Jim
Thanks a million for that link, I'm checking it out as we speak, I don't know how I missed that. But I'm very glad that you pointed it out.
I've found 2 projects that seem to have tailed off with no real closure on the subject. This will not happen with mine, we may be a bit slow this side of the globe, but we get it done.
Thanks again.
- G
Gary,
more recent and photos by Jake as to what he is doing re the 4 cam cooling look
http://spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=10157&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
more recent and photos by Jake as to what he is doing re the 4 cam cooling look
http://spyderclub.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=10157&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Here are some thoughts I posted about the system that Ibrahim has made for the pushrod 356 engine over on the Spyderclub this morning.
I want to be VERY CLEAR that my development of this system is totally different than Ibrahims in every way. I commend him for what he did with the system, but when someone can afford 8K for a cooling system for their replica his system will be a very big consideration. His system is so perfect that it supersedes the authenticity of any replica Porsche car with a VW powerplant..
To date I don't believe that much more than a few field tests with nominal dat acquisition have been utilized by Ibrahim to see the effectiveness of what he has created. This is acceptable for a museum quality component like he has created, but it is not a characteristic of the things I develop in my lab and through my field testing.
Now you guys know why I spent a week in Indiana at Special Edition gathering baseline data from my current cooling system placed onto a Type 1 performance engine back in August. That data will be used as a control throughout the development- No corners cut, no dollar spared.
"The system you have mentioned is an excelent reproduction of the original shroud, the parts that Kuzu has made were at Bill's sjop and I have seen them and took pictures of them. Kuzu put a ton of effort in correctness but didn't share my desire in making a system that functions better than it looks.
The downside to all the correctness and etc is cost, my system will rival the cost of a 911 style shroud due to the standardized production we use and the fact that all parts for it will be made with production in mind as well as fit, finish and most of all practicality and effectiveness
YThis means that the average person with an average wallet can afford to purchase one of these units when they order their new engine. The system Kuzu came up with costs more than most complete engines and it is worth every penny of that to the guys that need 100% correctness....
But, lets face it... The cars the guys on this forum own are replicas, they will never be anything more than that so they deserve a cooling system that enhances their originality to the untrained eye, or grabs the attention of the trained eye for 5 seconds longer than pipping the bonnet and seeing a VW engine.
Hell, most people never get to see a 4 acam engine! They don't know what the case looks like, don't know what the heads look like or relate to the appearance of the infamous engine in any way other than that beautiful dual inlet fan and bulbous characteristic of the shroud... Those are the guys that will wonder what the hell you actually have!!
There is no use in creating an over zealous, over priced 100% replica of the carrera shroud if the engine it sits atop is to be used in a replica Porsche. Doing so only slightly increases the amount of time needed for most people to figure out it's still a VW engine under the bonnet while costing 4X as much and settling for something that looks the part better than playing the part...
Anything I create is being developed with fit and function as the primary goals of the development, most of the time looks are very, very secondary or not considered at all. The X4CS development will be the first time that any cosmetic appeal has played any role what so ever in what I have created...
The end result will be a mix of originality, affordability, practicality and effectiveness."
I want to be VERY CLEAR that my development of this system is totally different than Ibrahims in every way. I commend him for what he did with the system, but when someone can afford 8K for a cooling system for their replica his system will be a very big consideration. His system is so perfect that it supersedes the authenticity of any replica Porsche car with a VW powerplant..
To date I don't believe that much more than a few field tests with nominal dat acquisition have been utilized by Ibrahim to see the effectiveness of what he has created. This is acceptable for a museum quality component like he has created, but it is not a characteristic of the things I develop in my lab and through my field testing.
Now you guys know why I spent a week in Indiana at Special Edition gathering baseline data from my current cooling system placed onto a Type 1 performance engine back in August. That data will be used as a control throughout the development- No corners cut, no dollar spared.
"The system you have mentioned is an excelent reproduction of the original shroud, the parts that Kuzu has made were at Bill's sjop and I have seen them and took pictures of them. Kuzu put a ton of effort in correctness but didn't share my desire in making a system that functions better than it looks.
The downside to all the correctness and etc is cost, my system will rival the cost of a 911 style shroud due to the standardized production we use and the fact that all parts for it will be made with production in mind as well as fit, finish and most of all practicality and effectiveness
YThis means that the average person with an average wallet can afford to purchase one of these units when they order their new engine. The system Kuzu came up with costs more than most complete engines and it is worth every penny of that to the guys that need 100% correctness....
But, lets face it... The cars the guys on this forum own are replicas, they will never be anything more than that so they deserve a cooling system that enhances their originality to the untrained eye, or grabs the attention of the trained eye for 5 seconds longer than pipping the bonnet and seeing a VW engine.
Hell, most people never get to see a 4 acam engine! They don't know what the case looks like, don't know what the heads look like or relate to the appearance of the infamous engine in any way other than that beautiful dual inlet fan and bulbous characteristic of the shroud... Those are the guys that will wonder what the hell you actually have!!
There is no use in creating an over zealous, over priced 100% replica of the carrera shroud if the engine it sits atop is to be used in a replica Porsche. Doing so only slightly increases the amount of time needed for most people to figure out it's still a VW engine under the bonnet while costing 4X as much and settling for something that looks the part better than playing the part...
Anything I create is being developed with fit and function as the primary goals of the development, most of the time looks are very, very secondary or not considered at all. The X4CS development will be the first time that any cosmetic appeal has played any role what so ever in what I have created...
The end result will be a mix of originality, affordability, practicality and effectiveness."
Some very valid points made there Jake, I agree 100% that at the end of the day it shouldn't fool someone into thinking it's something that it's not, just make them look a bit longer. Price is of a HUGE concern to us as well, the whole system needs to be priced fairly cheaply.
Jake, is there currently something wrong with the type 4 store?
I'm ready to order some stuff, but there's no reply to my request for the shipping cost.
Jake, is there currently something wrong with the type 4 store?
I'm ready to order some stuff, but there's no reply to my request for the shipping cost.
Gary,
Saw your order come through- Thanks..
Our servers are being swapped and it's causing intermittent issues with everything from email to order tracking.. But we have back ups that are working well..
Saw your order come through- Thanks..
Our servers are being swapped and it's causing intermittent issues with everything from email to order tracking.. But we have back ups that are working well..
No problem, I was just a bit nervous giving credit card details over the net........
Thanks for looking into that for me. Appreciate it.
- G
Thanks for looking into that for me. Appreciate it.
- G
Anyone interested ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-356-4-Cam-Generator-Stand_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ017QQitemZ4624258767
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsche-356-4-Cam-Generator-Stand_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ017QQitemZ4624258767
Thanks Jake, it arrived yesterday, I'll be using you guys again for some more stuff in the new year. Now if only I could get a cam/ gear through you guys as well.
Awesome packing by the way, I had to open it from the bottom as it ws the easier option.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/flatfourfan/Type4.jpg
Awesome packing by the way, I had to open it from the bottom as it ws the easier option.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m29/flatfourfan/Type4.jpg
Gary,
My shipping department receives huge reviews from our outstanding packaging!!! Glad yours was a classic example of this.
I can set you up with a cam and etc, but will only do so if you equip the engine with my required valve train updates for the cam and RPM range that the components will create.
This is why i removed cams from my retail line up, way too much misconfiguration was going on prior to this.
My shipping department receives huge reviews from our outstanding packaging!!! Glad yours was a classic example of this.
I can set you up with a cam and etc, but will only do so if you equip the engine with my required valve train updates for the cam and RPM range that the components will create.
This is why i removed cams from my retail line up, way too much misconfiguration was going on prior to this.
Jake, we'll talk in the new year, I have a few items to keep IMPI busy till then.
A Real Quad Cam Motor, VW / Subaru combo
unreal
unreal
Attachments
Images (1)
No, it's not real...
It uses a radiator...
It uses a radiator...
You mean water cooled heads, and it really runs?
- or -
The whole thing is just a mock-up?
- or -
The whole thing is just a mock-up?
David,
This should answer your question.
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=93249
This should answer your question.
http://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=93249
We're still on it.......South Africa has had some minor Electrcity issues over the last month or so and that's affected my engine builder as he works day time for the Mines and they've been cut back by 80%.
Stay tuned...........this is being done.
Stay tuned...........this is being done.
I imagine this is too little, too late, but hey:
http://www.scaleautoworks.com/356fourcam.html
http://www.scaleautoworks.com/356fourcam.html
Believe it or not those were some of the first pictures that I found.
Amazing detail.......
Amazing detail.......
That hobbyist still has a way to go to match that dude who built a scale model of a Ferrari (I forget what the scale was), with an engine that actually fires up! THAT was awesome.
Still, if I had an extra $5K laying around, it would be COOL to have that Carrera motor on my office credenza!
Still, if I had an extra $5K laying around, it would be COOL to have that Carrera motor on my office credenza!
Wasn't that the ferrari dude that Jerremy Clarkson interviewed? I think it's on youtube.
Everytime I here someone say its not the "money", its ALWAYS about the MONEY. 2) Its not to FOOL someone into thinking it something its not, but... it ALWAYS is to fool someone. Its ok , just dont bullshit us.
hey???
what you on about?
what you on about?
Thought that you guys would like an update on this.
Both the cam and the followers have arrived, so now the sub can finally be assembled. Yup, this is going slow, but at least it's going.
Both the cam and the followers have arrived, so now the sub can finally be assembled. Yup, this is going slow, but at least it's going.
Gary - Full speed ahead with the project. Hope it all comes together as you planned! I'm sure most of us on here would like to see progress pics as well.
Peace - Out!
Peace - Out!
Jim
Up till now there aren't really any exciting pictures as it's just engine building time. When the fun starts, I'll be sure to post pictures.
Up till now there aren't really any exciting pictures as it's just engine building time. When the fun starts, I'll be sure to post pictures.
Cool! Hope you have fun showing off your car at the car show this weekend!!
Peace - Out!
Peace - Out!
Update: Yeah I know finally hey.........lol.
I received my camshaft back from Van Der Linde Developments who did the work on the camshaft and followers for me. Cam is cut to the same specs as the webcam 86a. 276. Should be nice. This with the cam bearings and main and rod bearings mean that the motor can be placed together.
Work has also started on the actual fan shroud with the placement of the vanes, we're staying as close to VW's specs as possible to avoid any issues. No pics on that yet as we would like to save something until it's all done.
Mock-up has started on the intake manifolds though, stock T4 manifolds are being used for the injector positions, The carbs are mounted on top to get an overall feel for what we're doing, my engine builder is currently working on 3 other motors, so it's a waiting game for me.
Very rough at the moment, so bear with us.
I received my camshaft back from Van Der Linde Developments who did the work on the camshaft and followers for me. Cam is cut to the same specs as the webcam 86a. 276. Should be nice. This with the cam bearings and main and rod bearings mean that the motor can be placed together.
Work has also started on the actual fan shroud with the placement of the vanes, we're staying as close to VW's specs as possible to avoid any issues. No pics on that yet as we would like to save something until it's all done.
Mock-up has started on the intake manifolds though, stock T4 manifolds are being used for the injector positions, The carbs are mounted on top to get an overall feel for what we're doing, my engine builder is currently working on 3 other motors, so it's a waiting game for me.
Very rough at the moment, so bear with us.
Attachments
Images (1)
I know that I have been quiet, but I assure you that this build is going to impress.
When the local currency took a dip to the US $, we decided to contact a local maker for the valves.
A local company that makes stainless valves for race engines approached us that they could make pretty much anything that we wanted at a good price.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4326/dsci0010hm1.jpg
Made from new stainless steel forgings (unleaded compatible)
the sizes are 8mm for intake stems and 9mm for exhaust stems.
The sizes that my builder chose are 36 Exhaust and 42 intake, which is conservative, but for what we're building it's spot on.
The biggest advantage of these local valves are the fact that my builder had the tips hardened to rockwell 80 which means that lash caps or swivel foots are now optional and not an absolute necessity for these babies.
They also fit standard keepers as well as valve retainers.
This motor is going to be a nice build, total cost all in all for everything should be in the 2K mark. Stay tuned.
When the local currency took a dip to the US $, we decided to contact a local maker for the valves.
A local company that makes stainless valves for race engines approached us that they could make pretty much anything that we wanted at a good price.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/4326/dsci0010hm1.jpg
Made from new stainless steel forgings (unleaded compatible)
the sizes are 8mm for intake stems and 9mm for exhaust stems.
The sizes that my builder chose are 36 Exhaust and 42 intake, which is conservative, but for what we're building it's spot on.
The biggest advantage of these local valves are the fact that my builder had the tips hardened to rockwell 80 which means that lash caps or swivel foots are now optional and not an absolute necessity for these babies.
They also fit standard keepers as well as valve retainers.
This motor is going to be a nice build, total cost all in all for everything should be in the 2K mark. Stay tuned.
Wow.......
Really nice, Gary!
gn
Really nice, Gary!
gn
This has to be one of the longest engines builds ever..........lol.
Started 9/11/2007, Should hopefully have it done by June.....08, I think.
Started 9/11/2007, Should hopefully have it done by June.....08, I think.
Ya mean '09, right?
Gary - great project progress! I have no doubt the end product will be very cool! Looking forward to seeing it.
Peace - Out!
Peace - Out!
oops yeah, I mean 09..............I hope.
And we have an update:
Bear in mind that these pics aren't even being shown loally as we're trying to keep it all hush hush for the locals until the day that the car hits the circuit. So consider yourselves lucky.
Here is the initial mock-up. Showing the inner section of the fan. I'll explain now how this is going to work.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9562/speedster001zr5.jpg
Like I said, this is the inner section. This is based of my engine builders own type 4 upright conversion that has been proven ages ago, what's nice about the 4 cam design is that it's wider, so the generator is going to be mounted on a custom stand and surrounding the whole lot will be a 4 cam style cover that will make it look like it's a whole lot chunkier than it actually is. This will included the generator stand and the trim that makes it look like a 4 cam air intake, front and back, the front will be fake, it'll work like a normal type 1.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3629/speedster005xi7.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1221/speedster004qy6.jpg
You can see the ductwork where he has started for the oil cooler on the lower LHS, all of this ductwork will be hidden once the faux cover is mounted above.
The intake manifolds have been fabbed as well as most of the internal fan set-up. What's nice about using his old design is that it's all proven already and with the fake cover fabbed up it'll look the part.
And the best part, it's a one off, he's not going to be making anymore for anyone as the amount of work and design that has gone into it.
This is early days yet and hopefully next time I go through, I should ave some more pics and updates.
Lemme know what you think?
- G
Bear in mind that these pics aren't even being shown loally as we're trying to keep it all hush hush for the locals until the day that the car hits the circuit. So consider yourselves lucky.
Here is the initial mock-up. Showing the inner section of the fan. I'll explain now how this is going to work.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9562/speedster001zr5.jpg
Like I said, this is the inner section. This is based of my engine builders own type 4 upright conversion that has been proven ages ago, what's nice about the 4 cam design is that it's wider, so the generator is going to be mounted on a custom stand and surrounding the whole lot will be a 4 cam style cover that will make it look like it's a whole lot chunkier than it actually is. This will included the generator stand and the trim that makes it look like a 4 cam air intake, front and back, the front will be fake, it'll work like a normal type 1.
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3629/speedster005xi7.jpg
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/1221/speedster004qy6.jpg
You can see the ductwork where he has started for the oil cooler on the lower LHS, all of this ductwork will be hidden once the faux cover is mounted above.
The intake manifolds have been fabbed as well as most of the internal fan set-up. What's nice about using his old design is that it's all proven already and with the fake cover fabbed up it'll look the part.
And the best part, it's a one off, he's not going to be making anymore for anyone as the amount of work and design that has gone into it.
This is early days yet and hopefully next time I go through, I should ave some more pics and updates.
Lemme know what you think?
- G
DANG!!! That is going to look very cool!
Wow.....
Really nice!
gn
Really nice!
gn
Seems like I'm repeating myself on here...Just goes to show how slick that engine is coming out.
I'm truly impressed with the fabrication capabilities of your builder. It's not often that you find someone who is willing to take on that level of "one-offmanship" and make it happen.
Gordon
I'm truly impressed with the fabrication capabilities of your builder. It's not often that you find someone who is willing to take on that level of "one-offmanship" and make it happen.
Gordon
I agree 100% Gord, the tradeoff from my side is that I'm waiting a long time for it all to come together, but that is a good thing, because it gives me time to buy stuff, so that way I'm not noticing all the money flying out of my account all at one shot.
I'm still missing a few things that I'll have to get soon enough. 2 x dizzy's (1 fake) 96mm type 4 piston rings and valve springs, after that I think he has everything to re-do the sub assembly. Then I'm going to start shopping around for my choice of ECU. Should be the last big ticket item with the exception of the exhaust.
Stay tuned.
I'm still missing a few things that I'll have to get soon enough. 2 x dizzy's (1 fake) 96mm type 4 piston rings and valve springs, after that I think he has everything to re-do the sub assembly. Then I'm going to start shopping around for my choice of ECU. Should be the last big ticket item with the exception of the exhaust.
Stay tuned.
Simon Hambly (shambly) found an ECU somewhere in the UK that he likes a lot. See if he's around on email. simon.hamblyANTIVIRAL@virgin.net
ecu?---how about this
http://www.msefi.com/viewforum.php?f=92&sid=fa62bc18d7cd198a7d160ea5785ca179
http://www.msefi.com/viewforum.php?f=92&sid=fa62bc18d7cd198a7d160ea5785ca179
My ECU will either be Go-tech or Dicktator, both local made items. I was looking at megasquirt a while ago, but for what it all would cost me at the end of the day, buying a unit locally with back-up is a bonus.
http://www.dicktator.co.za/
I've used dicktator on a Honda Civic that I used to own a few years back and man it's a great unit, priced at about R2100/ $200 it's HUGE value for money for a standalone EFI.
http://www.gotech.co.za/
These guys are pretty much found on ALL local VW conversions, so working with my polo distributor will probably mean that I'll go this route, the bonus is that there is a great tuner for Go-tech in the same town as my engine builder, so he'll know the ins and outs. Price is about the same as the dicktator.
http://www.dicktator.co.za/
I've used dicktator on a Honda Civic that I used to own a few years back and man it's a great unit, priced at about R2100/ $200 it's HUGE value for money for a standalone EFI.
http://www.gotech.co.za/
These guys are pretty much found on ALL local VW conversions, so working with my polo distributor will probably mean that I'll go this route, the bonus is that there is a great tuner for Go-tech in the same town as my engine builder, so he'll know the ins and outs. Price is about the same as the dicktator.