ year waits for new cars will cushion the blow for awhile yet imo

A good used 356 was $30K just a few years ago and the upper limit was aropund 50....

Having owned two IM's, still on my second,  I think they are on the high end of the builders.  I have seen some nice other builds too but we northerners were force fed Wagu for years so now we are being sold the new meatless cars.  

As to the used IM's the market has gone nuts and the value equation from my perspective is buy NEAR NEW. I cannot for the life of me figure out, how a 20 year old car is worth buying, unless mothballed for all those years be anything but a project where every system has to be gone through.  Seriously, Auctions for me, is simply a lotto system for those who have more money than brains and get caught up in the euphoria.  

Some time ago I had a friend investing with the big boys, the market tanked and the big boys rolled it into their cash flow, his cash flow could not support it so he had to bail.

I feel that as baby boomers move along there will be a new lotto on estate sales ... if you can weight that long.  

I think the real value equation if you must have an IM is to advertise your desire to buy a recent build with the options you want.  Maybe a Carlisle trip or other C&C with other car lovers who know the speedster / roadster market is warranted and then you should know if the speedster or roadster is what you need for your body shape.

Enough said, patience is required have fun. @Mark Jensen

@IaM-Ray posted

As to the used IM's the market has gone nuts and the value equation from my perspective is buy NEAR NEW. I cannot for the life of me figure out, how a 20 year old car is worth buying, unless mothballed for all those years be anything but a project where every system has to be gone through.  

Please be kind to others Ray and show some modicum of respect and flexibility. Not everyone can tout that they live in Rockliffe, Canada like you among a bunch of Wagu eating Ambassadors of the world. We've partied at Gordon Giffin's place there and had a great time.

Would you allow..." different strokes for other folks " just a bit ?  I had a lot of fun with my older IM Speedster and did some stuff with it that few others would, could or did.

My older IM Speedster ( 1977 build ) was bought for a paltry  $6,500  USD in Boise, Idaho around 2010 and driven home to the South end of Ottawa. After many miles and then the wreck, then the rebuild via insurance funding, my total investment of net cost was about $3,500 CAD and that netted me a profit of $17,500 CAD at that time of sale. Not too bad of an investment right then.  The only reason I sold my Speedster ( with a fresh Frankenmotor ) was because I just bought a refurbished 1992 IM Roadster via Henry for $25,000 CAD in 2018. 2332 cc. by Darren Krewenchuk. I took delivery of that in Vancouver and my Wife and I drove it home to Ottawa. So, in fact I'm driving a " not too bad" IM Roadster for about a total investment of about $7,500 CAD. Not sure what it would bring right now and I don't care. I may suffer from low standards but we have lot's of fun.

And like those two  ladies said to my Brother and I at a joint in Montreal late one night ...(Bob Gainey was with us too) ....vous n'etes pas normaux.... :-)

Actually David, sorry if my tone was perceived as harsh or that I don't respect others choices I meant no disrespect to others or their choice and it wasn't said to offend, truly.   I was simply confessing my inability to understand how they could give a value that high, that was achieved on the bidding web site to a car of that age.  

BTW< I think you got a stellar alignment when your newer used IM came into the picture, and it was priced right for the market.  Also, your original car with your skills turned out to be quite a nice car and to your taste.  I have learned to appreciate all the cars on this list even if some choices would not be mine. There is a build for everyones budget as well, at least there used to be for all walks of life including colonels,  to rocket scientist

IaM Ray, looks to me like you were pointing out the obvious. Nothing disrespectful about that.

@Jim Gilbert - Madison, Mississippi posted:

IaM Ray, looks to me like you were pointing out the obvious. Nothing disrespectful about that.

But it's true that these silly little cars are going for crazy prices these days, regardless of being old or new.  And older ones may require just a tad more work.

And David, what the H is Wagu?  And who is Gordon Griffin? 

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/what-is-wagyu/

expensive steak !  

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

But it's true that these silly little cars are going for crazy prices these days, regardless of being old or new.  And older ones may require just a tad more work.

And David, what the H is Wagu?  And who is Gordon Griffin? 

Gordon Giffen was the US Ambassador to Canada a while back. My Wife was on the board of Directors for the American Wine Society here in town and we'd get invited to some pretty posh parties back in the day. He'd throw a party and bring in the Charlie Daniels Band just for a hoot. We learned a lot about Lynchburg Lemonade with him too.

@IaM-Ray posted:

https://www.tasteofhome.com/article/what-is-wagyu/

expensive steak !  

So that's why I hadn't heard of it! 

@Bob: IM S6 posted:

So that's why I hadn't heard of it!

Striploin is my favourite cut and it is not that expensive  .  

@IaM-Ray posted:

Striploin is my favourite cut and it is not that expensive  .  

Somehow I feel that we need @Butcher Boy to put in his 2 cents here. What say you, Dave?

@David Stroud IM Roadster D posted:

Gordon Giffen was the US Ambassador to Canada a while back. My Wife was on the board of Directors for the American Wine Society here in town and we'd get invited to some pretty posh parties back in the day. He'd throw a party and bring in the Charlie Daniels Band just for a hoot. We learned a lot about Lynchburg Lemonade with him too.

Well. Nothing says "posh" like the Charlie Daniels Band.

Normally, to encounter such high-tone entertainment, one must attend a biker rally or perhaps a Punkin Chunk.

@Michael Pickett posted:

Somehow I feel that we need @Butcher Boy to put in his 2 cents here. What say you, Dave?

As a 4th generation butcher, I will say that there are many great cut of meat. As for beef cuts, my favorite is a ribeye. However the New York strip is my second pick. If I'm really hungry I'll go for a thick Porterhouse steak which includes both the New York and FiIet Mignon. I like a well marbled steak with fat that adds a lot of flavor and helps sear the steak when cooking. Like Danny described awhile back, pan sear and finish in the oven is near perfect style of cooking a great steak. If that isn't available and you can grill over a wood fire, that's my choice. Also never cook any steak over medium rare period ......... There you go Mike !

@Butcher Boy posted:

As a 4th generation butcher, I will say that there are many great cut of meat. As for beef cuts, my favorite is a ribeye. However the New York strip is my second pick. If I'm really hungry I'll go for a thick Porterhouse steak which includes both the New York and FiIet Mignon. I like a well marbled steak with fat that adds a lot of flavor and helps sear the steak when cooking. Like Danny described awhile back, pan sear and finish in the oven is near perfect style of cooking a great steak. If that isn't available and you can grill over a wood fire, that's my choice. Also never cook any steak over medium rare period ......... There you go Mike !

Thanks, Dave. Any thoughts on Wagyu?

@Michael Pickett posted:

Thanks, Dave. Any thoughts on Wagyu?

Yes, Wagyu beef is excellent !! It's very fatty and rich. You can't really enjoy it like a USDA Prime steak and is meant to be enjoyed in smaller servings. There are different types of Wagyu beef. There is domestic Wagyu and imported. The imported Wagyu from Japan is highly prized and is big bucks. We carry both types in our store. The domestic Wagyu cattle are crossbreed and are less marbled than the cuts from Japan. The highest grade from Japan is called 5A and can be over $200.00 a pound for a New York steak. I like to slice it very thin and cook it in a hot seasoned broth for a few seconds just to melt the fatty goodness. Or you can thin slice it and sear it for a few seconds in a hot pan. It very rick and silky, but too much of it can cause you to seek a restroom soon. Like foie gras, you only need a small amount to satisfy the goodness.

@Butcher Boy posted:

As a 4th generation butcher, I will say that there are many great cut of meat. As for beef cuts, my favorite is a ribeye. However the New York strip is my second pick. If I'm really hungry I'll go for a thick Porterhouse steak which includes both the New York and FiIet Mignon. I like a well marbled steak with fat that adds a lot of flavor and helps sear the steak when cooking. Like Danny described awhile back, pan sear and finish in the oven is near perfect style of cooking a great steak. If that isn't available and you can grill over a wood fire, that's my choice. Also never cook any steak over medium rare period ......... There you go Mike !

Have you tried the new or old Schwank Grills, they seem to be the cats meow, MOO

https://schwankgrills.com/?mat...ontent=Schwank%20BBQ

One of my fondest work memories is hazing a new vendor sales guy (IBM).  He wanted to try and win the business over a dinner, so I suggested a high end steakhouse.  And ordered a $1600 4 oz Waygu steak.  The look on this 20-something guy's face knowing he'd have to try and expense it was priceless.

We were going to end up giving them the deal anyway, and he made big bucks on the commission.  But still..... I relish telling him I was a key "steak" holder and he needed me on board. :-)

Well at least you steered him the right way.

You tech customers are tough!   While a lot of our customers ended up at the Capital Grill in Boston or Providence (not my first choice), we took a lot of them to la Dolce Vita in Boston’s famous North End.  Franco, the owner, typically did a great job on a 3 or 4 course dinner for 8 - 10 people and the sales guy would have to write off an $8K - $10K expense at the end of a $25 - $40K overall customer visit including air fare, limos and hotel.  Considering that those customers typically were looking to buy $20+ million of our stuff, an $8K dinner for the decision makers was mice nuts in comparison.

Then there were customers like @Michael Pickett whom we usually took to Applebee’s for Happy Hour…….   🙄

@Butcher Boy

Dave!  Neither Kathy nor I can tolerate beef anymore at all, so for that very rare instance when we want red meat we go to American Bison (usually from Ted Turner’s Montana ranch).  Do you have any recommendations on sources and cuts for Bison?  

We usually follow the Danny P method of quick sear and then finish off in the oven and treat it as a Tuscan Steak, only Bison.

@Gordon Nichols posted:

@Butcher Boy

Dave!  Neither Kathy nor I can tolerate beef anymore at all, so for that very rare instance when we want red meat we go to American Bison (usually from Ted Turner’s Montana ranch).  Do you have any recommendations on sources and cuts for Bison?  

We usually follow the Danny P method of quick sear and then finish off in the oven and treat it as a Tuscan Steak, only Bison.

Gordon, I would say the cuts are the same for Bison as they are for beef. Bison ribeyes are hard to beat. Bison ribeyes are a lot like beef ribeyes. A little less marbling, but almost as tender. Because Bison have a heavy shoulder area, most of the tender cuts are limited. The New York strip and ribeye on a Bison is rather small compared to the rest of the carcass, that's why it is so expensive, save goes for the tenderloin. The rest of the animal is stew, pot roast, burger and jerky material.

About the Tuscan style steak, also know as a Porterhouse cut is also available in a Bison. You just need to find a meat market where they would order a whole loin of bison and have them cut it the thickness of the steak you want. We buy from wholesalers but I'm sure there are folks on line that will do mail order.  Hope that helps.

@IaM-Ray posted:

Have you tried the new or old Schwank Grills, they seem to be the cats meow, MOO

https://schwankgrills.com/?mat...ontent=Schwank%20BBQ

Ray, I haven't tried the Schwankgrill yet. I'm kinda old school and stick to what I know ....

Looks like a nice way to cook steak and get a Restaurant style results.

Supposedly once you get one of those your done with other ways of cooking a steak. Their burners are above and you can sear the steak both sides and lock the juices in and extra flow to the bottom tray so you collect "au jus" for use after.  The sear is supposedly so quick to crust the steak at 1500 degrees.  It is the new fad I think, pretty Swanky

For those of you who pan sear first, then finish in the oven…have you tried the reverse sear?  Start with a low temp oven bake (with the steaks sitting on a wire rack set on a cookie sheet) to partially cook, then finish with a pan sear.  The steak surfaces will dry a bit during the oven bake which helps the final sear to come out quite lovely.  If you enjoy a bit of basting during oven-last cooking method, then the reverse sear may not be for you.  If you want to try the reverse sear you can add a bit of compound butter on top of each cut just after you are done searing.  The butter will coat nicely by the time the steaks have rested.

I think I know what I’m having for dinner tomorrow.

I think this is the first thread drift that has made me gain weight.